Munic

Hey guys,
 
I know it's something that has popped up in the past (did a search on several keywords, but couldn't find any hits, though?) so I'm just revisiting the topic of making I&A set up to have players fight against players. Could be a future update of current I&A3 on EU #1 or #2, a new development on a separate server alongside the regular I&A, something for AWE or entirely dismissed. The powers that be have final say.
 
So, first things first, why?
1) Main reason (every time probably) is very simply because AI can be really dumb sometimes, and you need a human brain to close that gap. E.g. if you're far enough or when AI are garrisoned in a building, AI will never react, despite being massacred. Also in CQB, AI have some serious shortcomings...
2) The entire idea behind I&A is that the island is controlled by an enemy force, but those forces are always restricted to just the AO circle, give or take a few 100m. With human players, they could be coming from and/or set up anywhere, including somewhere outside that circle. Keeps everyone on their toes.
 
 
The way I figure it could work (open for debate):
- It's not meant to become a pure PvP. The main focus remains on the BLUE side, but a limited amount of players will be able to join the RED side. E.g. with the current 60-player limit, we could have 45 - 50 BLUE players VS normal AI and 10 -15 RED players. RED's purpose would be to hold off the BLUE attack as long as possible, not to reconquer the island.
 
- The AO's can continue as they are now, basically, without any big changes.
 
- RED would get their own main operating base, obviously far away from the BLUE MOB and with equal base protection.
 
- As RED is meant to control the island, they should have a few locations to spawn across the map. These locations could be fixed (i.e. FOBs are always active, but initially used by RED, later taken over by BLUE), built into the AO or set up manually by RED players.
 
- Random (civilian) vehicles are spawned inside towns and cities, to provide alternative ways of transport. Regular civilians could be spawned as well, if server can manage, for IFF purposes.
 
- With a total of 10 - 15 human players, RED would consist of 2 pilots and regular infantry units. The rest of the AO is filled with AI.
 
- Because of limited amount of players on RED side, there would be no distinctive separation between roles and their associated gear/capabilities, except for pilots. Everyone else would theoretically be able to revive players / repair vehicles (if they brought the appropriate backpacks) while carrying any other kind of CSAT equipment. Weight limits would obviously still apply, and for reasons of fair play, viper outfits and thermal scopes remain prohibited.
 
- RED would have no access to mortars, because there already is the artillery that spawns every so often, but they would be able to deploy unarmed UAVs and MANPADs. At this point in time, I'm still thinking about whether all RED players should be allowed to function as UAV operator, or if that's something that should also be restricted to the pilot slots...
 
- RED receives rewards when BLUE fails a side mission.
 
 
Positives:
- Above all, the human brain that is capable of things the AI just can't begin to imagine.
- A bigger challenge, more thrill and a larger sense of achievement when going up against human players.
- Variety. With a single starting point, humans can create vastly more different outcomes than AI ever could. This also holds true for equipment. One time, humans could be commandeering a civilian vehicle to get to the AO, next time they could be bringing an armed Orca, another day they could lay down IEDs on suspected ingress routes, ...
- Constant reinforcements, adding the illusion that the enemy is really trying to maintain / take control over that AO.
 
Positive or negative, depending on point of view:
- IFF, especially with CSAT equipment rewards. At present, there's a chance that a side mission gives BLUE side a Gorgon, Kajman, ... Similarly, if not overhauled, RED side could receive a Marshall, Blackfoot, .... That makes friendly fire and destruction of a reward that has just been received a real risk, especially on public servers with no / little communication.
 
Negatives:
- Theoretically, both sides could attack the enemy's MOB, or position himself in such a way that they can shoot anyone the moment they leave the base protection zone. We can only hope that is not abused. When noticed it is, Admins and Spartans can take appropriate actions, though. (rule suggestion: do not come within 1 km from enemy MOB)
- If no / few BLUE players are online, RED players may have a boring time. They could just reconnect to BLUE, though.
- RED is basically meant to be a losing force. Though I'm fairly certain most will not mind at all, I'm sure some would rather not connect at all, than to connect as RED because all BLUE slots are taken.
 
 
Your turn now.

Shame to see this happen, even if it's just for a test period... 
 
EU2 Apex was never as popular as EU1 Altis (though it sometimes came close in the 2.x days), and it had a very rough restart with I&A 3, but in the past few months, it was still able to draw at least 15, and often 25+, players. Personally, I actually liked that it had less players, because there was often a lot more discipline (I've heard someone say it sometimes had more than EU3 ...), or at the very least less trouble to handle as Spartan / admin than on EU1.
 
 Judging by the statistics of the past 30 days, a Sunday evening would've had 35 - 40 players on Tanoa, but last night on EU4, there were 6 at best... I don't know what the staff's goal is, nor am I implying they're doing this intentionally, but I think switching Tanoa to another server is probably the best way to kill it entirely. 

I used Repair specialist as vehicle crew in the past. I@A3 (and 3.1) is in my opinion more focused on infantry combat and this makes them a bit underused right now. But personally, I don't see that as a problem. If More FOBs are taken or side mission rewards roll some armour then those slots can be used by players that wish to operate armoured vehicles and give them more survivability. Limiting their choice of primary weapons would limit their use even more. I am happy about their current weapon limitations as they can function as a rifleman. I would rather welcome return of sling-able service containers and repair offroad. 
 
EOD squad had never seen much of use. Return of the minefields would be interesting as I was always amused by players running like headless chicken inside minefields and blowing their teammates (if I was not blown up myself).
 
My guess is that minefields were removed because so many players died in them. Even if you had mine detector, explosives and skill you often died because somebody killed you by setting off bounding mine. In the public server which in my eyes is designed as quick action cooperative FUN with low demands on the individual player experience in Arma, it is good they are gone.
 
What to do with EOD squad then? Limiting all placeable explosives to some roles seems like a good idea but it goes against the flexibility and mission flow. Let me explain this.
 
Now imagine that you crashed your bird and your main rotor is too close to an object. You need a vehicle to push it or demo to destroy it. You flipped your tank and you don't have a bobcat to flip it back. In these cases, you would need to pray that somebody capable took the slot and can land you helping kaboom so your asset can at least respawn, or hope that clearing script will eventually delete it.
 
To give and EOD more use you need to create a purpose for them to be used for their unique feature. In my opinion, that feature is not placing explosives bud disarming them.
 
Side missions where you need to disarm antiship mines in harbours or straits protected by an enemy patrol boats, or ambushing an ambush and clearing up IEDs after that, or defusing huge IED in the city which would detonate 10 minutes after players alerts enemy in the area (or more simple trigger that activates the bomb after players enter set radius around the objective). I will try to make these examples in EDEN and share them later.
 
@Noah_Hero The thing with increasing health is that GBU has more oomph than a satchel, so to reduce UAV effectivity by increasing RT HP (or limiting incoming damage by certain %) would force EOD to pack more satchels, which might, in turn, impact his combat effectivity (satchels are HEAVY). 

Its NOT about first come first serve, this is a bullsh*t argument, it really is. People who go by this rule are selfish pr*cks.
Just have the common curtesy to let other people have some rare items and fun with it aswell. Elitist bullsh*ttery as with someone dosnt know how to handle the given items couse hes a noob/dosnt know how to use "it"is another non-argument aswell, YES its frustrating seeing they cant handle the item, but what most people forget is the fact we all play for fun. Together.
 
Consider it/this a general statement/point of view, not pointing to anyone.
 
I wish i was there when the moment happend, but im in a very, very strange situation with spare time being almost non-existent. Even so hectic ive decided to get a smartphone to deal with the situation and no, ...im not sick...

Scar, you cannot possibly expect any Admin to tell a player to leave a vehicle because you simply called dibs on it. Whoever gets the vehicle first means it is theirs. You might forget but the side missions arent designed specifically for you.
 
EU1 is a public server, you should expect people to not have any awareness (you've mentioned stuff like this before on many occasions) and take any vehicle they see regardless of whether you did the side mission all by yourself. 

I think refusing to take-off unless given an LZ is doing just that.
 
I like what Cebi said:
 
I think this is much more true, most pilots will do their job without requiring any input/destination from their passengers, much like a bus.
Therefore the players (passengers) are used to this system where they can hop in a heli and trust the pilot to take them where they need to go.
 
Sure in an ideal world the pilots could be more like cab drivers, but it's simply not going to happen, there is very little we can do to change the mentality of EU1 players, and that's something you need to accept

@Stanhope You are not supposed to know. You can care about their opinion if they annouce it. If not do what you deem the best for overall effort.

This is a lot of hassle over essentially a non-issue.

Maybe I went through a similar dilemma when I was first piloting on EU1, but I gave up worrying about the people in my heli a long time ago  
Don't get me wrong, I'll happily discuss LZs with people etc, but if nobody makes any requests then I'll just put them at an LZ of my choice.
They have no right to complain if they don't say anything while in the heli.

Keep in mind, the safety of the passengers is your responsibility as the pilot, so always be critical when someone makes a request.
 
I rarely see people asking for a specific LZ. In my experience, most people will ask to be dropped at Side or Main, but not anywhere specific.
 
As a pilot, you should be able to judge from your map whether a marked LZ would be relatively safe or not, and given that, you're naturally also able to pick one for yourself.
 
All that said; in the future, if people throw stones or bullets at you, feel free to inform a Spartan, as such behavior really isn't acceptable.

I haven't used the UAVs recently on EU1, but assuming they're still in the same positions, then I definitely agree that they should be moved.
As someone who has spent a lot of time operating UAVs, I still struggled to consistently take-off from their spawn positions. So I don't think it's fair (or makes any sense) to have them in a position where even a competent UAV op should lose a UAV because there is not enough distance to take off.
 
I think the best (and easiest) solution would be to move them to the resupply base as Max suggested.
 
@Cryo It's a nice idea but that could end up with a lot of darters in the air, which can impact server performance.

They do get captured, most I've seen is three captured, but there doesn't seem to be a pattern to how often a FOB will get unlocked.
 
I've seen a FOB get unlocked on the 4th AO, and I've seen a scenario elapsed time of 27 hours with no FOBs unlocked at all.

It feel as if you're sending out double messages.

I do agree, pilots are one of, if not the most important role on an I&A server and many pilots do not fly the helicopters the way they are intended to be flown. You often die when you get into a helicopter with a random, unknown pilot, and it shouldn't be like that. It's usually a combination of lack of skill, and cooperation which causes this, as people on the ground generally think the pilots are the only ones responsible for keeping the air clean of jets and making sure that the troops gets from point A to point B safe and secure. We say that we want more skilled and experienced pilots, but at the same time we want to be an open and easily accessible community.

There was a suggestion in a thread earlier where Extra suggested that we could give known and experienced pilots a mark/badge or whatever to show that they are competent pilots. The purpose was to make it easier for people to pick a more reliable pilot to fly with, to lessen the frustration and respawnrates of the troops. The idea swiftly got shot down with the motivation that we're not a milsim. These servers are supposed to be accessible and we neither want people to feel excluded nor scare them away from trying new roles. Almost everyone was unanimous, this wasn't the way people wanted the server to go.

Mere 4 days later, this post, with its new set of rules is posted.
You're saying that people are misusing aircrafts, landing too close, abandoning vehicles, that they should not fly unless they know how to auto rotate and/or land a helicopter in a narrow space without an antitorque etc.

You're saying that the pilots do not value their helicopters, that they put them at risk and when it downs and then rather blow it up than actually repair it. I do agree with this to some extent. It is a shame that you as of today need to satchel a helicopter once you're downed. There are a few problems with makes this nessesary. The first problem is fuel, a problem which you say you will adress. It isn't often that you actually do carry a repair guy once you do go down, but the times you do the helicopter most likely won't have any fuel left by the time he's done repairing it. Sure, you may solve this, I've seen it done on other servers before in such a way that helicopters gain a few percent fuel once repaired, so I don't why why we can't have that here, but that is not the only issue.

You rarely have repair guys in you helicopter, and usually those slots are left empty. If you down your helicopter, you may be far from an AO (often you are), and taking a repair vehicle there would often take a tremendous amount of time, even with something you can airlift in with another helicopter. If you down too close to the AO you either need to drive there, or make sure that you have a competent repair guy, willing to help. If you try and fly there with a repair vehicle, you will most likely lose another helicopter, leaving you with even less helicopters for transportation.

The helicopters would have a lot of downtime, and people already complain if there isn't a helicopter on the helipad the second they respawn. The average random player has the patience and attention span of a five-year-old and you often see they beginning to mess around once they get tiered of waiting.

Some of these rules could be, but not on a server like this. The rules you're suggesting require way more disciplin, cooperation and communication than I've ever seen on EU 1 and 2. In the same way a writer has to adapt his style of writing to his readers, the server rules must be adapted to the player base. You can go ahead, you can give these rules a try, but I won't be flying with them.

All i see in these rules are a recipe for disaster. All I see is a server where piloting becomes more dull and boring, a server where people will have to walk for several kilometers because pilots are too tiered to wait for their repairs, or too tiered to actually return to and repair their downed helicopters. I imagine a scenario where helicopters will be left behind a scenario where people will take new helicopters rather than repairing the ones they use right now. People already do it. There are broken helicopters left at helipads or at old AOs almost all the time. The admins simply cannot keep track of it and the players don't even know where these helicopters are located. What's suggested would require even more babysitting by admins, and even with an admin constantly watching, I cannot even Imagine a scenario where this will work as intended, not with the current player base.

No, I do not like this idea the slightest. I think we're approaching this from a completely wrong angle. The problem isn't with the rules, the problem is the pilots. We do have a large amount of more than capable pilots, but they're often not the ones actually flying the helicopters. The pilot slots are very popular, they're often taken. People want to fly, they want to practice. Most of these pilots aren't the ones flying the way you seem to want them to fly, most of them are rookies trying their wings.

A suggestion to make sure that you have at least a few decent pilots on the server would be to take another look at Extras suggestion. I'd rather suggest that you white list 3 of the 5 pilot slots. Have 2 of the slots open for new players, to let them try their wings, but lock 3 of them. Have the top 3 slots only allowing more experienced pilots into them, pilots which you know are capable, pilots which have proven them self through tryouts and/or recommendations. Having one or two bad pilots isn't really a problem, as long as the other 3 are capable enough things will flow smoothly.

While I'm not active on the Publics any more, I'd ask that you keep in mind that getting a Repair Specialist to actually do his job, isn't always that easy, if at all possible.
 
If the Pilots are getting worse, I can only assume that everyone else is too.
 
Judging from my experiences back when, that could easily mean that being unable to explosively destroy a grounded helicopter would necessitate a respawn.
 
It may well be necessary for the pilot in question to personally fly out that repair vehicle, if a lifter helicopter is even available for use.
 
It seems to me this would require serious enforcing on the part of Repair Specs too, as well as ensuring that fellow pilots lend a hand if a refuel is required, something I don't see specified in this change of rules?

Let us give Baconmop and the rest of the Core Staff / Admins a big thank you for all the work and time they put into the AHOYWORLD servers.
Let us remember that they use their free time to work with main and side missions.
Please be patient because things take time however it will come
 
Thank you for the efforts you make to give us the best experience possible
 
MVH Stian

Ok, so a couple of topics have come up and have had quite the heated debate. That is fine and all but I am going to have to ask everyone to please keep responses ontopic and please keep it civilized.
 
Second note about this. EVERYONE IN THE COMMUNITY HAS THE RIGHT TO RESPOND TO A THREAD EVEN IF IT MIGHT NOT EFFECT THEM. Do not tell people that they can not/should not comment on a topic because they don't play on a certain server. I think that Ryko put it best. "I'd like to point out that everyone here is part of the Ahoyworld community, so let's stop the censorship and divisiveness?  Everyone's got an opinion, and the right to share it."

Hi guys,

I was wondering if it would be possible have someone on EU 2, marked as a dedicated Admin for that server.

Mainly because there are times where we have multiple teamkillers or people just trolling the server every so often,
We don't like having to constantly move to the other channels to ask an Admin to stop what they're doing and to come to help.

Just today we had to call on Chuck multiple times to deal with people just Tking or messing around with vehicles in deployment because they were ruining the experience for everyone else.

I'm sure there's a few people who are dedicated to playing almost exclusively on EU 2, as I do, that would be willing to do the work if there's no one available from the Admin team who would want to do that.

It is only a thought, but it's one that a few of us have discussed a fair amount in Teamspeak during days where the trolls come out to play.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

It was recently suggested that a player report form be added to report players when admins aren't around. It can be found at the top of the site under "player tools" (which is also new and has quite a few useful links) and clicking "report player". You can also find it at www.ahoyworld.co.uk/pr and when I&A is updated you can find it by QR code at the base so you can do it on mobile without even tabbing out!
 
You don't need to provide evidence but reports without evidence can be open to doubt so if you can, please do!

I've seen servers get left more or less empty after a jet pilot leaves, unless someone else steps up to take their place. If the troops get shot down too manny times in the helicopters, they will get bored, frustrated and eventually leave.

I usually manage to fly people to the AO, even when the jets up, but that isn't the important part. The AI is bad, it isn't putting up much of a fight to the jet pilots, but they still shoot down the helicopters/jets in spawn and is generally a pain unless some pilot takes the buzzard AA to keep the skies clear. You often get theese scenarios when noone wants to fly the buzzard, and I understand why - it's boring.

I don't like flying the buzzard-AA on the everyday I&A, it's dull. It's too easy, AI is stupid and you get killed while on the ground, not while fighting. Once the towers are down, you're flying around, doing nothing. Either you respawn and do some helicopter drops, or you wait in the air. If you respawn, the air will be filled with jets as soon as a new AO spawns, and thus the helicopters will get shot down (don't overestimate the average pilot), and if you chose to keep on flying you'll simply be waiting for anything interesting to happen. I'm quite patient and don't really mind waiting, but what are we waiting for? Some more dull AI jets that don't put up any kind of fight,? An AI in which you'll shoot one missile in, or chase behind incredibly close and finish with your main gun, without the AI even trying to shake you off. Other than that, you spend so much time simply waiting for things to happen. You're waiting for your rearm to complete, wounerable on the ground and often taking fire from hostile jets, and you're waiting for the jet to respawn.

I wouldn't mind increasing the difficulty or even spawnrate of the enemy jets. I like the idea of having jets in the air, having something to accually avoid, something which force me to be more careful and on my toes when flying helicopters, but for that to work you need your buzzard to be active. You need a pilot for it and you need him in the air as often as possible. Having a jet pilot waiting in spawn helps noone, and it isn't fun for the pilot, and not having anyone on the jet bebcause it's dull and you spend all your time waiting, that doesn't help anyone either. I'd even go as far as saying that I dislike taht the enemy tigrises won't fire at you unless you're within 1km from them, I'd much rather have the AO being somewhat dangerous, but that isn't the point here.

I see your point aswell and I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but it's fairly often not working propperly.

This isn't really an issue when everything works the way it should, but at times when there are fewer players online, or if the jet pilot isn't capable enough it can be a pain. 
 
This was the case yesterday. The AA pilot didn't perform very well and there were plenty of enemy jets in the air, shooting at the helicopters both in spawn and to/from AO. 
 
After an hour or two the jet pilot left and I stepped up to take his place. First thing to happen is that I get shot at while taxying to the runway, great.
 
After waiting for another jet (10 min) I'm airborne. Straight into combat, takes out 4 jets and need to rearm. During the time I land and rearm another jet respawns and shoot me down when on the ground, so I'm forced to wait another 10 minutes and thus the air is filled with jets again. During the very next takeoff I'm taking fire on the runway, but manages to get up and airborne and later take out the enemy jets. 
 
The AI is really stupid and flies horrendously bad, but they tend to get the jump on you when you're on the ground. They shoot as you take off, land or rearm, and you can't really do much to avoid it. If you get shot down, you're back to waiting another 10 minuits, there's just so much dead time, time spent simply waiting for a rearm or your jet to respawn. Other than that, they're so bad that it's barely fun to take the jet and fight them. I only took that role yesterday because we needed someone to kill the Jets, not because I wanted to, and I'm a guy love flying both the jets and helicopters in Arma.
 
The issue is that you spend so much time simply waiting for the jet to spawn or rearm. You could basically tab down and use a timer for the spawn when you die, since you'll have to wait anyways. Sure, you could take a helicopter and try and do a dropoff, but then another pilot would take the jet slot unless you're back at the hangar as it respawns, and you usually won't be.
 
This could be solved in different ways. 
 
The respawn and rearm time of the jet could be decreased, and the base AA could be extended to cover the landingstrip better. 
 
Me personally would love a combo of this, combined with having AI difficulty increased slightly on the jets, but I understand that that might not be possible without changing difficulty on everything else.
 
Anyways, long spawn times and too dull AI makes jets quite boring in I&A. It also causes frustration among the troops, who usually blame the helicopter pilots for taking missiles from enemy jets.

Basically, rather than decreseing the ammount of enemy jets, decrese the downtime of the friendly jets.

Wouldnt it be nice to get points for revives and maybe for healing teammebers???
What do you guys think about that idea ?

With the release of Apex and the main menu overhaul, Here is an updated version in helping you find the parts we need you to do on your end:
 
Navigate where highlighted (yellow circle), Then select your name
 

 
Select the UNIT tab then click edit,
Copy your player ID  (UID) they normally start with 76.
Then place the link we give you into the XML box.
 

 
Mark T

Time of preparation @ TS: 18:45 GMT (13:45 EST)
Time of training start: 19:00 GMT
Time of training end: 22:00 GMT (ish)
Type of gameplay: CO-OP TRAINING
Mods: EU#3 Repository Mods
 
Hello all,
 
I've put the finishing touches on the mission we'll be using for training on EU3, and because Insurgency 0.25 is a little bit behind, I thought I'd kill two birds with one stone and launch the training map this Friday.  Set in the small map of Shapur, US forces conduct training operations on a variety of topics.  This Friday, there will be training, and then at 20:30 something unexpected will happen outside the base walls that puts your training into practice...
 
SIGNUP FORM HERE
 
Training nights are intended to introduce new EU3 players to the systems we play with on EU3, from ACE medical, to ACRE radios, and the gear included in all those gigabytes you downloaded.  In addition we relay to you the format in which we play missions and how we work as a team.  The training map has room for 48 players, made up of four squads with 10 trainees and 2 trainers each.
 
The purpose of Friday's game night is to test-run the training format, to ensure we have covered all the bases.  You can participate in training from 19:00 on (though I do ask if you're participating, please arrive by 18:45) or you can participate in the post training portion at 20:30.  If you want to join the server but don't want to participate in training, there are various areas in the base where you can practice other aspects of EU3 - long range target shooting, grenade throwing, a regular firing range- and ZEUS can set you up if you have other things you want to practice.
 
If players and MODs are interested in helping with training please message me through these forums, Steam or TS and I'll gladly appreciate the help.  Ideally we'll have 2 trainers for each 10 trainees.  Though if advanced players and/or staff want to participate as Trainees to stress-test the system, I won't mind that either!
 
I look forward to seeing you on Friday!
 
- R