possiblyEOD

Welcome, enjoy being here, there's plenty of lurkers around!

Welcome, enjoy being here, there's plenty of lurkers around!

After playing I&A for a while, I finally decided to join the forums!
 
Don't mind me though, I'm just here to lurk and to have a good time 😄

Unfortunately that now seems like a necessity.
 
Realistically it should have been in place (and might have) from the start but it now seems inevitable that it is needed.
 
(I'm also in the same boat and don't know all the details as I can only see the fallout.)
 
As I was going to check out the discord before reconnecting and playing for a bit I noticed people were missing. And that should be the first tell. People shouldn't be missing. Just a thought.
 
That being said I hate to see old friends and people I respect fighting and bickering like this.
 
I really hope you all manage to find a solution here and return to something like it used to be.
 
Just my 2p

Alright, now that this has calmed down a bit: What can we learn from this? What steps can we take to avoid such situations in the future?
 
For instance, it seems to me(*) that some of the rules should be reconsidered, updated, adjusted and clarified (after appropriate community discussion).
I am also under the impression that it would be beneficial to define mandatory procedures and requirements for Admin Reports and Staff Demotions, ideally as part of the rules.
 
What do you think?
 
(*) I was not involved in this conflict and did not know it existed until yesterday.

Yesterday was the first I heard of this, so I dont have all the facts and all of that.
I've been trying to comment on this since yesterday, but I find it really difficult and I don't know what to say. 
It kinda feels like i'm the child of some messy divorce

That being said, its important to me that AhoyWorld is an open community where you are free to roam between here and other places, even as staff.
No one can force anyone to stay here.
As long as you are doing your job as staff here as well as expected of you, then you can do whatever you want wherever you want as long as you are not representing AW.
Whether you can take on staff roles at other places aswell, might be a different story, but I don't think that has happened here? 
 
I would also like to say that no one can blame the one making the report.
A report is simply saying that "Hello, there is something here I think you should have a look at. Here is what I see, do what you would like with this information".
It's then up to the ones who receive this report to decide what to do with it and how to deal with it.
 
I cannot say anything about how the case was handled, as I first learned of it yesterday.
What I will say is that I think there should be a full postmortem with a blameless root cause analysis where you go over why this happened, why the outcome became as it did (And what the outcome is, I don't feel like this has fully played out yet), and what we should do to prevent this in the future.
This has to be led by corestaff (Or a mediator, but they would need full access to the report and all the closed forums involved in this).
It would also have to include the reporter, the one being reported on, all the corestaff and anyone who decided to step down and leave, in order to get the full picture.
 
I would like to challenge all the involved party members to participate in this as it will help not only AW grow, but the whole arma community. (It might also be good for all the parties to get to talk together with everyone having good intentions)
 
Lastly, I would like to say that while this sucks, there are a lot of people here showing a lot of emotions, which tells me one thing:
WE ALL CARE DEEPLY FOR AHOYWORLD!
We might not always agree on the path we should take or how to get there, but in the end, I see a whole lot of people that care a lot and that is good.
It also means that tempers flare sometimes and feelings get the upper hand.
We are all humans, we all make mistakes, including staff.
 
 

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

That's a fair account. I did lose my cool at times yesterday.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

This itn't true. From those medal, which all of us don't posess, you don't get any priviliges. It is just purely cosmetic on your profile-page (kind of like Steam-badges). Zeus priviliges only exist for those that host a mission as Zeus in that very mission and permanently for the two highest staff members as to sort out broken stuff. Admin priviliges are granted based on Leadership and if you're generally helping out.
Other than that, I feared a ranty text again when I read the first lines of your text but am gladfull you proved me wrong, so thanks for keeping your texts civil!
 
I tend to call out people if they are too rude and this time it's you @MidnightRunner. It doesn't matter how frustrating something is, stay polite in public channels.

This has been a really long month for those of us embroiled in this directly. I do not appreciate the peanut gallery and backseat drivers for making this needlessly more complex, and I am immensely sad that people who I respect immensely have made the decision to leave the staff team. I feel this has made Ahoyworld measurably weaker, but I implore you to not be strangers.
 
I think that no staff are above scrutiny and I willingly have presented CS many records of past events in the belief that truth will out and that they can only act on complete information.
 
This information is not available to people below CS by design. Nobody below the CS grade has the full information - not even the person that made the report or the people who were reported. I can happily inform you that the first notification I had to say that I was reported was after action had already been taken against me. This is not our procedure here.
 
This thread has revealed some incredibly incorrect information that is being repeated as truth. This is only possible if people have been discussing something without the full information and allowed it to prejudice them. If this incorrect information was actually correct, then some of the conclusions that people have arrived at would be correct. However...
 
Objective and impartial due process is all that matters when making decisions as a moderator. If we start moderating based on gut feelings we lose the ability to function as a community where people feel safe to have different personalities and are all interesting as individuals - and this is one of the big draws of Ahoyworld. The community is fantastic.
 
I am disappointed that some people with concerns did not make efforts to make them known as soon as they became concerned. Your watchful inaction meant there was more to blow up when things eventually went wrong. I do not know if things would have gone better if the CS reaction to the report had been more comprehensive before a decision was made, but what's done is done.
 
I have also thanked Artemis for her report, as I want to foster a culture where we are all accountable for our actions. Nobody that submits a report that they feel is for the betterment of Ahoyworld can or should be blamed for what happens as a consequence of that report, and I am completely confident that she had Ahoyworld's best interests at heart.
 
I am not going to bear grudges from this, and I will be happy to see any of you in TS or in game.
 
In the spirit of communication, my DMs are open, either here or on discord.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I hate to get involved here but, unfortunately due to the way that said community works. DC rich presence is a vital part of the framework. It isn't an optional mod like on AW. Yes discussions have been made about it and whether it can be turned off or hidden but my conclusion was that if it becomes taboo then it feels wrong.As @MidnightRunner put DC rich presence isn't a form of recruiting the same way that having DC display that I am playing Minecraft or another game isn't recruiting. I among most on ahoyworld have other enjoyments and dislikes outside AW or even arma. It is sad to see this spiral and people take their sides but I will still be friends with as many as possible!

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I understand that you see the discord rich presence differently, but the way you're writing your messages gives me the idea you're taking the message rather personally and are getting agitated. As mentioned we're trying to keep the discussion civil and calm and emotions tend to get in the way of that. Let's try to remain objective so that we can get to a solution. We all have the best interest in mind and I value your opinion greatly.

I didn't really want to comment here, as I didn't, and still don't, know exactly what happened. In fact, today was the first time I'd heard at all about all this, and in truth this thread, whilst being a good thing, has made me a little sad. It is a good thing to air grievances, but unfortunately bickering from either side is never productive, and it's sad to see it from some well known and well respected members of this group.
I may be an Ahoyworld newbie, I've barely been here more than 6 months, and some of you have been moderating forums etc for longer than I've been alive, but I feel I have got to know many of you quite well since I've been here, and I've made some good friends, unfortunately some of whom I will almost definitely see less now this has happened. 
 
At it's base level, this is a community based on arma (and squad (-: ) primarily. None of us (at least I hope) are here for the politics, and if you are, you're in the wrong place in my eyes. We're here to play arma, with, in my (possibly a little biased) opinion some of the best public servers around, some fabulous scheduled ops, and the best and friendliest online community I've been a part of. I hope I still see many of you on EU1&2, or playing along with AWE and ops, even if you take a less involved role or stop interacting with the social side of the community altogether, but overall I hope no one truly falls out. There's a good number of friends here for a reason, but if you do leave, I hope you find another group that's as friendly and accommodating as all of you have been to me, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again in the future.
 
As I said, I don't know enough about this to make a decision, so I'm keeping a neutral view. If anyone wants to rant, complain, or just chat about this or anything else, feel free to PM me.

I think the filing of the report was a perfectly reasonable thing to do and I would say you did the right thing. I doubt most people are mad about the report being filed but instead bothered by the way the report was ultimately handled and discussed.

Right. As I have nothing to lose, I am going to set something straight right here. I filed that that report. I do not mind who knows this anymore. Tiptoeing around these things has not done anyone any favors. I have done my level best to keep this from the community and to wear a happy smile and continue on, business as usual.
 
I did not not expect the whole situation to blow up as it did. But it has and this is due not the situation itself, but to lack of communication, allowing the gossip mills to turn. Did people approach me after they saw my resignation form Pub Mod? Yes they did. Did I answer them with my reasons why? Yes. Because Norris was gone. Because I believed things were not ok. 
 
I feel that my report, based upon personal accounts, observations and screenshots, was indeed an accurate representation and I will stand by this. It was not done in the manner of a witchhunt or because I had some grudge. To even assume that is an insult to the integrity I feel was part of the reason I was Staff in the first place. In fact, the two people are members I held in high esteem and considered friends at a stage. Therefore this was not an easy thing for me to do and I sat on a lot of what I knew for a long time before I felt it because necessary to do this. If not for immediate action then to provide an official record should it become even more necessary to do so.
 
I have 19 years of online community moderation and administration experience. I have walked these streets and knew the warning signs. I could also see the ever-growing fractures in the community long before taking action. Does this make me paranoid? Maybe. I still believe I was acting in in the best interests of the greater community and there was no malice from my side. Nor has there ever been malice. I was a Moderator doing my job and following due diligence.
 
I have lost a community that in part saved me the past few months. I have lost friends. This result could have been avoided and there is so sole person to blame for this. Perhaps I can too be blamed for my role in this.
 
Make me your villain (to quote Shadow and Bone) if it makes things easier to manage. I am tired, my health has gone to shit and I want to just move along. 

I'm saddened at the loss of staff but most of all of the breakdown in communication. There has been a clear lack of it from many of us. In my line of work there is a saying that assumptions kill as without being certain of a situation you can't make a decision that's right for what you face. Though I can't say for certain I get the feeling that a lot of things have been based on emotion and assumptions. This in itself is based on assumptions and partial information, and as mentioned, those kill. I hope you won't filify me for that but with it hope to create some understanding and perspective from my end. I am glad CS ultimately took the time to evaluate everything ensuring there would be as little room to make assumptions.

Could this have gone faster, yes. But it's fair to say that Core Staff, as well as regular Staff are not full-time employees. We all put in our effort on a basis of free will, Which means we may not always have the time do something in an adequate time frame. Furthermore we are all free to act as we please in response to things. By this I mean that resigning as Staff is a decision I can respect albeit I am saddened by the decision.

Each community provides something else and I love Ahoy for what it offers. I see myself sitting in channels with others playing games that aren't ARMA. Even sitting in a channel with others playing a game is grand. I can't see myself doing that with any of the other groups I am a part of. The social interaction and the warmness of everyone is a reason I brought Ares along so she could experience that too. I really hope that this is not tarnished after this event. I consider all of you friends even if I don't talk to you equally often. and hope to see you regularly on the AW Teamspeak.

In that sense I would like to call for a calm discussion much like Xwatt just did. Emotions can boil over and we can't always be delicate with what we say. Though as the community we are I am certain we can let any emotional load slide and take what we read critically and respectfully. We are all here to make AhoyWorld better. We each have different ideas of how to do that and by working together, compromising and talking it out we can achieve this. No one is infallible and we should be able to question things. So let's do that evenly and as unbiased as we are capable of while looking for a place to settle in the middle we can all agree on.

 In this thread so far we all agree on a number of things, even if the way we say it obscures that. Props to Xwatt for making the post so we can talk it out!
 

Maybe the point I was trying to get across was unclear, and if that's the case then my apologies. What I aimed to highlight was that Ahoyworld always seems to has phases, some where we are at peak and everyone is enjoying the community, and some where we have a huge incident that happens and we are once again left in a "rebuilding phase." Like the incident that occured recently. What I aimed to highlight was that Ahoyworld needs to aim to have a solid foundation, where when incidents like this occur (which are inevitable) the community needs to be strong enough to quickly recover, rather than taking another two, three or however many years it will take to build up the playerbase again
 

I love all my friends in the Core Staff team, we left on good terms and I always try to check in when I can. But just because they are Core Staff, and they are the highest ranking, in no shape or form should that make them invincible to scrutiny - perhaps quite the opposite. And this in no shape or form means I don't appreciate the time or effort they put in, in fact I believe that most the time their hard work goes unnoticed, and I made this evident in my nominations for the AW end of year rewards. But having such a high rank and responsibility puts them in the centre of spotlight for attention, hence why they seem to get pulled up for scrutiny every time an incident occurs. And it's for good reason, being CS means that you have the responsibility of driving the future of the whole community, and this privilege should be respected, and therefore can be open to scrutiny as any job is. I can disagree and have civil discussion against the way they may run things, but you will never ever see me discredit them as a person.
 
 
Of course, many people have come and gone in the history of AW. But what is perhaps the most distressing about this one is that the staff members who departed were perfectly happy with their role before said incidents occurred, and therefore loss of staff could theoretically been prevented. 
 
 
I have no doubt that AW will live on, it has despite much bigger bullshit being thrown at it in the past, but as mentioned before that isn't the point of this post. What I was aiming to show is that as a community we can't be having these divides so often, because more often than not it hinders our development more than it benefits us.
 
 
also @MidnightRunner I shouldn't be the one having to tell you to tone it down, there are many times as CS I have wanted to act out, but a true leader keeps a level head, even in the most difficult of situations. It is nor a good look for yourself or Ahoyworld.