UAV OP slot change?

[Valkyyr]

I was wondering about the viability of swapping out the UAV operator slot in PlatCo with the Rifleman LAT slot in ASL.

 

Since UAV op's can use either fixed wing drones or quadcopters it provides a number of uses I think could be utilized more?

 - Lazing targets for Vortex CAS

 - Destroying targets lazed by ground troops; potential for the Marksman to take on more of an overwatch/scout role?

 - Simple recon of an AO when only ground troops are available with no Vortex

 - Interchangeability without leaving an AO. 

 

Since it holds no drawbacks to being up in the air at the time (besides fuel), command can choose to either use the asset for whatever purpose or simply have the operator resume a rifleman role whilst the UAV is in a holding pattern. Which leads to why I thought the Rifleman LAT slot would be a suitable swap.

 

AT always seems to be a slot taken very quickly, and is accompanied by two other LAT slots alone in A1 & A2. I don't have the play time near as much to any other regulars, but I rarely see all AT roles using their launchers, and if it happens it tends to be a clusterfuck of armour. (I could be wrong - someone with more time may correct me) But this is why I think it'd be useful having a drone as support in the sky. 

[SiegeSix]

I like the idea of splitting UAV operator and marksman off for recon purpose.

Also:

1 hour ago, Valkyyr said:

 - Simple recon of an AO when only ground troops are available with no Vortex

 

[Ryko]

Quote

I like the idea of splitting UAV operator and marksman off for recon purpose.

You can do this with custom squads.

 

We haven't looked at the UAV op role since Gauntlet days, I'm content for people to discuss the role's proper placement (is it a Vortex element?).

[hobnob11]

Can we add the RHS Raven to the intel op? I don't think we should move what is effectively a heavy single seat cas roll (that heli thing has the payload to take out like 10+ btr's) into ASL, moving UAV op out of Plat Co and into its own role, enabled about the same time as vortex 2. so you could choose to have a uav instead of cas.

[Valkyyr]

2 hours ago, hobnob11 said:

Can we add the RHS Raven to the intel op? 

Would love even Intel Op to be able to utilize something like this, just to spruce up that role & add a bit of variety to missions.

 

2 hours ago, hobnob11 said:

what is effectively a heavy single seat cas roll (that heli thing has the payload to take out like 10+ btr's)

I think (could be wrong) what youre referring to is the MQ-12? If so this isnt quite what I had in mind, I was thinking more along the lines of the simple greyhawk which only has two GBU capability along with a laser designator. With the idea being that the designator can be used to assist vortex cas first & primarily, or, assist ground forces when theyve used all their AT.

[Minipily]

I've used the UAV op a few times on Stilletto, you should be able to utilise an array of UAV's with it including the Raven.

 

Just because it's in Platoon doesn't mean it can't be used, if ASL or whoever is leading is okay with it then knock yourselves out. It's obviously a great role for Recon and sometimes even CAS if required.

[Amentes]

It's important to keep in mind that the UAV Operator can't use the terminal without being stationary and losing all awareness of what goes on around him.

 

This is a key reason of why he shouldn't ever be assigned to any element that's expected to move around, which includes the Squad Leaders team and I'd argue any Recon team.

 

It's certainly possible for a team such as Recon to bring a Darter along, but IMHO it's better if they don't control it themselves.

If they did, it would be a useless asset anytime the team was moving, which is the time where it'd be most useful to them.

[SiegeSix]

9 hours ago, hobnob11 said:

Can we add the RHS Raven to the intel op?

Actually this might be better than UAV in ASL

[Colsta]

Players discussing these kind of things is a good sign.

 

However, please don't suggest more rules for slotting up. One of the goals of the remake was to cut down on them and make them less confusing and convoluted.

[SiegeSix]

Okay, I've rethought a lot of this. I wanna get my BIASED opinion on the table. This have been thought through as if I WERE the UAV operator in ASL and if I WERE Intel Operative with raven in ASL.

 

UAV Operator:

As @Amentes mentioned, you'd have to be stationary. This would mean we would have to stop for me to access my tablet (UAV Terminal), or I would have to be in a moving/static vehicle. Either way we're looking at a position where I can't act as a rifleman and UAV Operator at the same time. 

If I lose my situation awareness in a situation where returning fire is crucial, I would be nothing but a shitty asset to my team.

 

Intel Operative w/ Raven:

I could deploy already at the point of landing our helicopter or before an advance. This would make me a static asset, but I would also be an active asset as I am supposed to gather intel. 

Having a "tiny" raven is better than a "big" UAV flying around. It is also easy to unpack and repack, as well as deploying and taking down. As a Intel Operative, you're not just a CIA operative who has better chances talking with civvies, you know can relay information on enemy movements as well. 

 

My final conclusion:

I'd like the Intel Operative w/ Raven. Call me biased, but I'd rather have a swift drone to deploy. On the plus side, this would bring a new meta to the gameplay, but it would be a faster way of gaining recon on a certain area, than having vortex in his loud and big helicopter/plane do it. You have to take in to account the MANPADS/SAM/Anti-Air vehicles.

 

Grant access the Raven to the Intel Operative and you've got a new meta, but a good one.

 

PS: I feel I left out some important notes, but do comment on here saying your opinion.

[Valkyyr]

1 hour ago, SiegeSix said:

 

UAV Operator:

As @Amentes mentioned, you'd have to be stationary.

 

 

Only when needing to give commands or use the turret/camera controls. Its no issue setting up numerous pathways or holding patterns for the UAV prior to moving. Granted this may not be wanted every single time.

 

1 hour ago, SiegeSix said:

Intel Operative w/ Raven:

I could deploy already at the point of landing our helicopter or before an advance. 

Specifically in the case of the raven, you need several meters of open space since its fixed wing for it to take off and land, im not against Intel Op using the drone I think its a great idea, this was just another point to my UAV op argument using quadcopters. 

 

1 hour ago, SiegeSix said:

Having a "tiny" raven is better than a "big" UAV flying around. It is also easy to unpack and repack, as well as deploying and taking down.

At 2000m altitude I wouldnt say a Yabhon is "big". But I see your point. Although at least the Yabhon would have a greater run time & be able to do something against those armoured vehicles approaching.

 

Maybe a middle ground here would be sound, having drones with the intel op makes sense too. I should reiterate im only for more use of UAV's (cas), not a whole rework of roles.

[Amentes]

The Raven is launched by hand; literally. It doesn't require a miniature runway to land either, as it essentially stalls itself out while low over its intended landing position, followed by the drop to the ground.

 

Yes, you can set waypoints for the UAVs, but you can't use any of their primary functions without becoming an ostrich.

For perspective, we currently employ UAVs as the Platoon level. Around the world, assets like these are largely fielded one level up from that.

 

I'm not overly fond of the idea of adding UAVs to any role on the Squad level, as it'd likely add to the already prevalent tendency for SL to be stationary and well behind the fireteams.

 

That's something we need to move away from, not towards

[Johnson]

Me and Hybrid tested how well a UAV Operator inside Alpha would work, wasn't great. Alpha is a leading, offensive element and having the Intel Op. use the UAV made it less so.

 

I think the Intel Op. could be given the Raven alone, but only under the supervision and consent of ASL; no ASL, no UAV.

[Walk'N]

12 hours ago, J0hnson said:

I think the Intel Op. could be given the Raven alone, but only under the supervision and consent of ASL; no ASL, no UAV.

I saw the stream of @hobnob11 and the tries of UAV's...

I think small UAV (like darter) could be used by Intel.Op (or/and Spec.Op during scenarios) to scout before running into AOs (Use with restraint but with or without any advice of ASL)

Biggest should be used with as in EU1 & EU2 by a pilot who will be not "Vortex" but "DeathStar"/"Eagle"/"WhateverMeaningfull"

P.S.: the utility drones can be awesome in some situation(resupply, AT launcher delivery...)

[Noah_Hero]

4 hours ago, Walk'N said:

I think small UAV (like darter) could be used by Intel.Op

makes him stationary and that still shouldn´t happen since he is a member of a fireteam since that is what ASL-team is in Stiletto

 

4 hours ago, Walk'N said:

to scout before running into AOs

ever heard of HuntIR? That is exactly what it does.

 

4 hours ago, Walk'N said:

but with or without any advice of ASL)

why would you ever start deciding stuff on your own when you aren´t even a FTL? Seems to be the oppostite of "Obey the Chain of Command" (rule nr. 1)

 

4 hours ago, Walk'N said:

should be used with as in EU1 & EU2 by a pilot who will be not "Vortex" but "DeathStar"/"Eagle"/"WhateverMeaningfull"

We already have a UAV OP and he should be used the same way as it should be on EU1: By staying in base and using big drones.

 

4 hours ago, Walk'N said:

the utility drones can be awesome in some situation

And the rest of the time they are just useless while even taking away a player from infantry.

4 hours ago, Walk'N said:

resupply, AT launcher delivery...

so pretty much what LOGI and Vortex is for but without beeing effective

[Walk'N]

Thanks Noah for making remark about I may have badly explain in my point of view 

12 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

makes him stationary and that still shouldn´t happen since he is a member of a fireteam since that is what ASL-team is in Stiletto

To my mind it was before leaving the base or leaving the previous AO, the advantages of drones is that you can programm them to move by themselves and just get back to them when you need one precise intel... And so you are not more stationnary than when you gather intels from the whole FOE platoon...

18 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

ever heard of HuntIR? That is exactly what it does.

Heard of it but never used it (is that bad Doc?)

If what I heard is correct, you launch it from grenade launcher,isn't it? The UAV got quite a better range I think... (and i saw a stream where the HuntIR caused FPS drop/lags when looking in its direction

21 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

why would you ever start deciding stuff on your own when you aren´t even a FTL? Seems to be the oppostite of "Obey the Chain of Command" (rule nr. 1)

Yeh, I know rules but sometimes it happen the Intel.Op is in fact SL (so deciding stuff on your own kinda lead the squad, isn't it?) and initiatives aren't always bad.

To my mind the intel operative is the "smart" guy who tries to prevent bootstrap, unwanted meeting with MBT and so on... So the fact he got the control of the Raven or Darter to deal with it and to communicate information with his squad lead (even if his leader didn't ask him to do it) is positive to my mind.

29 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

We already have a UAV OP and he should be used the same way as it should be on EU1: By staying in base and using big drones.

I totaly agree with that(UAV dudes use to move to AO on EU1 & EU2, i forgot this, long time no see...)

I don't remember seeing any UAV op on AWE but on this point I agree...

31 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

And the rest of the time they are just useless while even taking away a player from infantry.

40 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

so pretty much what LOGI and Vortex is for but without beeing effective

I thought of the case when few people are still up on the AO and going low on ammo, it could help them by bringing resupply (meds & ammo).
I think of this as an aid that is provided maybe by logi or by vortex because once the drone is filled and programmed, no need to concern...

The thing is a drone is usefull because you can do stuff without risking Vortex to be shotdown in a potentially HOT area

 

I hope i'm more clear than in my previous post

 

[Valkyyr]

Hi guys, just a quick thanks for all the input, wasn't expecting much of a discussion or many replies to be honest. I'd just like to clarify on a couple of things I had in mind when posting the topic & some other points.

 

• I realise the deficit of having someone using the terminal for UAV's whilst in an AO with a squad, he will become stationary & a liability for the duration. The idea behind me suggesting/mentioning the holding patterns of UAV's was for all those occasions where Alpha aren't moving, I don't think Alpha/ground forces are forever on the move are they?
• I never intended for it to sound as though such a role would only lead to the player becoming glued to the terminal, and thus remove the necessity for such a role to use a gun. By the end of it, every role carries a rifle, and every role is first and foremost a rifleman, with added specialities for use as and when required.
• I never intended for it to sound as though a hard copy of the current UAV Operator, or its play style simply be incorporated into Alpha and be left as such, or for the only role to ever be considered for removal be the Rifleman LAT. I see and recognize the slightly contradicting first line of said post. 

  On 1/26/2018 at 5:34 PM, Valkyyr said:

  I was wondering about the viability of swapping out the UAV operator slot in PlatCo with the Rifleman LAT slot in ASL.

  But this was the first role I saw, with my game time and experience that seemed the most logical.

• I wanted this discussion to take place as I enjoy playing a UAV Operator and giving intel to leads on enemy assets/positions and figured this was something that could be better utilized in AWE in some way.

Cheers guys <3