Pickle

@Murph For your information, corestaff reached me and they informed me that this suggestion is denied. So you do not have to reply this post.
 
Now I do not understand why you are so hostile against a suggestion here but remember you are a spartan, please behave like one.

That's your full context Pickle... You specifically state that the mission being infantry based can be spoiled by the usage of these weapons in such a manner as to start targeting Infantry or other targets that you don't feel it is appropriate to use those weapon systems on.  A titan has the anti-personnel (AP) capability in the same manner as the MAAWS, however most people (I have encountered and I know one exception) won't take AP as it's a waste of an AT or AA missile slot, and the vehicle/airframe is often the bigger threat.
 
What comes over is you are not playing the game my way so therefore it is wrong.  The capability for LAT/RAT to function in stand off infantry killer is in the game by default (HE missile/rockets) and therefore is meant to be used in that role.  The same is applicable to armour in that they have anti infantry weapons (usually a co-ax 7.62) and some form of HE munition, this is default and the intent of the game for these assets to have a degree of tactical flexibility.
 
Specifically in this limited frame it's not abuse by players, it's design by Bohemia.
 
 
Yes.  It's a force multiplier, use it.  Some of the best sessions, and my screenshot library, are filled with times when we got a squad in a platoon of vis and just wrecked face... because it's fun.
 
When I'm on the ground and see a vic opening up I'm usually the one cheering and saying "[insert expletive] get some sunshine!", because it is cool watching vehicles going at it in gunnery duels whilst infantry duck and weave advancing onto an AO.  That disappointment and panic when the vic on overwatch goes boom, and suddenly you are trying to find where the shot came from, was it a vic was it infantry.  This is why I keep coming back to EU 1, it's combined arms and more importantly it's balanced.
 
Trust me, a coordinated mechanised platoon (4x APCs) supported by an element of attack helos is overpowered and destroys anything in it's path before infantry sections even get a chance to dismount.  This is EU 1, you will always lack cohesion to fully exploit the advantage of the asset,  A single MBT is not going to steal all your action in an AO.
 
At first glance it seems like your saying your fun is more important than the vehicle crews or even people who play ARMA for the Michael Bay moments. You're a spartan so I know that's not the case.
 
 
I'm not military current or past.  You are wanting to introduce a rule to say vehicles can not engage non launcher equipped infantry.  You also want to introduce a rule about not engaging buildings directly.  If there is a guy in a building with a launcher firing at you, there will be ambiguity about whether a vehicle crew can engage.  If people don't know the rule then they can't follow it, if there needs to be a list of situational exceptions it's a bad rule.
 
This is why uncalled CAS works.  Was it an air to ground strike yes/no.  If no, it's not CAS so don't worry.  If yes was it called in in a public way so the players could avoid casualties yes/no.  If yes it's not uncalled, if no it's uncalled CAS.  There is no Grey Area, the rules you propose leave a lot of room for interpretation.  Hence my example of a player being worried about being kicked for engaging a building than having fun and potentially impacting on the other players in the vehicle too.
 
There has to be a motivation of is this going to foster teamwork and increase the fun for the players.  If the answer is no to either then we need to consider carefully about whether to implement it.  I think that this will not foster teamwork or be fun for players in those roles, and if we place restrictions on vehicle crews and people in LAT/RAT (and SL/TL slots, I believe they have access to the MAAWS/PCML, now I think about it) slots, it could potentially backfire in the long run with those slots being avoided or the player base finding other servers to play on where such restrictions are not imposed. I&A3 is public , not a uniquely AW, asset.
 
 
It's not about rep with members of the community.  It's about experience within the role that will be affected by the proposed changes.  My background for ARMA is infantry and mechanised because that's what I love doing in game.  If I were to propose a change to a vehicle role I would talk to Patrick_Swe, JJ Cakes, Norris, because they are the ones who I know have a lot of time and experience in that role and are people with whom I know I can have a conversation with.  That's all I'm saying get a few points of view of people who will be affected before going out on a limb and requesting a significant change.
 
 
I will take this as English not being your first language, it comes over really poorly mate.
 
 
Pure humour bud.
 
 
It's an MBT, they can be killed very easily.
 
The Merkava especially as it has the shell trap on it's front, lost more than enough slammers with Patrick to that weak spot so I needed to start bringing barbecue sauce.  T-140 is the turret, Kuma is the rear half of the side plates and top armour.  The threat from an MBT is it's guns and movement, neutralise them its a moving pillbox or fixed gun position.
 
 
Not a good idea to refer to the player base like that... they keep the server going... referring to them (even in part) as abusers is bad form at the least and open to misinterpretation.
 
 
That was your suggestion for application of the rule.  Selective enforcement.  Either we enforce the rules or we don't there can be no ambiguity, especially over stuff that can result in kick.
 
 
"HOLD ME BACK BRAH!!!! HOLD ME BACK!"  No Pickle, just don't.
 
 
So you believe in selective enforcement and application of rules, I'm curious are you also selective about which parts of the Spartan's rules to follow as well? - That's an allegation, as I have not produced anything in support of it, and one that I in no way intend other than to prove a point.
 
I'm a former criminal investigator and prosecutor.  I don't allege.  I state facts. 

There is no way of enforcing this kind of rule that doesn't involve significant human intervention, as automating is it not feasible.
 
There are people (anyone with Zeus) who can tweak the balance of gameplay, without making it a formal rule, by providing a threat to tanks etc that normal AI won't do. (Though if they are crafting a mission somewhere, they may not do so, but you will have access to a handcrafted mission very soon after so it's swings and roundabouts )
 
An organised infantry squad (hell, organised individuals even) on-server can also choose to communicate with heavy-weapons users to help them target things that are preventing the organised infantry from advancing into positions that force the heavy weapons user to cease fire.

Again with all respect, there is a confirmation bias here, I literally wrote " Everything is fine for me until this part but: I see the exact same abuse that is being done with armors. They use their HE or AP missiles to kill Every EI they can see or destroy every building in objective area." just after that sentence. Please carefully read.
 
 
 
 
This is where my question refers to. Should players use their overpowered tools until the last drop where it begins to steal fun from their "Co-Op" Team members?
 
 
 
 
Please, Please pretty Please. Read it again clearly. I have literally stated they should be allowed to engage infantry who are carrying AT. I respect the fact that you served in military, But again that is not the case I am referring to.
 
 
 
 
I felt the need of clarifying this part particularly. I believe I do not have enough reputation within old members of AW. It has been around ONE whole year that I am one of the most active players of 2020, in EU1. I do know every system, every script, every slot, every bugs that a player played in 2020 can ever know. I can even memorize how much and what types of enemies will spawn in which side mission or any kind of mission. Call me a nerd, lifeless etc. I don't care, but you can't deny the fact that I had a very long time to observe current state of game.
 
 
 
 
I have seen it more than enough. There is nothing that can kill those MBTs once they reach the number of two or three. Also I don't know if you are satire here but I meant "Shooting everything" by "Nuking AOs" I dont talk about the nuclear bomb animation in game. And duration of AO is irrelevant here, that 20 mins is usually wasted on searching the last 2 teams of enemies that was out of abusers' visual...
 
 
 
 
Yes I didn't realize he was talking about spartans at first, but if you seek for my second respond, you will see I have suggestions for that too.
 
If I am allowed to annoy others by showing off my skills, I am capable of annoying them so bad that server population will decrease to 3 - 4. Should I really be allowed to do that?
 
 
I respect if you don't have time or will to respond to my suggestions. But please do not make any irrelevant allegations about this post.
 
 
 
 

@Pickle 

I don't think we would benefit much from a rule that is enforced partially or not at all. 

"Claiming all targets" so you mean kill stealing? One of the big realisations for me in Arma was, the score board really means nothing. Pilots don't get points for transporting people in I&A3, their impact on the server is still hugely important. Their importance is not diminished at all by the lack of points, more over people will start recognizing good pilots over time.

Again UAV and CAS isn't directly comparable to the issue you have described. There is only one UAV slot and 5 pilot slots. All six of these slots are scrutinized more closely than any infantry role due to their specialized and limited nature thus I don't think you can draw a direct line between those roles and say AT or repair specialists.

In your initial suggestion you mentioned limiting the use of Armour in the main objectives, hence the suggestion to play other objectives.

I think it's better if you design the rule-set in such a way that doesn't necessarily restrict armored vehicle usage, but reinforces the co-op and combined arms aspect of I&A and the role of the vehicle.
 
- No solo crewing.
Vehicles like MBT's and APC's are to be used by a crew of two or more.
 
- APC's are also to be used as transport.
In a situation like where a new AO has spawned within driving distance, APC's in the area can be requested to provide transport.

I'm not making any comment about whether the points you raise are actual problems or if the proposed solutions are good or bad, I just have a few technical remarks:
For your first suggestion: how can it be enforced?  Making new rules is great but they need to be enforceable.  The only way I see it being enforced is by moderators and spartans basically not playing anymore and just spending their time observing the usual suspects. 
For your second suggestion, this can be implemented in such a way that it has a negligible impact on performance. 

There's one UAV op that's hardly ever taken, there's hardly ever anything that pilots can use for cas and it's really apparat when people are doing uncalled cas.  It's not so apparent when people are shooting Anti personnel missiles from a titan at infantry.  Also, enforcing infantry only at a zeus mission is also easy, you see if there's a vehicle or not. You don't have to monitor what the vehicle is shooting at. 

How would you enforce a tank shooting HE at the enemy with an AT launcher taking out several enemies in a go?

I'm going to guess the counter argument here is that they are playing their role by going out to the AO and completing the mission. Armour makes it quite easy, loading the Hunter a bit less so, mostly due to limitations of the AI. Both these strategies still require some effort and knowledge of the game, neither is really breaking CAS rules nor the rule to play ones role as I see it. I've quite often also seen AA-titans carried in the Hunters. These have been used quite effectively against air threats that would otherwise take longer to handle, thus supporting the pilots in their transport duties as well.

I will happily step in when someone is say camping an infantry factory from 1,5 km away. That I see as an clear abuse of game mechanic. Just like using the ammo truck to have an infinite ammo mortar.
 
These strategies are available to everyone, if they so choose to play. I won't but if I wanted to I could, this is all in line with the openness that is EU1. EU1 is to me an open sandbox where you are allowed to quite freely do what you like with a low bar of entry, I would not want EU1 to move to a more milsimmy experience, we got AWE and MSO for that.
 
If you feel that it is impeding your fun in the main AO, you can always move to a side or primary mission, perhaps select a support role that does not require you to run around the AO?

I am going to be quite frank here. As Spartan, I really don't want to sit and watch out for more things that could be seen as "disruption" or "breaking the rules". There is already plenty to keep busy with.
 
I also feel that the handful of players who do engage in this sort of thing as, Lindi has already commented, have gained the knowledge and experience to do so. It is impressive to keep a tank alive for so long. Plus, if a player has hit side missions until the dice has rolled for the tank he prefers, kudos to him. He deserves that tank and this usually results in a lot of other rewards sitting in the reward pool for general use. The same applies to Zeus Ops. If people get a reward and take care of it, props to them.
 
In my opinion, while no doubt this is frustrating at times for infantry, I have yet to see it be so extreme that most of an AO is cleared and people on the ground have little to do. The converse also happens where there is little to no AT and AOs stay up for far longer than normal as people struggle to take care of the armor. This is just dependent on the specific day and the players active.
 
At the end of the day, you cannot police everything and it will create a rigid environment where players will stop having fun being able to do what they do. 

In relation my my missions, I only do this because I design my missions for infantry as the players seem to get the most fun out of this and it also prevents questions or policing of players who think Zeus Ops work the same as other missions on the server. I could, for example, put together something that requires armor or mortar but this is just due to my personal preference. 

I also have to ask a question here, Piccle.  Do you not think that perhaps these things are bothering you more because you have been enjoying the more structured gameplay that EU3 offers lately and now get frustrated at the casual nature of EU1? Once you step across that line, it does become apparent how different the two environments are. 

That would be really sweet for solo players and you could singlehandedly take over an objective, which is not how you are meant to play on this server. The game mode is coop.
 
As much as I like to play Solo, it is not something that I would want to have on EU1. It would be too Overpowered.
 
I think you either mean the Game mode Warlords or Liberation where you can buy infantry with points or resources.

I get so reminiscent of @LH5 and his blue helmet. I was amazed at how much fire that thing drew from all parties! 😆

Quality of life request:
 
Put an arsenal outside the Hescos at both Last Stand and Stadium to make loading vics easier and help with preventing people running off with your ride when you're in the hangar grabbing gear.

Our modset can also always be found in MSO/Guides and Information/Current Modset:
 

Done

Any dropped item within 50m of a player will no longer get removed ....

first of all, thanks for the feedback in the ddebrief aswell, i made a few mistakes in the mission code, namely the respawn point not moving to the airfield and smaller, luckily unnoticed by you all tidbits. The missing file error you got was because i had to severly cut down on the custom sounds and more anomaly types and i accuentally cut one more in the final update of the mission, otherwise the mission file would have been 25+mb, and we all know how arma servers and mission file downloads are funky.
 
On the discussing player decisions. Well, i can, because im not in any shape of form associated with AW staff stuff, im just a simple community member and i will say things nobody likes to hear.
So i rewatched the stream from Frozt's pov, hmm... the comments from the start to the end about ditching everyone, general disrespect and just booking it, deliberately disobeying orders and deliberate lies, just disgusting. I will not make and sacrifice my own time to run another mission, hell, i wouldnt have done it in the first place if i knew this is the attitude. Specific target was "no man gets left behind". Noone. I dont care, flip the situation, how do you feel about that. This happened in the last hellenmaa mission (chads and russian invasion) that should have been a clue for me, but silly me, i thought the talks about teamwork after that incident actually meant something.
 
So i have to say this. Absolute disgrace of a behaviour Charlie. Dont you dare talk about teamwork again, i would not trust you to walk my dog, let alone work with you, or god forbid let you lead a mission from command again. If you participated, or just stayed silent in the face of that behaviour, shame on you. I will not tolerate this type of behaviour from anybody, and lucky you i had no time to closely monitor you all... otherwise i would have called the whole thing off after 15 minutes.
(one of the many disgusting behaviour on display https://clips.twitch.tv/ShortLachrymoseOysterPlanking ill leave the otherwise just berating comments out for now, stream is there you can find em all)
If you will just disrespect the community, the staff, the command, and the mission maker's efforts, why show up at all?
 
As for future ops from me, i have only 2 options left. Either i dont make any of them because of the displayed attitude will continue and just be a waste of my time, potentialy ruining everyone elses fun and invested time aswell
OR
specify that certain ppl are not allowed to participate.
 
 
BTW Charlie, you went loud after 15 minutes, because even tho you were walking in a tight column which offers great flank security and the opportunity to keep the audio footrpint as light as possible, you managed to walk up next to an unsuspecting search party withing 50 meters, ai on 5% spot accuracy started firing at you. That set off all the teams, about 150 ai were on the hunt, then you ditched the others and left them to deal with the shit you stirred up.
And the blue on blue incident? that was the russian guy NE (cant remember exactly, its on stream), you all whipped towards the friendly team on your north-ish (they were engaged by those AI on their east) and took potshots at them, they returned fire. Watch it on the stream. Frozt got the guy who hit Karate. Quick to judge and blame imo, but in light of the previous displayso n stream, cant say im surprised.
 
Compare Frozt's streams from the last op (op sidestep) and this.
 
To finish on a higher note
For Command, Alpha and Bravo, kudos great job even your flank wasnt protected. Peeling back from engagements before you get pincered, holding them off long enough to set up another hasty fighting position for covering the retreating team. Thats teamwork, and its a shame that wasnt streamed. Great work and great fun, shame it was spoiled at the end, but hopefully not ruined forever.

Mission Name:
OP Bugout (Hosted by @Gambit)
 
Server Details: 
IP: 116.202.224.207
Port: 2302
 
Mods Required:
Arma 3 Preset OP Bugout.html
 
TS address: ts.ahoyworld.net
TEAMSPEAK MISSION BRIEFING FOR ALL PLAYERS WILL BEGIN AT 19:00 UTC
Expected Mission Length: 120+ minutes (may go over or under expected mission length)
 
Player Slots: 34 (5 Squads of 6, and a 4 man command element)
 
 
Situation
The CHADS were overrun in Finland by Russian invasion, in the chaos, your platoon of CHADS were left on the ground. CHADS being CHADS, established a series of safehouses along a potential escape route. After regrouping at one of the safehouses, your task is to check on the other safehouses, if survivors managed their way there, fold them in and get out. All the while the Russians are searching and chasing. 
 
Assets:
what you can find along the way
 
 
Friendly Forces:
CHADS
 
Enemy Forces:
Russians and unknown
 

Civilians:
Civilian presence unknown
 
Mission
Regroup at a safehouse, then check for survivors at other safehouse locations, then make your way to the airfield, liberate whatever you can and get out of the area. E&E time boys.
 
 
Execution
Objectives:
1.Check on multiple safehouse locations
2.Make your way to the airfield, see what you can liberate and use it to get the hell out
 
Movement Plan:
At Commanders discretion
 
Rules of Engagement:
Escape & Evasion rules apply, try not to give away your position too early.
Civilians are present in the area so collateral damage and civilian visual contact is to be kept to a minimum.
 
 
Admin & Logistics
 
Equipment & Resupply:
At the commander’s control, assets are available at base to facilitate this.
 
Reinforcements:
Unlimited
At commanders discretion, transport assets are available.
 
 
Command & Control
 
Command:
Overall command lays with codename "Overlord" who will set objectives and ROE.
Operational control on the ground lies with the Platoon Commander.
 
Communication:
Radio channels are set for each element and can be viewed as part of the Diary accessible through the map . Platoon has limited discretion for change but structure is to be maintained. 

Thanks for the suggestion Pickle. 
The staff team will discuss this request when we are looking to alter the modset.
I will get back to you once this has been discussed.

This has some great potential for side objectives or bespoke missions. 
 
Great find cheers Pickle.

Mod name is 'Knock People Unconscious', It allows players to knock out other players and AI by using a binded key or ACE interaction menu, knocking people doesn't deal any damage.
 
Links:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=906758817&searchtext=knock+people
https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/190414-knock-people-unconscious/
 
Actually handcuffing AI is giving us more than this mod can give. However, If handcuffed AI is not surrendering (Handcuffed when unconscious or someone ran to them and managed to cuff) it gives away player positions constantly and all the AI in AOs start marching towards players. Additionally, It gives players a chance to taste melee combat in ArmA. Also sometimes civillians keep running in middle of firefights and end up dying.
 
With this mod we can make ArmA feel like an actual game, level up stealth gameplay by keeping POWs unaware and we can keep civillians down. 
 
By the way, the mod was allowing players to knock out anyone including friendlies but I talked to modder and they updated the mod with some CBA settings.

An issue has been made in our system so when one of our devs has some time this will be implemented.  It's scheduled to be put in the next version but no promises. 

AW MVP 2020:
AW Most Friendly Admin/Moderator/Spartan 2020: @Whigital
AW Most Helpful Admin/Moderator/Spartan 2020: @Stanhope
AW Most Active Staff Member 2020:
AW Strictest Staff Member 2020:  
AW Best Team Player 2020: @Mikael
AW Most Helpful Member *Non Staff* 2020:
AW Most Friendly Member 2020: @Bomer
AW Tacti-cool member 2020: @Pickle
AW Underrated Member 2020: @chicken_no6
AW Most Incoherent Member 2020:
AW DAAASSS BOOOOT 2020:
AW Best Pilot 2020: @Gambit
AW Worst Pilot 2020:
AW Best Voice 2020:
AW Funniest Person on Team Speak 2020: @SiegeSix
AW Worst Joke 2020: Hi back @LH5
AW Best Moment 2020 (can be in-game, on Team Speak or Forum):
AW Best Forum Post (please put URL in): Liberation Feedback Thread, where would we be without it.
AW Dankest Meme Post In Discord 2020:
AW Best Driver 2020:
AW Worst Driver 2020:
AW Best Fail 2020: @StatusBot
AW Best Ban of 2020: Guy who got himself banned after making a ban appeal.
AW Team Speak Channel 2020: Setup Room - AWE
AW Best Screen Shot 2020:
AW Best/Worst Call-out 2020: chris (Don't know which one it is on the forums, but he kept thinking his fridge was a vehicle)
AW Candidate for the Hague 2020:
AW Role Model 2020: @SiegeSix
 
I'll add others later, hopefully.