RHS 0.4.1 Release

[Johnson]

(The main point of this fairly large post is highlighted in GREEN near the bottom

if you dont happen to be in the mood for reading, might find it interesting though )

 

So with the new 0.4.1 release being brought to us by the messiah of a mod that is RHS, it honestly seems to me like the necessity for CUP and other related mods grows ever smaller.

The new RHS update ads some pretty damn cool new weapons like their own Hk416, M107 and L72A7 as well as a kiloton of new features that have been long awaited and wanted but also some unexpected and awesome in their own way (like the grips on AR-15 platforms being moved to the bipod section of a arsenal).

 

Nice new RHS uniforms have also been added to the cluster and many new vehicles and vehicle improvements have been made for both the US and RU factions (such as the awesome new boat the Mk. V SOC which can hold 32 passengers and 7 crew which consist of a mini-gun, a GMG, 2 HMGs, a technician seat, a commander seat and a driver seat).

Overall RHS US and RU factions have had a massive update (especially US) which have only made the mod more lovable, for myself anyway.

 

Not only this, we have been lucky enough to receive another RHS mod 'RHS:GREF' on the repo which seems to be a rebel/insurgent based pack focusing outside of the US and RU packs adding in many vehicles seen in CUP (furthur decreasing CUP's need in my opinion).

Vehicles such as the BRDM-2 and the UAZ-31 can be found in GREF as well as other vehicles also seen in CUP. Texture and modelling wise, GREF also use Arma 2 ported textures I believe and when it comes to actual looks, the CUP and GREF vehicle models are near identical (with GREF being slightly better with texturing and sharpening of the A2 models for A3).

 

RHS:GREF also adds in some new weapons, clothing and units seeming based around Slavic 1960's eras.

 

With the introduction of GREF AND the massive new improvements, additions and updates to RHS US and RU factions it only seems to me that CUP is not needed anymore as I have never been a fan and with these 3 mods being implemented I feel that it only solidifies this point. When it comes to British units however (if that is an interest on EU#3 which its not for myself) I feel that the possibility of actually using a BAF unit mod or pack would be better than sticking with CUP. Introducing a BAF mod instead of CUP would most likely decrease repo space as well as add better quality and better made equipment for any of Ryko's BAF missions.

I honestly think that its time for CUP to go but im fairly biased towards this idea. How do you guys feel about it? Would love to hear other peoples angles and opinions! 

 

P.S the image of the M24 rifle is a sneak peek from RHS and is not in the 0.4.1 version, something extra to look forward to though right?  (Also full RHS changelog can be found HERE for anybody who wants to know specifics or wishes to simply see for themselves).

 

- Johnson

 

[Minipily]

I agree with Johnson myself, I believe CUP is mostly useless and what little of it we do use, you can either already get in RHS or is awaiting us in a better mod.

 

From what I understand, a large portion of why we use CUP is to use British Army gear, vehicles and equipment. Rather than using CUP for this, why not get a dedicated BAF mod? There's loads out there that I've sometimes used and they are incredibly detailed and well made. In addition, we use it for new enemies when really, there's LOTS you can do with RHS and with the addition of independent, there is even more.

 

For me and others, we believe it should be quality over quantity, if what we do use is limited, people will learn to like that a lot more. It's worked for me and a lot of others over the years of Arma 3 Modding.

 

[Johnson]

To add to Mini's point about lots of RHS units to be used as enemies on EU#3, not only does RHS:AFRF add a fair amount of uniforms for hostiles but also (if rebels or insurgents are the intended enemy on a mission) then RHS:GREF can certainly satisfy the need for clothing clothing related to these styles of enemies. + RHS uniforms always look well made and detailed so its a win-win!

[Amentes]

I don't really wanna get into the mix on which mod pack is better than which.

 

My preference would be choosing something and sticking with it, both in terms of mod packs, but also in terms of equipment used on server.

 

To be blunt, it doesn't help new players, drivers and pilots especially, that we use different vehicles and equipment on a per-map basis.

 

I don't care what gear we use. I don't care if we mix and match from factions. I'd just like it to be consistent across all Gauntlet maps.

[GhostDragon]

Thank you amentes your point is the biggest thing, WE DONT CARE WHAT FACTIONS WE PLAY AS OR IF ITS MIXED, meaning let us have a variety of vehicles and let us have an arsenal so we can run around as a force that we are happy with locking it down takes away from the appeal of the server.

Would also like to add I'm all for saying bye to cup weapons they don't really add anything now.

[Ryko]

Well - sticking to one consistent set of gear / vehicles / units / faction between maps would make my life a whole lot easier.  It would also make repo issues a lot easier, as well.  I suspect the heartache that will follow about deciding what that faction, and what that gear will be, will be very entertaining to watch.

 

The most obvious choice would be US ARMY, as that has the most varied set of gear and vehicles available in the RHS set.  We can still include Marines assets from RHS, but if we remove CUP that will mean no Merlins, no Harriers, no British gear... and no, we probably will not move to getting a dedicated BAF mod, because reducing the size of the repo solves other problems and makes it easier for new players to join.

 

The other thing to consider is one of the reasons we moved to CUP was to include the Takistani units in CUP units, for use as OPFOR in maps like Zargabad and Fallujah.  Otherwise the only OPFOR from RHS will be Russians or whatever GREF has.  An option there could be to adopt Leight's OPFOR (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27353). That's 893MB. However CUP weapons is 1.4GB, and CUP units is 2.2GB, so overall it's a net savings.  Add on to that that we could possibly remove some of the CUP terrains we don't use and we could slim down the repo even more.

 

If people are still hot on different uniforms, we could also examine Caboose' suggestion of the VSM gear pack (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=29775). It offers some pretty compelling uniforms at 544MB.

 

Regarding vehicles, a possible alternative may be to pick and choose individual PBOs from the CUP vehicles pack (personally, I'll miss the Harrier to death), assuming there are no dependencies which break everything (vehicles might depend on weapons). As it stands CUP vehicles is 3.7GB, so we slim down the repo tremendously by removing that.

 

There's also one last important thing to consider about CUP vs RHS: we have been having issues lately with damage models (ie., an RHS weapon attacking a CUP asset).  The RHS 4.1 update may have addressed this, but the easiest solution might be to just go with RHS.

 

I haven't come down one way or another on what I'd prefer, but I'm leaning towards RHS only.

 

- R

[S0zi0p4th]

18 minutes ago, Ryko said:

Regarding vehicles, a possible alternative may be to pick and choose individual PBOs from the CUP vehicles pack (personally, I'll miss the Harrier to death), assuming there are no dependencies which break everything (vehicles might depend on weapons). As it stands CUP vehicles is 3.7GB, so we slim down the repo tremendously by removing that.

 

1 major problem with CUP vehicles its Dependent on Cup units and weapons i had  a small chat with the CUP guys and its not doable to make a standalone pack for the vehicles  because the size whould increase to be the same as we have now roughly 

[Minipily]

5 hours ago, Amentes said:

I don't really wanna get into the mix on which mod pack is better than which.

 

My preference would be choosing something and sticking with it, both in terms of mod packs, but also in terms of equipment used on server.

 

To be blunt, it doesn't help new players, drivers and pilots especially, that we use different vehicles and equipment on a per-map basis.

 

I don't care what gear we use. I don't care if we mix and match from factions. I'd just like it to be consistent across all Gauntlet maps.

 

So basically what your saying it what we're saying except you don't really care about it as much but yeah.

 

Remove the overwhelming amount of vehicles and gear and shit and limit to a consistent vehicle and gear set like RHS.

[Johnson]

Good points, I dont think theres anything that CUP has to offer for EU#3 anymore, in my opinion.

@Ryko -

I dont think that sticking to simply US Army is necessary on EU#3, we could easily use Marines on some maps, like where you would expect to see Marines (Naval locations like Chernarus and Serhani) while the US Army could be seen more on maps like Fallujah and Takistan. Also GREF adds about the same amount of CUP gear we actually use as hostiles.

 

@Amentes - 

5 hours ago, Amentes said:

To be blunt, it doesn't help new players, drivers and pilots especially, that we use different vehicles and equipment on a per-map basis.

Honeslty Amentes I dont think that new players are gunna be confused that we use different gear on different maps, a gun is a gun, a truck is a truck and a chopper is a chopper no matter which map we are on.

However, if you are talking about how new players might find it difficult to load or use gear from the arsenal from one map to another, the answer lies not within the repo but the arsenal limitations.

 

Also were not trying to say that the reason to get rid of CUP is because RHS is a better mod but instead because it contains the same CUP gear that we actually use on EU#3, RHS just also happens to texture these items generally better, so why would we keep CUP?

[Amentes]

2 minutes ago, J0hnson said:

I dont think that new players are gunna be confused that we use different gear on different maps, a gun is a gun, a truck is a truck and a chopper is a chopper no matter which map we are on.

 

A large majority of the firearms we use behave in very similar ways, yes.

 

The same is not even remotely true for the helicopters and cars we employ.

[Adshield]

I agree with Johnson and Minipily as many of the things added by CUP are improved by mods we already have and can have with a lowered file size. The BAF mod for Arma 3 is partially used by CUP with modified uniform choices, if we used the BAF mod the full uniforms would be there.

The 3CB BAF units mod adds the MTP camo uniforms,helmets,chest rigs and backpacks.

The 3CB BAF vehicles mod adds the Merlin, Lynx, Apache, Jackal and Coyote.

The 3CB BAF weapons mod adds the weapons that the British armed forces use such as the L85.

 

If you really want the landrover i advise the BAF landrover mod or you buy the airfix model.

However the British armed forces no longer use the landrover so Byrnes Ocelot Foxhound would be a better option when it is released.

[Pancake]

I mean if we're worried about repo size with removing CUP and supplementing RHS with a BAF pack then I think that we'll struggle to find one that comes close to CUPs size...

 

[Johnson]

4 minutes ago, Amentes said:

The same is not even remotely true for the helicopters and cars we employ.

What vehicles act or are seen as different across maps? I thought they were all pretty similar and basic.

[Amentes]

Currently we have HMMWVs, MRAPs, Dingos and Coyotes, each of which handles differently and take up more or less space. Maneuvering vehicles around inside a town or a wooded area requires an understanding and familiarity with the size and handling of the vehicle being driven. Heck, I've seen people wreck their vehicle on a paved road.

 

With helicopters it gets much, much worse.

[Minipily]

22 minutes ago, Amentes said:

Currently we have HMMWVs, MRAPs, Dingos and Coyotes, each of which handles differently and take up more or less space. Maneuvering vehicles around inside a town or a wooded area requires an understanding and familiarity with the size and handling of the vehicle being driven. Heck, I've seen people wreck their vehicle on a paved road.

 

With helicopters it gets much, much worse.

 

I understand what you mean, when comparing RHS and CUP vehicle maneuverability things get very hairy, so it runs with the point that we are making that limiting vehicles to RHS vehicles will allow people to now have to worry about needing to know how all these different vehicles handle and people won't have any issues if we stick to a few vehicles, hell, people's abilities will grow in these vehicles if they are locked down to using them more.

[Ryko]

Perhaps can people use this thread to indicate, assuming we dumped CUP, what they'd like to see that's currently available in CUP but could be ported in from smaller, alternate sources?  Adshield has already suggested the BAF modpack:

 

3CB BAF Units: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27201 (1MB)

3CB BAF Weapons: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28645 (329MB)

3CB BAF Vehicles: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27203 (232MB)

and we'd probably need

3CB BAF Equipment: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=29033 (333MB)

 

Personally, I'd include:

For US Marines:

AV-8B Harrier II - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26840 (32MB)

Burnes Armories AAV - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26709 (49MB)

LAV-25 - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26187 (42MB)

F/A-18 - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22594 (72MB, I never get tired of suggesting this one)

Benelli M4 Super 90 Pack - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=21870 (20MB)

 

For OPFOR:

Leight's OPFOR Pack - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27353 (893MB), or a slimmer option could be

sub Insurgents - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27335 (1MB, dependent on RHS)

 

Quote

its not doable to make a standalone pack for the vehicles

 

Well that settles it for me, I'd say we ditch CUP weapons / vehicles / units and just make our own EU3 pack out of a variety of MODs.

 

[Minipily]

3 hours ago, Ryko said:

Personally, I'd include:

For US Marines:

Burnes Armories AAV - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26709 (49MB)

F/A-18 - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22594 (72MB, I never get tired of suggesting this one)

 

Stop, I can only get so erect.

[Johnson]

3 hours ago, Ryko said:

For US Marines:

AV-8B Harrier II - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26840 (32MB)

Burnes Armories AAV - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26709 (49MB)

LAV-25 - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26187 (42MB)

F/A-18 - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22594 (72MB, I never get tired of suggesting this one)

Benelli M4 Super 90 Pack - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=21870 (20MB)

 

For OPFOR:

Leight's OPFOR Pack - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27353 (893MB), or a slimmer option could be

sub Insurgents - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27335 (1MB, dependent on RHS)

1. I dont think the harrier is really needed or suitable to USMC is we have a F/18. + The F/18 can be made USMC, USN and US Army so it ties in with the point of less vehicle variation between maps.

 

2. That AAV would be great + Burnes is known for making some good vics.

 

3. F/18 would be great, as usual, as a largely multi-role and cross-unit aircraft.

 

4. Dont really think that the shotgun will add anything to EU#3 due to the fact that only engineers can use shotguns and scenarios rarely call for this type of weapon. + RHS do have a shotgun that can be used if so rarely needed.

 

5. I honestly dont think any extra unit packs are needed for insurgents or general hostiles, RHS already offers what is seemingly a sufficient amount of units from basic gear rebels and insurgents to top tier Speznaz.

As for the addition of a BAF mod I think it would be SO much better to use than CUP (so I completely agree with your idea Ryko) but personally im not too bothered. My main interest is in US Army and USMC gearing.

[Ryko]

With these file sizes, I don't see any real problem with adding most of the MODs you had a problem with, unless they cause technical problems to the mission.  On the contrary 3CB BAF could be problematic being almost 1GB worth of MODs.  However, given we would be freeing up 7.3GB from removing CUP (Weapons = 1.4GB, Units = 2.2GB, Vehicles = 3.7GB) I feel we have a bit of potential latitude.

 

RHS doesn't include Takistan or Insurgents-style OPFOR (GREF is a Russian rebel-style OPFOR), so unless there are other choices, Gauntlet OPFOR will always be zee Russians.  It's why I wanted to include PLA China but we all know how that turned out.

[Johnson]

Yeah well I completely agree, removing CUP will free up a lot of unused space on the repo that we can purpose for mods we wish for. Personally, I would be happy with Russian rebels in replacement of Insurgents as most of the rebels gear and equipment is equal to that of the CUP insurgents we currently fight.

As for the massive repo space in the absence of CUP I would suggest ontop of the already discussed mods (BAF, F/18 ect.) that we also add the following:

- TF47 launchers (78.2mb) (I know why we removed it however the MAT role is pretty bland without the mixed choice of weapons. Currently the only weapon option is the SMAW which is a very fun weapon to operate however the return of the MAAWs would certainly spice things up a bit)

 

- RH Pistols (Not too sure why this one was removed however it would, again, bring some more interesting weapons and attachments back into the selection for EU#3 however I'm really not bothered about this mod in particular, I'm personally equally as happy without it and I'm sure its absence will have no effect on EU#3)
 

- Burnes' LCAC (21.2mb) (Again, not too sure what problems or issues that caused this to be removed but as far as I am aware it should be working fine. + This would make a great replacement for the Mk.10 as the Mk.10 is a British landing craft and dosnt really fit in with the whole 'Marine' style or units whereas the LCAC is literally used in the USMC. I think this is probably the most important of the 3 to introduce back into EU#3.

[S0zi0p4th]

5 hours ago, J0hnson said:

- Burnes' LCAC (21.2mb) (Again, not too sure what problems or issues that caused this to be removed but as far as I am aware it should be working fine. + This would make a great replacement for the Mk.10 as the Mk.10 is a British landing craft and dosnt really fit in with the whole 'Marine' style or units whereas the LCAC is literally used in the USMC. I think this is probably the most important of the 3 to introduce back into EU#3.

Iff you ever ran with the LCAC you know what the problems are  its buggy and desyncing like a maniac on dedi's  and sometimes its fully fine 

[Ryko]

I was also thinking about tf47 for the maaws, good suggestion.  I agree with sozio about the lcac; also I would avoid the landing crasft in general because it slows the gameplay down horribly.

[MessedUpSmiley]

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/190854-ace-chestpack-yet-another-backpack-on-belly-mod/

[Amentes]

Do we really need BAF? It really seem to me like BAF is mostly about some of our British members wanting to use British weapons and vehicles.

 

So ok, are we gonna need a Swedish Armed Forces mod soon? We have about as many Swedes around as we have Brits.

 

Don't get me wrong, but as I've said earlier, my own preference is picking something and sticking with it, as I believe it will make our playerbase more proficient.

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, Amentes said:

Do we really need BAF? It really seem to me like BAF is mostly about some of our British members wanting to use British weapons and vehicles.

 

So ok, are we gonna need a Swedish Armed Forces mod soon? We have about as many Swedes around as we have Brits.

 

Don't get me wrong, but as I've said earlier, my own preference is picking something and sticking with it, as I believe it will make our playerbase more proficient.

I dont personally care for BAF as I'm more of a fan of USMC stuff but I dont think Ryko made a mission with BAF so that British players are satisfied but instead because it sort of brings another gameplay aspect I guess? As youve said before Amentes, Jackels and such perform much different as light recon vics compared to the other armored Humvees we use. So by using a BAF mod it would compensate for the lack of BAF gear after removing CUP.

 

3 hours ago, Ryko said:

 I agree with sozio about the lcac; also I would avoid the landing crasft in general because it slows the gameplay down horribly

Hmmmmm perhaps instead of the LCAC we could use the new RHS boat as a means of transportation for infantry, it can hold like 40 people and it would certainly be faster than the Mk.10. As for vehicles perhaps we can stick to simple sling loading via CH-53 for over-sea transportation (which should be able to lift up to 32,000lbs which is about 3 times more than the LAV-25 at 10,000lbs). I dont believe that the Sea King can lift any tanks however, despite its massive external capacity so I hope there will be some way around this. Any possible scripts or anything haha? (This would also give pilots a lot more to do during Island invasions rather than just CAS or stay at base).