The state of EU3 - Opinions, problems and possible solutions. A constructive thread.

[Copey]

Right this post it going to be blunt, pretty darn long and more than likely won’t make me any friends. And I really don’t care. There are issues, serious issues within the eu3 community at the moment, some have been there a while, some have only just started. However, I think the severity of them has become evident throughout recent threads within the forum. I will put this at the start; if any posts in reply to this turn into the bitching plain to see in other threads or are inflammatory, then I will ask for them to be moderated, and either toned down to the useful and constructive bits or outright removed. I am making this thread attempting to address some of these issues in a constructive discussion, with a possible solution, at least a temporary one to get the community back on track. Solution is in the last paragraph, skip to it if you really must, most things before that s outlining current issues as I see them.

I won’t lie EU3 in game and the community of players it supports have become more toxic than Rainbow Six Siege when you play with Josh of late. People are plenty able to voice their opinions out of channel to friends at the moment, but are not willing to put them plainly on the forum or in a place where the issues they see can be addressed. As someone that talks to a lot of folks that play on server there is a growing contempt for some decisions made on the direction of development of gauntlet. I am not going to go through them all, however, to name a specific issue is the changing of squad composition and secondary change to require a CMD element at all times. Now don’t for 2 seconds think this is going to turn into a rant about that, because it isn’t. I’ll be honest I don’t agree with these changes, yet I do understand the reasoning for them. This change has caused some pretty serious rifts and divisions within the community, and I understand there will always be people who don’t get on, the current state of division is ridiculously bad. It is toxic. We need to pull people together, not force them apart based on a single issue, and work it out, rather than bitch at each other because of it. I get that it arouses strong emotions within people but the way it has been discussed hasn’t exactly been constructive.

In general, there is a lot more pissing around – for lack of a better way to put it, on server. Now we aren’t milsim, and I hope we never become that, but there is a degree of responsibility held by all players who want to play on the server because of its more informal nature. That responsibility as outright ignored by some members, while others accept it and use it. This isn’t something the mod team should have to be dealing with. If you are going to play on the server, enjoy it, and enable others enjoyment, you need to have a mind-set of community, rather than I this or I that. This was something instilled in me when I first came on the server many moons ago, but it’s not exactly the case anymore. We need to get back to that, encourage people to accept the values of EU3 and not take it for granted. It’s almost like that same principles as clubs IRL, they do much more for building and growing an individual than just teaching them or playing football for example.

There are other issues but I don’t have time to type them at the moment, battery on my laptop is running low and I’m currently on a train. But I want this to post as soon as I can so I’ll hopefully get back to it later when I get home.

In summary with all of these issues, EU3 has changed dramatically from how it was first envisaged, all things need to adapt and change over time, however my personal opinion is that the server has lost its way a little, strayed from the principles it was founded on. That isn’t a personal dig at the people running EU3, so don’t take it as one. I think to get back to the community of supporting and enjoyable gameplay, with a lot less drama than we have now, we need to seriously look at the direction of the server. AhoyWorld isn’t a democracy, that isn’t a bad thing, but what is a bad thing, is not being a democracy, and not listening or consulting the community who play on, and ultimately support the servers. A possible solution that could work as a temporary measure to get things back on track and to get general and specific feelings heard is to utilise the field ambassadors and EU3 veterans. Before changing a core feature of the server or path of development its really easy to run such changed by both mods, as is done currently I believe, and these experienced members. Not being someone who enforces the rules, in my experience has meant that people tend to voice honest opinions more. It would be really simple to quickly gauge honest community reaction to things by talking with FAs and vets, and have the same effect as holding one of our pretty rare community meetings. As a further idea for moving forward, use these FAs and vets as an oversight committee (in effect) for the creative direction of the servers. All creative processes, which maintaining and developing gauntlet has to be called, require the developer(s) to be grounded, perhaps using this oversight committee so to speak as a grounding wouldn’t be that bad of a thing, as they know general feelings within the community and can provide genuine feedback very, very quickly. And I think that it is important we don’t use the mod team as this committee, but include say 2 mods within it.

To those who are the creative developers on EU3 this post isn’t solely directed at you, but I feel it is a good place to start in turning the community around for the better. Do not take it as me having a moan at you, I’m not.

Sorry for the length of the post but the problems we are seeing need to be addressed and fixed. And done pretty soon too. We cannot continue as a community with things how they are, because there won’t be a community pretty soon, there will be a bunch of salty folk bitching at each other at every opportunity. Surely that isn't what we want.

[GhostDragon]

I agree with all points that have been raised here

I would also like to say I personally preferred the slots the way they were because 5 men in a fire team greatly improved their flexibility to respond to situations and it allows for 2 fire teams that can work and be assisted by the FTL when needed (also allowed for formations such as arrow head to be formed correctly)

And I think requiring a command element will only work if FTLs are included for the simple reason that numbers are not always in a state to warrant a squad lead being present. It also works against the work done to move the marksman slot due to people trying to run it all the time as if there is an ASL we can in theory have a marksman even without A1 or 2 filled making it just as popular as it was previously.

Just my thoughts on the subjects.

[Slurk]

I read through your post Copey and from what I can read you want changes to gauntlet to go through a small review process before implementation in the server? And you want to change something about the squad composition? Is that right?

[Vlk]

What is an EU3 veteran? Is it a title? I've played here since release and haven't seen any title. I agree to some of your points though

Sent from my iPhone using a phone app that is really irritating because it constantly advertises itself.

[Minipily]

I've been here since the day EU3 very first came out back in 2014 or at least since the 2nd day it started (had to download the modset) and me and others have watched EU3 deteriorate, ask me or Jochem and we will reply how we just sat and watched it crash and burn since late 2014 early 2015 when most the EU3 Seniors (people stole what EU3 veteran really means) left and the EU3 way just completely collapsed. Nowadays it is just a sess-pit and sadly I doubt their is much you can do about it. EU3 will never return to its former glory when we played on Patrol Ops and had original players with good tactics, teamwork, communication and camaraderie in a somewhat relaxing 40 player average server. Now we don't even get close to that number and most the players don't even have a sense of camaraderie never mind actually use original tactics and teamwork.

 

I do totally agree with most your points

 

All I can say is, you cannot truly fix it BUT you can filter it out a LITTLE and control it but never fix it fully.

 

None the less, the server does still uphold a somewhat decent structure that we can all enjoy from time to time, even when we all have completely different wants and needs in ArmA 3 Multiplayers experience, I myself am all for hardcore Milsim but I understand EU3 will never get that and I can still have fun.

 

Also, congratz again on Moderator and good-fucking-luck with this, a completely brutally honest person like me wouldn't last 5 seconds in your boots!

 

Do what you want with my post, I speak only truth.

[Harrod200]

I'm indifferent on the issue of squad reorgs; I've not been here long enough to really get attached to a particular setup.

 

My only concern with the requirement of having some form of command element is that when the server has few players, I'll happily take a couple of people and go on a mission, but I don't want to be in a leadership position when the population has grown; the current state means either I suck it up and take a TL position to get things started, and reslot later (though this would be pretty disruptive mid-mission), or I quickly burn out once a few more people join and end up leaving much sooner than otherwise. Out of interest, what was the reason for the change?

[JuX]

Did i just understand this correctly. Squad setups have been changed now? Despite current majority public opinion saying "nope". Well i wont envy the squad leaders whom have to deal with their own fireteams now on top of the other two. Along with additional radio comms.

 

Now to the subject at hand...

 

Mentioned this toxicity a while back as well and i guess no measures were taken. I was majority of the time in squad leader position. So i can tell you there is nothing wrong in how structure of the commanding / squads are done,

but it's simply the members that are at fault. I think people simply do NOT understand what leaders have to deal with on regular basis, when you fool around or wont communicate. As well the "i am better then you mentality", which i saw first hand when i returned after long break from disasters and new members didn't recognize me.

 

So i guess it would be time for shock therapy then and have people who never command, experience the disorder.

[Ryko]

Gauntlet 0.46G is on the server now for Altis, Chernarus, Fallujah, Zargabad and Clafghan (should we decide to put it on EU3).  This returns the squad composition to 2-5-5, and turns the Commander requirement into an optional mission parameter.

 

With this, I have decided to cease any further development for Gauntlet.

 

- R

[Vlk]

3 hours ago, Ryko said:

Gauntlet 0.46G is on the server now for Altis, Chernarus, Fallujah, Zargabad and Clafghan (should we decide to put it on EU3).  This returns the squad composition to 2-5-5, and turns the Commander requirement into an optional mission parameter.

 

With this, I have decided to cease any further development for Gauntlet.

 

- R

Dont knowthe reasons behind ur choice there Ryko, but i think the community have been abit harse against recent changes, not giving it much of a chance. I for one, appreciate the work u lay down, knowing that it takes alot of time u could spend doing otherstuff. (drinking beer, chasing girls etc...l,m.     )

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Vlk said:

Dont knowthe reasons behind ur choice there Ryko, but i think the community have been abit harse against recent changes, not giving it much of a chance. I for one, appreciate the work u lay down, knowing that it takes alot of time u could spend doing otherstuff. (drinking beer, chasing girls etc...l,m.     )

Because people are a bunch of ungrateful ballbags.

[MessedUpSmiley]

Please keep the posts in this thread constructive - as the title suggests, anyone failing to do so might see his post removed.

Furthermore; @H2K there's no reason to start calling fellow AhoyWorld members out - even if you don't mention any names. I can understand where the frustration is coming from, but there are other ways to out that.

[GhostDragon]

not sure i see anything off topic at the moment. 

I would also like to thank ryko for continuing support for the EU3 community while others are working on other projects but alas all good things come to an end. Thank you ryko and look forward to playing with you in a fun capacity without having to complain every 2 minutes again  

[Josh]

14 hours ago, H2K said:

Because people are a bunch of ungrateful ballbags.

Maybe, just maybe it was because he crossed the line? Didn't follow the correct procedures that we built for eu3, didn't consult with any of his fellow teamor the head of the team. And Then to take the even more piss tried to credit himself for gauntlet. Maybe just maybe he over stepped the line. Just maybe. 

 

Maintaining, and taking control of are two very different things. 

 

And if he can't handle being told to stop this stuff, because he over stepped the mark. And wants to stop then that's his choice. But I for sure hope he sees how he over stepped the line. 

 

Rykos great eat at mission works but there is a line. That's all I've got to say. 

 

Begore you you go around calling us ungrateful ball bags @H2K

[GhostDragon]

Maybe, just maybe it was because he crossed the line? Didn't follow the correct procedures that we built for eu3, didn't consult with any of his fellow teamor the head of the team. And Then to take the even more piss tried to credit himself for gauntlet. Maybe just maybe he over stepped the line. Just maybe. 

 

Maintaining, and taking control of are two very different things. 

 

And if he can't handle being told to stop this stuff, because he over stepped the mark. And wants to stop then that's his choice. But I for sure hope he sees how he over stepped the line. 

 

Rykos great eat at mission works but there is a line. That's all I've got to say. 

 

Begore you you go around calling us ungrateful ball bags @H2K

I think you will find that you speak for the minority josh.

[Josh]

20 minutes ago, Ghostdragon said:

I think you will find that you speak for the minority josh.

By Minority I assume you mean the moderator and admin team. Of which the above applies to. Which from what I understand has also been dealt with internally and you shall never see the details of.

 

But the major issues here and WHY everything has happened happened. Is because.

 

1. Ryko credited himself in gauntlet. Removing Chris and bacon. You might not know this but this happened. And is a MASSIVE no no no at ahoyworld.

 

2. Ryko changed the fundamentals of EU#3 without consulting the moderator team. Once again a big no no at Ahoyworld.

 

3. Created a poll for the slot changes and then TOTALLY ignored the results. Erm wut?

 

Get your facts inline.

[GhostDragon]

By Minority I assume you mean the moderator and admin team. Of which the above applies to. Which from what I understand has also been dealt with internally and you shall never see the details of.

As I recall neither should you because you ran off when acre was added...

[Josh]

7 minutes ago, Ghostdragon said:

As I recall neither should you because you ran off when acre was added...

Clearly you have no fucking idea what happened. Considering I've been a supporter of ACRE since ArmA2. 

 

You also have no clue of all the internal stuff that happened between myself and some other staff.

You also have no clue of the real life issues I went through losing two friends, in a space of a week. Sadly real life takes over my gaming life.

 

So please get your facts straight before you even attempt to call me out.

 

I've been around this community a lot longer than you. I've also done a LOT more than you and considering i'm one of the founding members of EU#3 I think you should try understand what is going on here more.

[GhostDragon]

look regardless of why you left you still left meaning you should not be involved. 

The other thing is the rest of the community was willing to try this new method but you come on once or twice and cry about it (not just you others as well)

the point still stands that if the minority is the admins then unfortunately it will be a very quiet server in the future.

[Josh]

You're still missing the point of why what happened. Happened. Scroll up. Re-read two posts above. 

 

Everyone from what I can see hated the fact he try to limit mission spawning.

 

And when you say "Left" I never left. I left the Moderator team. I've never left the community. I'm still very much involved. 

 

15 minutes ago, Josh said:

By Minority I assume you mean the moderator and admin team. Of which the above applies to. Which from what I understand has also been dealt with internally and you shall never see the details of.

 

But the major issues here and WHY everything has happened happened. Is because.

 

1. Ryko credited himself in gauntlet. Removing Chris and bacon. You might not know this but this happened. And is a MASSIVE no no no at ahoyworld.

 

2. Ryko changed the fundamentals of EU#3 without consulting the moderator team. Once again a big no no at Ahoyworld.

 

3. Created a poll for the slot changes and then TOTALLY ignored the results. Erm wut?

 

Get your facts inline.

[Josh]

P.s. I wont be replying to any more posts.

 

Josh OUT

[kennychr]

 

Alright this got pretty out of hand way fast. People need to fucking grow up and discuss in a civilised manner and not turn into a shitflinging contest.

 

Locking the thread now and FYI your info is way off so stop churning shit please