Spawn snipers in response to vip

[D34TH]

The idea is to spawn *AI* snipers once *BLUEFOR* vip is detected (radio transmission rate/min and voice volume way above avg - "the micromanager / drill sergeant approach" -   for ex)

 

realism : triangulation to find the vip emitting radio pos is achievable without necessarily decoding the transmission, enemy focus on vip once detected is realist

 

doability : spawning AI in response to something is already implemented, presence of LR radio in gear is there , AI LR triangulation/detection of transmission rate/min and voice volume i dunno but should be because would be a nice tool

 

reason: the lack of volunteers for command pos is being tackled by giving extra incentives and training (may or may not solve the core issue), the vip com usage could be tackled by this  approach (in the end, what kind of commander shies away from a good extra challenge? and to keep a low profile in general and minimize vip radio chatter could be a most welcomed challenge imo)

 

*jamming LR transmission  for 1,2 min from time to time could also be a realistic challenge ...

[Miczils]

As much as I like your idea, I don't think that's where AWE wants to go. I think people don't like going CO/ASL because they're afraid of the role, in my opinion, showing them how it isn't as scary as it looks like is the way, instead of making it seem even more dangerous for them.

 

That's why I'm looking forward to Copey's training, hopefully we will see more people trying out ASL, as, in my opinion it really isn't anything to be afraid of

 

Also those snipers would affect ASL but not really do anything to PlatCO, sitting 2km away, and putting a few snipers more that spawn designated only to kill PlatCO will just make the commander focus on hiding away or counter-sniping than actually leading to his best abilities.

[Guest Stip]

Altough i can see where you are coming from and it could be very interesting for certain game modes, i would personally not implement this in Gauntlet.

 

I'd like to see more people taking up ASL, BSL and upper slots. Making that position more difficult, might scare people off.

 

As someone who has played as ASL, BSL a few times i still have a shit ton to learn. I feel like i learn from other ASL's and try to emulate certain attributes the next time i'm in the slot. The more people that play ASL, the more people i can learn from.

 

In short, not a bad idea for cetrain gamemodes! But personally i wouldn't like to see it in Gauntlet.

[D34TH]

I agree some are afraid/don't like to play the SL roles but it is not because of any AI Gauntlet would spawn ... there is another main core reason ...

 

PlatCO is a rare occurrence and would not be affected indeed

 

The idea is not to make SL afraid of snipers but to tone down micromanagement/ sergeant like leading behavior, in a game realistic kind of way

 

SL, PlatCo are management roles and can be rightfully done in many ways, Copey has his own valid way of doing it, befitting his management style, personality and his role in AWE but it is not the only way IMO, it is very useful to do the training and see his approach, but blindly copying it (or asking it from everyone else) might not work for everyone ... and could lead to a groupthink, unwanted phenomenon

 

The unwritten prerequisite of being on the zeus list or admin or being an already recognized good SL, necessary atm to be allowed to try and play command roles (or any other role but common squad member as a matter of fact) without continuous, while on mission, scrutiny/discouraging comments from some who either want that role/asset or would like someone else to have it, or would like only white-listed players to ever have it, or are encouraged to do it, or think it looks cool in a stream,  or just do it cause is what they have seen others do etc is the main core reason IMO and is what makes some people uncomfortable with getting in a command role.

Of course I could be wrong, but my 20 years of real-life people management led me to this opinion.

 

 

 

[Guest Stip]

14 minutes ago, D34TH said:

The unwritten prerequisite of being on the zeus list or admin or being an already recognized good SL, necessary atm to be allowed to try and play command roles (or any other role but common squad member as a matter of fact) without continuous, while on mission, scrutiny/discouraging comments from some who either want that role/asset or would like someone else to have it, or would like only a white-listed players to ever have it, or are encouraged to do it, or think it looks cool in a stream,  or just do it cause is what they have seen others do etc is the main core reason IMO and is what makes some people uncomfortable with getting in a command role.

Of course I could be wrong, but my 20 years of real-life people management led me to this opinion.

 

Not gonna lie, that took me 3 tries to understand that , sentence.

 

[D34TH]

2 minutes ago, Stip said:

 

Not gonna lie, that took me 3 tries to understand that , sentence.

I am a failed Hemingway wannabe

[Noah_Hero]

I am actually more than happy if only a few experienced players pick SL/CMD because when someone unexperienced takes these ones he´ll most likely ruin the mission/fun...

[Guest Stip]

3 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

I am actually more than happy if only a few experienced players pick SL/CMD because when someone unexperienced takes these ones he´ll most likely ruin the mission/fun...

 

 

Sucks to hear that your ( @Noah_Hero )  experience is being runined by someone who is not up to your standard. However, you must agree that everybody should get a chance to try out all the different roles that Gauntlet provides and the different possibilities that come with it?

Maybe if you come across someone who isn't as experienced, as you would like them to be, adjust your role and help them.

Personally i really appreciate people like @Copey creating situations that help me develop ASL capabilities.

 

The reason I downvoted your remark is the " Most likely ruin the mission/fun" part. In my opinion remarks like these highten the barrier for people to try the role.

[D34TH]

37 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

I am actually more than happy if only a few experienced players pick SL/CMD because when someone unexperienced takes these ones he´ll most likely ruin the mission/fun...

@Noah_Hero i appreciate your honesty as i believe it is time to openly discuss the matter

 

i wonder how would those "experienced" have gotten their experience given the suggested approach.....

 

 this kind of happiness , maybe shared by a few others is what i believe to be the main core reason for the "lack of volunteers for leading roles" problem

 

in plain words, want more volunteers ? then train, help or at least truly let people try, stop continuous negative comments and gossip , stop discouraging them... give advice only at debrief (if you truly have something worthy to advice) and your feedback after 1 month and keep it strictly objective... it is quite simple really ...

 

On a broader note, I think AWE is a great community, best i have seen so far in ARMA, with great effort put into it over many years, but it needs a clear management decision which should reflect in every single aspect and every single player behavior: is it a closed community  or an opened/emerging one, truly welcoming new joiners looking for the unique style of gaming experience AWE represents ?

[Noah_Hero]

21 minutes ago, Stip said:

you must agree that everybody should get a chance to try out all the different roles that Gauntlet provides and the different possibilities that come with it

I totally do!

 

22 minutes ago, Stip said:

The reason I downvoted your remark is the " Most likely ruin the mission/fun" part. In my opinion remarks like these highten the barrier for people to try the role.

No Problem. Well that could happen but if so these people probably will wait until they take leading roles and improve their experience in the meantime. When they then will be confident enough they´ll most likely have enough experience to do a great job.

 

21 minutes ago, D34TH said:

i wonder how would those "experienced" have gotten their experience

Probably by taking roles that are no leading roles and watching and learning how the game and TL works and then at some point they probably picked TL and kept improving their skills while they again where watching and learning how ASL works, etc.

And also now there are training sessions for that making it even easier to gather experience.

 

23 minutes ago, D34TH said:

lack of volunteers for leading roles

Actually atm there is no lack of volunteers I think.

 

24 minutes ago, D34TH said:

in plain words, want more volunteers ?

I do! But experienced enough ones.

 

25 minutes ago, D34TH said:

stop continuous negative comments and gossip , stop discouraging them

I dont do that.

 

25 minutes ago, D34TH said:

give advice only at debrief

That is what I do. Even if the mission takes forever and gets totally fucked up I´ll only give advice/feedback after the mission because most likely everything else will be a breach of CoC.

[D34TH]

7 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

37 minutes ago, D34TH said:

stop continuous negative comments and gossip , stop discouraging them

I dont do that.

it was a general remark not directed at anyone in particular

[Copey]

Okay, a few points I'm gonna drop, and I'll have to be quick about it to because I'm typing this sat waiting to start teaching a class.

 

SL training or experience is the only way to effectively combat inexperience causing bad gameplay for players. Also, even experienced SLs like me sometimes fuck up. Trust me it happens I just don't let you see it

 

I think making the role of a SL harder by adding in elements such as this will not be for the benefit of the server and gameplay. The job is hard enough already, trust me. Not having enough people wanting to lead has been a problem plaguing the server for a long time - as staff we have tried many things to fix it, or alleviate issues.

 

I'm not gonna lie, there are many reasons SLs end up micromanaging things, but a key reason I see again and again is that people are unable to act responsibly enough to be trusted to not be micromanaged. I play SL a lot, and my last stream on the AhoyWorld Twitch channel  is a perfect example of what can happen when there are good team leads. A good TL drives their team forward, communicates with the other TL and has enough common sense and battle sense to operate in a devolved manner. This frees up the SL to lead the squad or command the operation (the latter in the case of my last stream).

 

There isn't a top down fix for the problem - only a solution built from the ground up with the support of all the players in a squad.

[Copey]

Having read what was posted while I was typing that - be careful not to drift off topic.

Even if no finger pointing was intended, it may be perceived; so just be mindful of what is being said.

 

Ta

[Noah_Hero]

4 minutes ago, Copey said:

even experienced SLs like me sometimes fuck up. Trust me it happens I just don't let you see it

Of course but the important things here are the "sometimes" and the "I just don´t let you see it" what implies that these fuck ups are not that major ones where everyone realises that there is a total breakdown of comms or something similar...

 

And did you really just took about 25 minutes to write that?!!

[razgriz33]

Stay on topic, leave policing of English literature to Oxford please.

 

All leadership ideas go here: 

 

[Ryko]

I'm trying to understand the original idea.  Are you suggesting spawning AI BLUFOR snipers on the HVT mission?

[D34TH]

@Ryko nope, i am suggesting spawning AI snipers as response to detecting LR excessive radio chatter by BLUFOR vip (SL, Plat Co )

 

* i will edit for more clarity*

[SiegeSix]

1 minute ago, Ryko said:

I'm trying to understand the original idea.  Are you suggesting spawning AI BLUFOR snipers on the HVT mission?

This is my understanding as well.

 

Maybe not somewhere in the AO, but like the mortars. But without the Intel mentioned in the briefing.

[SiegeSix]

Just now, D34TH said:

@Ryko nope, i am suggesting spawning AI snipers as response to detecting LR excessive radio chatter ....

 

Is it even possible to make AI react to our Long Range radio chatter?

[Ryko]

Quote

nope, i am suggesting spawning AI snipers as response to detecting LR excessive radio chatter ....

 

There are a variety of coding problems with this idea.

 

1) Where do you spawn the sniper(s)? You'll need to find a suitable spot that has overwatch, cover, etc., which may involve spawning your sniper in a building they can't get out of, or in a tree, boulder or something else.

2) How do you encourage the sniper to stay put? You can forceSpeed them to 0, but that means that they're a sitting duck for players.

3) Detecting the amount of LR chatter will be problematic at best, and defining what this means

4) Classic problem of investing a lot of code to produce a result that the players never see.  Gauntlet puts enemies on patrol so their is a chance they will encounter the players. Embedding units in a particular position means the players can get in a position where they are never engaged, putting extra load on the server for no net benefit to players.

 

But, it's a neat idea.

[razgriz33]

Perhaps this is a good idea to post onto whatever mod controls ambient AI? ALIVE is it?

[D34TH]

just some thoughts:

1) spawn on high ground at a random distance from the AO center or the LR radio detected location

2) force prone or get in cover (spawning on high ground gives them some advantage), it wouldn't be more of a sitting duck than the rest of the AI i think

3) definition could be using LR radio with a high frequency of transmissions / minute (not ref to the the freq at which the radio is tuned at  ) for x minutes from approx the same spot, similar to mortar detection script; as far as detecting/locating the chatter source ... that is the most interesting challenge i think (if you want to code true AI triangulation abilities and not just get the position of the SL player or the radio object itself  )

4)spawning at a high ground will solve the not being in play issue as it would be in a position to spot a major part of the AO

 

if it is worth it in terms of time/energy spent to do it this is of course entirely up to you to decide

[Nicolai]

1 hour ago, D34TH said:

[..]

"the micromanager / drill sergeant approach" -   for ex)

[..]

in plain words, want more volunteers ? then train, help or at least truly let people try, stop continuous negative comments and gossip , stop discouraging them... give advice only at debrief (if you truly have something worthy to advice) and your feedback after 1 month and keep it strictly objective... it is quite simple really ...

[..]

 

It would be quite simple, indeed.

 

The micromanager / drill sergeant approach discourages volunteers.

 

It probably doesn't even matter if any objectively valid feedback is included in such an approach or such feedback is being delivered in addition or not, as the approach in itself alienates the players that are hit by such "efforts" and invalidates any ambitions they may have brought with them to the game quickly enough.

 

Everyone is playing the game according to their capabilities, that's not only true for players, also for staff members.

 

Once there is no mission left to play, for whatever result was finally micromanaged (the micromanager is responsible for everything, as nobody else has any sort of responsibility, except being there to be blamed), all that is left is examining pecking orders.

 

Another medium to long term result are ballerina players, who go into the game to show others their capabilities instead of playing a game with the other players, who prefer kick dog memes and topper stories over cooperation.

 

The shit crown of this is then going into ZEUS, to punish players by controlling AI units "to show them their place".

 

I feel with you.

[Colsta]

1 hour ago, Copey said:

be careful not to drift off topic.

 

[BenjaminHL]

Everything about this sounds bad to me <---- Opinion Warning---->. To be blunt try saying what you are thinking out loud, and then see if it still makes sense. However good work on making good code even if it doesn't serve much of a purpose in my mind.