Training

[kennychr]

In a lack of better thread title im asking you, the users of EU#3 if you are interested in doing training courses.

 

This will be all things from squad formation training to CAS 9-Liners(For those who are FACs) to convoy proceudures etc.

 

Short thread iknow but not much else to be said..

[FrOzT]

im down...never hurts to train

[Ducky]

Are you going to use some sort of a training guide for our sessions? and is there will be a schedule for our training sessions?

[Guest lasse]

I'd be down for that! 

[L_Jacobs]

I'd be down for that! 

oeps srry forgot to login ;p 

[Minipily]

I'm down for it!

 

I could help in anything Tank related but nobody will give a sh*t about that no doubt and think i'm a mad man.

[Stuffedsheep]

I'm down for it!

 

I could help in anything Tank related but nobody will give a sh*t about that no doubt and think i'm a mad man.

The Main problem I noticed is that everyone is to impatient for it. If they have to drive any vehicle further than 2.5-3km its like a big no no, and everyone runs to the helicopter.

 

This sucks because there really Is no way to have any ground vehicles supporting the troops, because they take "To long" to get there. And then it results into a CAS plane or helicopter being called in, which is totally unnecessary and way OP for the vehicles the opposing faction uses.

 

The truth is, I can not remember any mission where a A10 or Apache was necessary, and they are way over utilized. If you want CAS, use a fucking AH9, that requires some skill to use. If you get shot, its because the pilot sucks at flying it and didn't use the right tactics. 

[Ducky]

I agree with you Sheep. I think if we going to do training sessions on convoy and tank/apc procedures and we don't use them, then it is pointless.

 

Plus, I think we need to do more preparation for converting EU3 and Ahoy Community into something more "hardcore" and serious squad or platoon, which will take time and dedication. 

[Boogieman]

We could add some sort of incentive to showing up for training? Maybe have most of the gear locked for people who don't show up for training so they aren't completely blocked from the server but it would be more fun. In addition, achievement hunters and gear collectors would want to come to the training just to unlock everything. That would add a sense of personal accomplishment to the game. This could also act as a fantastic way to integrate ranks into the server. The more training you do, the higher your rank. The higher your rank, the more gear and prestige you would have in game. It's simple in theory but the flip side is people are TOO lazy and don't want to even play on the EU #3 server. I think training would be a great thing for adding a little realism to the game and ultimately making it a lot more fun for everybody. I'd love a little feedback on this idea. Maybe if we all start throwing out ideas, we'll find something that's fun and works.

 

EDIT: If any of you guys want to hop on TS and have a talk, I'm online.

[Elevation]

Sounds like an Ace idea! The training.

[L_Jacobs]

Mmm i dont think it is a good idea to add "unlockables" to the server. Sure it will help bring players to the training sessions but it would restrict players to much and take away their freedom. I sure as hell wouldn't like it. I do like the idea to make everything a bit more serious though. And training is definitly needed even for the simple thing like how to use the radio efectiefly or how to move through a hostile enviroment. Also i think the game sessions need to be a bit more serious from time to time ot happens why to often that people are just waiting around in base doing nothing and out of boredom start to shoot friendlies or throw nades and stuf. Lastly we could use some more players in EU3 maybe you could add a sign in EU1-2 which promoted the modded server. Also i dont mind driving a tank or whatever a few miles and im sure there are enough people who dont mind i would love to see more verhicles being used. I think it is more the waiting in between missions that makes people impatiant.

[Boogieman]

True, freedom is one of the reasons we all play Arma. If we are going to make a transition and start to become a serious group, we need to start with who we have now and recruit people later. Getting 15 people to work together is difficult enough, getting 100 to sit still for a training would be like herding cats. All we need to do is make the training fun and useful. I suggested this in the TS earlier but if we could get a single squad to sit and go through the training, we could use them as a bit of a showcase to show other players how fun Arma can be when everybody is on the same page. Plus, it would look really cool. Those of us who have spent more than 5 minutes in the 'Arsenal' menu know how important aesthetics can be in this game.

[DakimDragco]

Well the idee of training (either weekly or maybe make it like one week gamenight, one week training op, then next week gamenight again. ) does seem nice. I'd be interested ijn helping out with say Recon and Marksman training, since that is my favorite role and i might even learn something myself from the experience.

 

But as sheep already pointed out, we do tend to run for the chopper way too much even if something is like 2k away from our location. So training in convoy movement and tactics is wasted unless we start to actualy use ground vehicles more in the future.

 

Second problem i see is GTA V comming out on PC in little over a week. People have already been less active for a while, me included (Special week on StarTrek Online, and recently bought Elder Scrolls Online too) so i fear attendance will be low if we set it up in the comming weeks.

[Boogieman]

Dragco, it's a very good point about the overuse of helicopters. Perhaps, a way to stop that is to add value to the helicopters that are already on the map. Maybe we could extend the respawn time of the helicopters or even disable respawn capabilities for them all together. This should increase the distance people would have to walk and increase the incentive for use of convoys. In addition, helicopters would be seen for their value in supportive roles, instead of as glorified ferries.

 

While GTA V is coming out on PC soon, this transition would need to occur over the course of several months. Since this isn't a milsim group, the transition into seriousness would take more than just a few extra rules and additional gamenights. This is why I am not concerned with early-stage participation. The best thing we can do now is hammer out the curriculum, so it is available when members are ready. 

 

If we really wanted to stimulate migration to EU #3, we could start recruiting people from EU #1 and EU #2 to actually come to the TS and chat about the modset.

 

I am excited to see this forum post gaining popularity. In all honesty, I thought I was the only one who wanted more realism in the game. Thanks, guys.

[JuX]

You should do the session military training way. Have training areas with individual trainers, rather then single man guiding the whole platoon.

 

Things to practice

 

Officer training / Leadership - To have more eager squad leaders and have fireteam leaders prepared if squad leader is gone.

 

Tank commanding - People don't have much experience in tank commanding role, calling out targets, ordering which to prioritize and where to drive.

 

CAS jet piloting - Seems only few people here are qualified to use the A-10. Many been complaining unable to lock-on or hit anything with the GAU.

                              (I flew yesterday on the A-10, the lock-on is fully functional and there is nothing wrong with any of it).

 

Specialization - Have people specialize in classes, too many are carrying dead weight, by trying to be jack-of-all trades.

                           (Perhaps time wasting demonstration is in order to have people run a lap around the airfield on their bloated gear, see how long it takes).

 

[L_Jacobs]

Well i'm not saying we should emediatly recruit 100people but last night we only had 2 squads with 3-4 people each. A little more than that would be nice. I also agree on the over use of choppers but this might be because of lack of training on how to use the vehicles correctly. Plus we uselly just get told to go into the chopper by our squad leaders i dont think anyone really minds driving to the objective.

[Icy]

You should do the session military training way. Have training areas with individual trainers, rather then single man guiding the whole platoon.

 

Things to practice

 

Officer training / Leadership - To have more eager squad leaders and have fireteam leaders prepared if squad leader is gone.

 

Tank commanding - People don't have much experience in tank commanding role, calling out targets, ordering which to prioritize and where to drive.

 

CAS jet piloting - Seems only few people here are qualified to use the A-10. Many been complaining unable to lock-on or hit anything with the GAU.

                              (I flew yesterday on the A-10, the lock-on is fully functional and there is nothing wrong with any of it).

 

Specialization - Have people specialize in classes, too many are carrying dead weight, by trying to be jack-of-all trades.

                           (Perhaps time wasting demonstration is in order to have people run a lap around the airfield on their bloated gear, see how long it takes).

I would love to help by creating a training mission format that focusses on different aspects of the ones listed by the post above. What exactly will be in these mission(s) is discussable, but the most important thing is that every training mission should be the same format/setup so its accessible to new players, as well as host-able by existing  experienced members in the future.

Although I do think that ''ranks''is an issue, since you could say : ''Who's going to host/lead these trainings''and ''Core staff/admins dont`t always want to host these sessions and monitor them''. There should be a motivated group of people accessible who have f.e a weekly password for ( maybe?) EU4 with the training mission on it. They can take a group of players who are motivated enough to sign up ( like game nights sheets perhaps?).

And then theres the previously stated ''reward''for participating''. Why do something when it takes time and you can join the server nevertheless?

In my opinion, the one and only way to have an actual new recruit training (Or experienced players learning other roles) before players can join is if there is an actual active eu3 community. Im not saying there is not right now, but it could be a tad more active ( which is uncontrollable since its not mandatory of course). If people have to participate in trainings to be able to join they will search for a role they like which will result in f.e team/squad leads volunteering and eager to do it when they have the time to play, instead of everyone joining a HAT-Team or Pilot slot ( No offense folks ) just so they can have the individual satisfaction of blowing sh*t up and being effective. The same goes for other roles. I must admit this edges close to a mil-sim environment, but change is never wrong, as long as its a shared thought by the whole community.

[Pancake]

Specialization - Have people specialize in classes, too many are carrying dead weight, by trying to be jack-of-all trades.

                           (Perhaps time wasting demonstration is in order to have people run a lap around the airfield on their bloated gear, see how long it takes).

 

As the mission development progresses I'd like to see more specialised support squads being added, such as an EOD/Logi team and perhaps a Sniper to the command element (They, along with the FAC could be sent ahead to gather info on the ai positioning at the ao, which could allow for more flexible battle plans).

As it stands I've noticed people carting around explosive bricks when they're not playing the PLT ExSpec which invalidates that role rather badly I find. In regards to training I could help with explanations and demonstrations with the AGM explosives module, as clunky as it is.

 

 

The Main problem I noticed is that everyone is to impatient for it. If they have to drive any vehicle further than 2.5-3km its like a big no no, and everyone runs to the helicopter.

 

This sucks because there really Is no way to have any ground vehicles supporting the troops, because they take "To long" to get there. And then it results into a CAS plane or helicopter being called in, which is totally unnecessary and way OP for the vehicles the opposing faction uses.

 

The truth is, I can not remember any mission where a A10 or Apache was necessary, and they are way over utilized. If you want CAS, use a fucking AH9, that requires some skill to use. If you get shot, its because the pilot sucks at flying it and didn't use the right tactics. 

 

A greater variation in the vehicles available to use at base would be ideal, perhaps replace 4 of the abrams with 1 Slammer A1, a Slammer A4 and a Kuma. Something similar with the Bradleys, switch out 5 of them for the various other APCs included in the base game, nothing wrong with them. I'd also like to see the addition of a CRV at some point, so that disabled tanks can be recovered if they're ambushed just outside the base (this has happened before, we ended up getting the UN Party Car outa that mess).

 

 

Now for what I guess will be received as the unpopular opinion:

I'm not a big fan of the hardcore milsim stuff, I'd much rather there be a relaxed take on the milsim route through the week and keep that hardcore virtual ball busting shit to the gamenights.

[Stuffedsheep]

My view on "rewards" for EU#3 is that the "training" is it's own reward. Without any knowledge about tactics and operating weapon systems, things get chaotic. When things get chaotic, stuff goes wrong, and in the end people die. And that is what frustrates me, Knowing something could have easily been avoided if people(including myself) had the knowledge to handle the situation. we all make mistakes, but the less the better.

 

The most important training subject is the theory behind it. And anyone can read up on on in the Digital ArmA3 Guide. The point of the training is to put it into practice, and the best way to do this, is in a small group. A four or six man fire team is ideal, since that's the size group you will be in during most sessions. And when you are in a smaller group of people you are more comfortable with, the resistance to correct each other is lower. And you will need to correct each other.

 

 I'm not a big fan of the hardcore milsim stuff, I'd much rather there be a relaxed take on the milsim route through the week and keep that hardcore virtual ball busting shit to the gamenights.

The point is not to go full milsim, but having basic knowledge about tactics makes the game play more pleasant.

[Ducky]

 Guys don't plan way way a head. I think we need start from the basics and then go to more into specific roles such (Pilots, Tank crew and etc).

 

In addition, we need to solve one very important thing, that is to convert or push a part/all Ahoy Community into more serious and coordinated team.

This going to be a hard part.

[JuX]

Although I do think that ''ranks''is an issue, since you could say : ''Who's going to host/lead these trainings''and ''Core staff/admins dont`t always want to host these sessions and monitor them''. There should be a motivated group of people accessible who have f.e a weekly password for ( maybe?) EU4 with the training mission on it. They can take a group of players who are motivated enough to sign up ( like game nights sheets perhaps?).

 

 

Perhaps people could apply for instructor qualifications in certain aspect or multiple aspects. Then become approved / qualified by admins.

(Doesn't necessarily require demonstration to be approved, long as any admin can vouch for their skill).

 

Example. Applying for flight instructor (jets, choppers) and officer training instructor (squad lead, fireteam lead, cadet training[CO]).

 

If we have training server or training days, we could potentially have forum branch for instructors to post when they are coming online. Perhaps accepting

to join their training could potentially be applied through giving ahoy coin for their post.

[Ducky]

First thing first, do basic training first and then we can see what will come out of it.

 

I think there is no point to plan and make training sessions for pilots (Helicopter or Jet) and tank crew because we don't have enough people in the community to fill every little role.

[Johnson]

The Main problem I noticed is that everyone is to impatient for it. If they have to drive any vehicle further than 2.5-3km its like a big no no, and everyone runs to the helicopter.

 

This sucks because there really Is no way to have any ground vehicles supporting the troops, because they take "To long" to get there. And then it results into a CAS plane or helicopter being called in, which is totally unnecessary and way OP for the vehicles the opposing faction uses.

 

The truth is, I can not remember any mission where a A10 or Apache was necessary, and they are way over utilized. If you want CAS, use a fucking AH9, that requires some skill to use. If you get shot, its because the pilot sucks at flying it and didn't use the right tactics. 

Yeah I absolutely agree, I want to see a lot less "tactical close insertion" shit and only use choppers when needed like MEDEVAC. Some more ground based stuff is so much more fun and interesting.

[FrOzT]

as a more or less regular pilot i actually second you there johnson..i would like to see chopper less used, and when used it should actually be needed, for as you say MEDEVAC or resupply of ammo and such, IF needed. at least on a map the size of chernarus. IF we were to venture over to larger maps in the future i could see troop insertions to an AO as a more regular happening, but also then NOT to close to the objective but far enoug out so that you still get the infantry grunt work of the game. patrols, firedrills, ambushes and so on....

[razgriz33]

So it's fair to say, there's interest in this topic. Have no doubt we'll do it tastefully and expect it in our usual semi casual style.