helicopter stuff

[DudeX]

greetings all,

 

i have spent quite a few hours flying choppers on your server recently. i want to share some observations regarding selection of LZ's:

 

1. too close

troopers hate to walk, i guess. i prefer to keep  1km away from the ao in order to avoid getting shot down by vehicles. as the battle progresses and own troops secure more and more terrain moving the lz forward becomes feasable.

 

2. bad choice of terrain

lz's are often chosen on a front slope facing the ao and all it's lurking apc's, vehicle cannons, infantry guns and whatnot. arma maps are awesome. it's easy to recognize terrain features meaning one can select a covered lz, i.e behind a ridge or similar.

 

3. impatience

troopers don't like to wait. some think i'm their personal cab driver. i'm not. personally, i ferry a minimum of 2 guys (so they can support each other on their enterprise). also, changing the destination midflight requires some adjustments the pilot needs to make which take time, too, such as referring to the map, planning an ingress/egress route and, of course talking/typing in chat.

 

4. the hilltop

a seemingly favourite lz is any given hilltop. i mean seriously! people love to bunch up on a peak and snipe down for an hour. hilltops are crap. they are obvious features in the countryside and any halfbaked enemy will have his own sights on them, too. being a little more creative and choosing different terrain from which to attack an ao is fun, too. fire and maneuvre, you know...

 

5. extraction

dont just type " i need extraction". that's not much information for a pilot. mark a preferred pickup point on the map and be ready with a smoke grenade (one is enough). throw it when the chopper arrives (when you hear it) and tell the pilot which color of smoke you just popped (in case there is other smoke in the area, which maybe you don't even see yourself).

 

and then some observations on pilot etiquette:

 

with 5 or so pilots all shuffling troopers back and forth i'd like to see a little more team spirit, meaning if a chopper arrives at base second  let the helo which already sits there take off first. if you're booked by a squad for an individual task that's different, but other than that hang back a little. it's a team game after all.

 

that was it.

 

i haven't seen any guidance or instruction how you prefer the piloting on your server to be conducted. so please add or correct anything i posted here. until then this here is at least something i prefer doing. i found that it also helps getting more troopers to the frontline alive :-)

 

cheers

 

[DakimDragco]

thx for the insight. you definitily touch a few known points. However on EU1 the gameplay tends to be more casual and faster paced. EU3 (modded server) is slightly more slow paced and tactics relative as to how pilots fly and act. You might want to try EU3 out if you like playing that way, im sure you would have a blast, but i would also hope to see future pilots in EU1/2 adapt some of you pointers to there gameplay as it does promote a smoother more logistical game.

[MessedUpSmiley]

I always pick and LZ myself prefferably behind hill or forest cover. If it is a really exposed area I sometimes droo people off behind the actual LZ I wanna go next so they can provide some overwatch and so they can try to get rid of hard targets with an angle on my approach or the LZ itself. Problem is the Missile Specialist (AA). Since that the AI got even better (improved) I've seen them sitting on my LZ, thats why I never use the same LZ more than 2-3 times.

[razgriz33]

as the PIC (Pilot In Command) it's ultimately your choice and responsibility to keep everybody on board safe. If anybody criticizes you for landing further away I'm sure you'll tell them why you do it

[Josh]

I'd agree with some of the points here. At the end of the day though the pilot is in charge of the bird and it's his choice where to go and not the moans ones in the back. But that's just another reason why I play eu3, a lot more teamwork and such like, LZ aren't on top of the AO(generally)

[30k]

I agree with the personal ferrymen part. I will sit at the base and wait for everyone that I can see on the map at base, to either come to the helo, or find another piece of transportation before I leave. But what tends to happen is, one person will get in and instantly tell you to take off and take them somewhere.

Another thing that I find to be annoying is when people get into the co-pilot seat of the Hummingbirds so that they can transport themselves to where they want to go. It's annoying because other people get in that same helo with them, thus making the helicopter pilot role null and void.

 

Best part is on EU1, when there is a jet in the air and it's hunting for that tasty helicopter booty, you evade it's missiles for a while and decide to land the guys a little further away from the LZ than you would have liked. But you always get those people that moan at you for doing so, but how I see it is, it was either I landed here safely and you all jogged for a bit. or we all died horribly in a fireball. good stuff.

[Nanne118]

As (sort of) mentioned above, pilot gets final say in deciding whether he lands closer or farther to the LZ. Not the (fire)teamleader and actually not even command, since they can not be expected to have a complete (a) picture as the pilot has.

[Buglet]

I've encountered every one of these problems at least once while being a pilot.

A lot of people overlook the diversity of how you can play in ArmA - you don't need to be on a hill. Why not try something different, like sneaking around a valley so you can attack the AO with surprise at close range? Often I get some passengers in my chopper and one of them says "I marked an LZ" so I check my map. What do I see? 5 points all around the AO, all marked identically as "LZ", all on a hilltop within 500 metres of AO epicentre. I'm always inclined to kindly tell them that I have my own plan that is much safer.

Also experienced pilots don't like landing on hilltops. Not just because it's dangerous, but it's also damn repetitive! If I'm in an MH-9 I don't want to just hover in over a hilltop and drop it down, I want to be sweeping through low valleys and drift the chopper into a concealed place. Asking me to land on some exposed flat surface high up is just altogether RISKY and BORING. Why play as a pilot if you're just flying back and forth in a straight line, with a high chance of getting shot every time?

And yes, a lot of other pilots are impatient. Once, I was waiting on the helipad next to spawn, and another heli comes back from the objective with a very impatient pilot. He was so desperate to get passengers that he attempted to land on the helipad next to me, destroying both choppers in the process. Is it with it? Delaying all the players for so long just because you didn't want to wait your turn? Really frustrating.

Transport pilots like to have fun too. I appreciate that every minute that ground troops spend getting ferried between places is a minute that they aren't doing anything, but you need to let pilots have their fun also. I'm sure I can speak for a majority of pilots when I say that we LIKE to try new landing areas, we LIKE to test our own limits with some terrain-hugging flying, and we LIKE to not be crashed into when waitngi for passengers. And most of all, we like to be in control of our own vehicles, and very often, typing in caps "JUST LAND US ON THE HILL I MARKED" is not only a redundant waste of your energy and time, but also very frustrating for the pilot.

Sorry for the long post, but I can relate.

#PilotsArePeopleToo

[iLLGT3]

The ArmA community amazes me with their talk about how much better they think they are than typical FPS players. That being said, I have noticed that most of the players in the community are really the same as the ones they criticise.. lazy, impatient, and greedy.

[Buglet]

The ArmA community amazes me with their talk about how much better they think they are than typical FPS players. That being said, I have noticed that most of the players in the community are really the same as the ones they criticise.. lazy, impatient, and greedy.

It happens. But please. Don't take me wrong. A good number of my close friends I've met playing arma and they're all incredible people.

I find comfort in the fact that every game will have good and bad players, every government good and bad politicians, every school nice people and bullies, every shop fast and slow checkout workers... Just the way the world is.

[MessedUpSmiley]

Just land 3km out of the AO and watch their feet bleed as they have to walk a personal record distance.
I don't get why people scream etc. over Vehicle channel (VON).
When they are too impatient for the pilot to look at his map and see any recent changes such as AA-movement and the compromisation of LZ's. The pilot can either choose to submit, ignore or rage.

Submitting meaning landing in a either too hot, exposed or unreachable (AA before arrival).

Ignoring meaning just fly where you wanna go yourself. In the end the soldiers on board are your responsibility and if anything happens you are to blame, so you do the right thing which is most of tge time against the likes of the passengers.

Raging... we can all give examples and reasons why this would happen. I'll just give you a personal rage moment.

"One, maybe two, weeka ago I was flying the Mohawk, a chopper I'm not too experienced with, but I can still manage to land etc. without killing others in the process. Well I was a little bit annoyed already as I waa on Ts3 with another person who was a transport pilot at that time and he got mad, because of the same people, before it happened to me. So what happened is me landing at base to pick-up people and [REDACTED] jumped in. Names if people who you may or may not have heard from before, let me tell you a little bit about their personality using a Pancake quote: " Scrubs with their thumbs up their asses". Especially [REDACTED] who doesn't respect anyone. He kept screaming that he had to go to some specific LZ, whilst continiously opening the Helicopter ramp and playing Justin Bieber's 'Baby' over vehicld channel. When I asked him to stop he just turned the music up whilst [REDACTED] started caps-typing about another LZ so they also started raging against eachother. I had a couple of agruments with [REDACTED] in-game and on ts3 before and for a guy who is a self proclaimed EOD expert in the US Army, he didn't seem really mature. So when they started bitching on the chopper and my actions to try and restore order didn't seem to pay off I threatened that I would land the chopper 5 clicks out of the AO and they could argue whilst walking there. He dared me to do it in such a way (disrespect and insults) that I just landed, got out and disconnected.

[Hoax]

Just land 3km out of the AO and watch their feet bleed as they have to walk a personal record distance.

I don't get why people scream etc. over Vehicle channel (VON).

When they are too impatient for the pilot to look at his map and see any recent changes such as AA-movement and the compromisation of LZ's. The pilot can either choose to submit, ignore or rage.

Submitting meaning landing in a either too hot, exposed or unreachable (AA before arrival).

Ignoring meaning just fly where you wanna go yourself. In the end the soldiers on board are your responsibility and if anything happens you are to blame, so you do the right thing which is most of tge time against the likes of the passengers.

Raging... we can all give examples and reasons why this would happen. I'll just give you a personal rage moment.

"One, maybe two, weeka ago I was flying the Mohawk, a chopper I'm not too experienced with, but I can still manage to land etc. without killing others in the process. Well I was a little bit annoyed already as I waa on Ts3 with another person who was a transport pilot at that time and he got mad, because of the same people, before it happened to me. So what happened is me landing at base to pick-up people and [REDACTED] jumped in. Names if people who you may or may not have heard from before, let me tell you a little bit about their personality using a Pancake quote: " Scrubs with their thumbs up their asses". Especially [REDACTED] who doesn't respect anyone. He kept screaming that he had to go to some specific LZ, whilst continiously opening the Helicopter ramp and playing Justin Bieber's 'Baby' over vehicld channel. When I asked him to stop he just turned the music up whilst [REDACTED] started caps-typing about another LZ so they also started raging against eachother. I had a couple of agruments with [REDACTED] in-game and on ts3 before and for a guy who is a self proclaimed EOD expert in the US Army, he didn't seem really mature. So when they started bitching on the chopper and my actions to try and restore order didn't seem to pay off I threatened that I would land the chopper 5 clicks out of the AO and they could argue whilst walking there. He dared me to do it in such a way (disrespect and insults) that I just landed, got out and disconnected.

 

Your story doesn't really paint you in a positive light either.  Edited to remove names and stop a potential flame war.

[MessedUpSmiley]

I'm sorry for what I did, but some people have to see that pilots are vital for fast troop transport and not some scratching post you can scratch your nails on if something doesn't  go to your liking so to speak.

[Sleepy]

Speaking as a lowly foot soldier I have had a positive experience regarding pilots. Except for one night last week.

 

I logged on, ammo'd up and got into a helicopter. All going fine until someone starts mouthing off to the pilot. Ended up with me and a load of other well behaved guys dead in the water as the pilot purposely crashed. Respawned, got into a chinook, took off, same guy who mouthed off before starts up again. Pilot jumped out in mid air. A whole load of guys ended up dead again. Respawn, get in helicopter, same guy again kicks off. He was then banned and kicked off the server. Only after the pilot threatened to crash again.

 

Took me about 25 frustrating minutes to get to the AO.

 

Anyway, I would ask pilots in such a position not to throw your dummy out of the pram, ruining every bodies game time. I can't remember  who the pilots were, but that is really not the way to behave, regardless of the prat mouthing off. You won't get anywhere in life with that sort of reaction. Mute them or vote them out, don't kill everyone else on board.

 

Apart from that one string of unfortunate events, I find the pilots do a fine job in ferrying me around. I've come across some great bits of flying at times.

 

You are the pilot in command, so don't feel bullied by some loud mouthed idiot. 

[Helicrazy14]

For me with the part about happy to have an interesting lz, I was flying to pick some people up from kavala as the side obj there was done and I the people on the ground were actually good and marked an lz right on a crossroad in town that still has a clear approach path (When I saw the lz location I thought "Yes, an interesting lz"), and also when I got their, everyone was at the lz calmly waiting just out of my way for me to land, and once they got on they were very nice to (Not demanding anything, just clamly asking when they wanted something). That was probably the nicest pickup I've had so far. I'm still new to ahoyworld, at that point I had only flown about 3hrs with some ground time the days before.

[Optio]

Generally I find pilots who connect to TS have fantastic/good/some skills, or at last young and honest. It's interesting how less than 50% of pilots connects to TS. There should be an easy way to kick player from pilot slot if they don't connect to TS (as it is mandatory I think) when there's someone known as a good pilot on the server waiting for slot.

 

I thought I'm terrible pilot. Than I turned off advanced flight mode

Maybe I will take pilot slot someday and just to test myself.

[Cellhawk]

Remember, as EU#1-2 are public servers, everyone can be anything unless they really mess/ignore their role (up). That's (one of) the reason(s) why pilots are not forced to be on TeamSpeak. If you read it on the map, it says "should be" not "must be".

[D.Devil]

Something I'd like to add to point 5.) 

5. extraction
dont just type " i need extraction". that's not much information for a pilot. mark a preferred pickup point on the map and be ready with a smoke grenade (one is enough). throw it when the chopper arrives (when you hear it) and tell the pilot which color of smoke you just popped (in case there is other smoke in the area, which maybe you don't even see yourself).
 
and then some observations on pilot etiquette:

Please STOP shooting at the heli's when they're approaching the evac/extraction zone. Past few days I and I'm sure other pilots were shot at by friendlies in their approach, I even lost 1 or 2 of my systems cause some of you are too impatient to wait a few more seconds. Shooting at heli's won't make it go any faster, in fact, it'll only slow down the process and you will piss the pilot off. I sometime don't even extract you anymore, imo you may walk home.
 
Running towards the heli while it's still descending isn't the best idea either, if the pilot has to avoid something/adjust in their descend you might find yourself being "teamkilled" by the pilot. When the game classes a pilot as teamkiller you won't be able to hop in the back (aslong as the pilot stays seated), also slowing down the process of being extracted and last but not the least; our base airdefense will target the heli and won't stop untill it's shot down, which wouldn't be something you'd want to happen to yourself or other players either so close to base, right?
 
That's all from me.

[Icy]

It used to be ts only, but it was removed presumably to not exclude/discourage players from the role in-game by any means. I might be wrong on the specific, but I am pretty sure it won't return like that.

[Werzion]

One thing that needs to stop is pilots getting to close and to high near an AO.

 

A majority of my deaths are because of this stupidity...

 

I mark out a good LZ with a hill as cover (a.k.a. I put the LZ on the other side of the hill), never the less a majority of the pilots fly either so high that the hill doesnt work as cover from all the artillery, tanks and AA-infantry in the AO, and/or tries to land ON the hill or the AO-side of the hill...

 

 

I know the pilot-slots are "public property", but god damn this annoys me as hell. 

 

 

*EDIT* I vote court-martial on that shit!

 

 

And to end with something positive, today (on EU #2) I got alot of good assistance and rides from the pilots, putting AT-missiles in the heli-inventory and meeting me up far outside the AO to hand 'em over. Awesome! 

 

 

 

*EDIT 2*

Old but forever golden!

 

[Amentes]

Remember, as EU#1-2 are public servers, everyone can be anything unless they really mess/ignore their role (up). That's (one of) the reason(s) why pilots are not forced to be on TeamSpeak. If you read it on the map, it says "should be" not "must be".

 

I've always been of the opinion that "should be" is too easy to misinterpret, as has been the case for many players on the public servers.

 

"Are encouraged to be" would be a far better phrase, in my humble opinion

[Cellhawk]

I've always been of the opinion that "should be" is too easy to misinterpret, as has been the case for many players on the public servers.

 

"Are encouraged to be" would be a far better phrase, in my humble opinion

I second that.

[Someone]

I'm so happy that I'm not the only one who at times get frustrated at how simpleminded some people appear to be when they talk with the helicopter pilots.

I'll try and tell some of my experiences from flying helicopters on theese servers.

DudeX mentioned theese five points, and I'll have to say, he's spot on.

1. too close
2. bad choice of terrain
3. impatience
4. the hilltop
5. extraction

As a pilot you can often work around a bad LZ, such as a LZ that's too close or a bad choice of terrain such as the peak of or the wrong side of a mountain. The impatience, lack of communication and generally bad extraction markers on the other hand are difficult to handle and the people on the ground don't seem to understand that.

I don't know how manny times I've seen people simply yell "evac" in chat and expect a pilot to pick them up from somewhere, when the pilot has no idea what so ever on where they are. No evac markers are set and once you accually get there they're often angry that it took so long. Those sites are rarely, if ever marked with smokes. The bigger missions tend to be marked and smoked propperly, but side missions or crashed vehicles etc are usually badly marked and rarely smoked.

It's the same with dropping off troops. Some people just say "drop me at my squad"  or "drop me at this player" and then don't mark their squad on the map. The pilot can't tell where your squad is and if you don't mark it, you're not going to get there. I don't know how manny times I've had to tell people that, I simply cannot see your squad hexagons and that they will have to place a marker. I have no idea what so ever where your guys are and cannot get you where you want to go based on "drop me at my squad". As a pilot, I don't have time to search the map for certain names to find where your buddy is, you're going to have to place that marker for me or accept that you're getting dropped at wherever I find suitable. If a pilot tells you to place a LZ marker, then place a LZ marker. The pilot is flying, navigating, typing, trying to keep track of where the troops and the other helicopters are, avoiding AA and jets, while trying not to hit the ground, all at once. You're just sitting there, waiting to get delivered. Help the pilot by not forcing him or her to do extra multitasking, just because you're too lazy to place a damn marker.

The best experiences I've had as a helicopter pilot comes from the times I've flown in dedicated, more experienced squads.
It often begins with a squad leader, waiting outside of the helicopter as his troops are loading in. Once you see a guy waiting next to your helicopter, you know you're in good hands. Once we take off, the squad leader knows where he wants to go, tells about the situation in the AO and with that intel we discuss and decide on an LZ that should be safe. Optimally the squad leader marks the LZ on the map.

Once the troops are done and they want an Evac, a EVAC/EXTRACTION marker is set on the map. They tell about the marker in chat and once the helicopter approaches a smoke is thrown. They are patient and do not run up to the helicopter as it's approaching, and instead keep some distance until the helicopter touches ground. Again, the squad leader is the last person to enter the helicopter, to make sure that noone gets left behind.

Usually you don't need all of this to make a good extraction or drop off, since you can see friendly troops on the map and you can utilize 3:rd person to look around your vehicle, but it all helps to make life so much easier for the pilots if the crew accually cooporate and help him.


Now I'm going to tell you about my worst ever helicopter experience.
This was during the 2016-01-29 Luetin PVP event, and many elements on the HUD was turned off.
You were in a first person lock (amazing for immersion and great fun), and the waypoint marker was turned off so that you couldn't use it for ranging out enemy troops. You couldn't even see your friendly troops marked on the map.

Try doing a good drop of with theese settings based on the information "drop me at my squad". No markers, nothing. you don't know where you have friendly units, you don't know where you have hostile units. You now have a pilot, navigating from what he can see with his eyes, as no waypoint is able to be marked, a pilot with vision limited to first person for looking around his aircraft and spotting troops and landmarks, a pilot who does not know which troops are friendly and which are hostile. It is not easy to tell troops apart when flying, they're too small and you're moving too fast. For this pilot to make a decent, safe drop off it is now extremly important that the guys in the helicopter communicate with him. They need to know where they want to go and they need to mark the location on the map, as they're the only ones who know where their friends are at.

The troops also need to tell when they're out of the vehicle, and at extractions, tell when all guys are inside. The pilot cannot tell that from first person, the visuals to the rear, sides and underneath are very restricted, often even entierly covered.

Don't take this the wrong way, flying in that PVP event was probably the most fun I've ever had. The innitial flying to the objective, when you had an entire crew went fine, as the group leaders forfilled their roles, but the extreme lack of communications from the rest of the crew to the pilots made it incredibly difficult to get guys back from spawn to their squad once they died, and even though I repetedly told them that they had to help me with a marker, I rareley got one. Manny of those landings were done completeley blind, and the troops could just aswell have been dropped beside hostile units, just because the crew refused to communicate.

 

[xSniper1982]

I don't fly when I play...
Mainly because too many people would die if I did.

But...
When I enter a Helicopter, I treat it like I am entering that persons home.
I'm polite, and respectful.
If the Pilot asks if I have a preferred LZ, I will either :

give them a specific marker, with information about best approach and potential threats,
or,
tell them that I don't mind where they drop me off, as long as it is safe for them to do so.

Whilst en route to the LZ, I will be talking to the pilot/dealing with questions from the rest of the passengers on the Pilots behalf,
usually to tell them to stop asking silly questions, or expecting the Pilot to fly them into a hostile area.

At the same time, my eyes will be on my Map and I will be listening to my Squad via in-game comms or TS, and that information will be marked on the map, and/or relayed to the pilot where appropriate.
And it's the little things, like making them aware of AA near an LZ, or that a Jet is approaching from a certain direction.

THEN, there's the Gunners... the idiots.. the children...
They jump into the seats and shoot at anything that moves, whether that's in base or on the way to the AO.

Me, I will take a Gunner seat if available, then inform the Pilot which seat I am in,
and that I will not fire unless either :

I am told to do so by the Pilot,
or,
We have already been engaged by the hostile.

I think it might be fun once every 2-3 weeks to hold a 'Training' day, to help ease some newer players into the etiquette/decorum that should be used in ARMA, not just to Pilots, but to Drivers, Medics, Spotters etc too.

[fir_nev]

Not sure if this topic is the correct one to ask the following question but here goes...

 

How do you make your descent before landing? I always get stuck at autohover in the DLC tutorial practice. Also, any peripherals that will make the piloting experience better?

 

Thanks in advance.