Regarding uses of AK47

[Poet]

I would like to start a topic about uses of the AK47

People claim you cant use it because it is not used by NATO

Well, they are wrong.

 

The AK47 is (And RPG-7) is used by Israel

Wich is a NATO country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_equipment_of_Israel#Small_arms​

[zissou]

Israel isn't a NATO member 

[Lad]

I thought it was simple, you bring minimum 6 mags or 4 belts and if you run dry you ask for ammo, if they can't provide you with some, ask the current CO if you can take an AK or whatever gun is around you. 

 

This is normally what happens during regular gauntlets...

[Blue-958-]

Using an AK incites team killin. If its dark or long range, the main identifying factor between enemy and friendly is the weapon they're using.

[Zak]

Using an AK incites team killin. If its dark or long range, the main identifying factor between enemy and friendly is the weapon they're using.

 

I've seen many people pick up Ak's, and Not a single teamkill

 

actually, i've only seen one teamkill ever on EU#3

[Amentes]

I thought it was simple, you bring minimum 6 mags or 4 belts and if you run dry you ask for ammo, if they can't provide you with some, ask the current CO if you can take an AK or whatever gun is around you. 

 

This is normally what happens during regular gauntlets...

 

Or check with the CO if a rearm can be organized.

[LexMonster]

Albania

2009

Belgium

1949

Bulgaria

2004

Canada

1949

Croatia

2009

Czech Republic

1999

Denmark

1949

Estonia

2004

France

1949

Germany

1955

Greece

1952

Hungary

1999

Iceland

1949

Italy

1949

Latvia

2004

Lithuania

2004

Luxembourg

1949

Netherlands

1949

Norway

1949

Poland

1999

Portugal

1949

Romania

2004

Slovakia

2004

Slovenia

2004

Spain

1982

Turkey

1952

United Kingdom

1949

United States

1949

 

Just to clarify. These are the current NATO States with the year they joined. Source: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_52044.htm

 

In ArmA 3 the NATO still consists of the same members. (Thats why NATO is even in the mix. Greece is in it.)

 

Here some stuff on how Israel is involved:

The Partnership for Peace (PfP) programme was established in 1994 and is based on individual bilateral relations between each partner country and NATO: each country may choose the extent of its participation.[126] Members include all current and former members of the Commonwealth of Independent States.[127] The Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council (EAPC) was first established on 29 May 1997, and is a forum for regular coordination, consultation and dialogue between all fifty participants.[128] The PfP programme is considered the operational wing of the Euro-Atlantic Partnership.[126] Other third countries also have been contacted for participation in some activities of the PfP framework such as Afghanistan.[129]

The European Union (EU) signed a comprehensive package of arrangements with NATO under the Berlin Plus agreement on 16 December 2002. With this agreement the EU was given the possibility to use NATO assets in case it wanted to act independently in an international crisis, on the condition that NATO itself did not want to act—the so-called "right of first refusal."[130] It provides a "double framework" for the EU countries that are also linked with the PfP programme. Additionally, NATO cooperates and discusses their activities with numerous other non-NATO members. The Mediterranean Dialogue was established in 1994 to coordinate in a similar way with Israel and countries in North Africa. The Istanbul Cooperation Initiative was announced in 2004 as a dialog forum for the Middle East along the same lines as the Mediterranean Dialogue. The four participants are also linked through the Gulf Cooperation Council.[131]

 

So,

NO Israel is not a NATO Member BUT it was and still is supported by US. This means: Weapons, Armor and even Air.

 

But LexMonster, why do they use "old" guns then? Eg. the AK?

Those guns are from an earlier era. Same as ISIS uses old Tanks that got left by the Russians or the US because transporting them back is expensive.

 

(If i am wrong on anything please just correct me)

Source: History class + some research

[Colsta]

I've seen many people pick up Ak's, and Not a single teamkill

 

actually, i've only seen one teamkill ever on EU#3

I've done it.

We were getting shot from a general direction. Someone picked up an AK, shot the target, then I shot them, because I didn't see them shooting the Russian, and since they were close enough to warrant an immediate shot but not close enough to notice he was BLUFOR, I killed them. Why? Because I saw the AK and reacted.

Just because it doesn't happen that often doesn't mean the rule shouldn't exist. It's there for a reason.

[Poet]

LexMonster

Is that a yes or a no towards using an AK from arsenal? (And why is it even in there if we cant use it)

[LexMonster]

LexMonster

Is that a yes or a no towards using an AK from arsenal? (And why is it even in there if we cant use it)

It is just some information. I do not play on the EU3 server so i do not think my opinion is of any value, but the information i provided should lead to more educated opinions. (I hope)

[Amentes]

Sound signature of the weapon is a big factor, as is it taking yet another type of ammo. Friendly air might have trouble IDing you as friendly if you're carrying an AK. Same goes for picking up RPGs, you shouldn't do it unless it's neccesary.

 

Goes for turbans and other "taliban-style" stuff as well, if I see a turban over the top of a wall, I might pop the top of your head off.

 

It's bad enough that some NATO uniforms look a lot like Russian uniforms from a distance, lets not make it worse.

[MessedUpSmiley]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally

[Ryko]

Is that a yes or a no towards using an AK from arsenal? (And why is it even in there if we cant use it)

 

It's not in the arsenal in any recent version of Gauntlet, thus, you don't have the option to use it.

 

Yes, Israel (and probably a bunch of other countries, NATO or not) has AK47s.  But your average field soldier is using the TAR-21, or M-16 variant.  AND none of the Gauntlet missions feature Israel as the BLUFOR - we use USA, UK and Germany for the current Gauntlet missions.  Yes, Gauntlet is vague about who BLUFOR is.  There is plenty of opportunity to imagine you're an attached Israeli asset, if that's what floats your boat.  But using OPFOR weapons causes confusion, and on multiple occasions that I can recall, teamkills.

 

The only saving grace of the AKM is its larger bullet.  It doesn't support modern optics.  You are doing your team a disservice by opting to use it rather than asking for replacement ammo.  Does this mean there is never a scenario where it can be used?  No.  Out of ammo, out of options, you pick up what is around and use it, sure.

 

Let me make something clear: one of the major rules on EU3 is the concept of PLAYING YOUR ROLE.  This means trying to use the gear you have been assigned.  Anyone who plays fast and loose with this concept in order to play with OPFOR weapons will be warned, kicked and/or eventually banned.

 

Clear?

 

- R

[Plant1ing]

Currently, some of us on EU#3 have unwritten rule to carry 8 magazines of 5.56 vanilla ammo. We barely even spend 6 magazines which is normal standard of US soldiers. I have never been in situation of spending all my ammunition reserve. Even If I'm in low ammo count, on that 2 magazine reserve, there will always be your BluFor buddy around who will die before you. That's why we are suggesting of using vanilla 5.56. They work on every weapon mod pack catridge. You can always ask your living buddy to pass you a mag. They will be happy to oblige every time. Sharing is caring. If you manage to spend on one AO every magazine and you are about to switch to OpFor weapon, you have a really bad fire discipline or you should work on your aiming since we are engaging targets less than 500 meters. 5.56 can easily kill targets above 600 meters respectfully of altitude and wind strength/direction. I always carry 3 tracer mags just for that purpose. Engaging difficult targets above 500. Even then, I'm doing it wrong. I need to push forward using cover as best as I can.

When AO is finished and you are about to RTB with helicopter transport or sometimes with some of the vehicles, you will find inside 30x 5.56 magazines and 15x 5.56 tracer magazines. All vanilla ones. Everybody can use them. You can go on next AO without even think about RTB for resupply. Problems we are still facing are marksmen, AT launchers and autoriflemen if they are using squatoon special or other LMG that can't load ammo from vehicles which spawns with them. M249 resolves that issue if selected by player.

 

I admit, I was also using 7.62 HK417 12inch now called Assaultier when I was rifleman. I don't know how you can play with that much recoil. One more disadvantage is also weight of the round. You will even carry more weight with that round. With 5.56 you are more agile. There are so many advantages of using 5.56 weapon system.

 

Switching back to original subject.

We had Al-Rayak map with OpFor arsenal. Everybody was hyped. Later, players started whining about AKs because they couldn't kill a single duck. Scopes are bad and iron sight is the best you can get. Still with it you will need to engage 500m targets at top.

Just don't lie to me that you have spent all your 5.56 ammo just to pick up more powerful 7.62 system from the ground. I don't want to see anybody on EU#3 picking up opposite side weapons from the ground. I can allow RPGs only for reason that when we go to the AO we spent most of our AT stuff on ambient AI spawning around us.

 

Don't think that I have something against AKs and that I have some radical mentality when I see a guy with it. Keep in mind that some countries were defended with that weapon. It's one of the best weapon system in the world in every aspect. Add in favor small price on market.

 

Hope I gave constructive feedback as this is how I see these two systems colliding with each other, their advantages and disadvantages.

[Minipily]

I've seen many people pick up Ak's, and Not a single teamkill

 

actually, i've only seen one teamkill ever on EU#3

 

You clearly haven't been here since the start.

 

There's been plenty of TK incidents that happen because of weapon types, this can come down to: Approaching a doorway or alleyway with friendlies on the other side and they see the gun first, people hear the distinct sound and return fire, Nightvision or thermal optics cannot pick up the clothing very well and often the weapon in use plays a key factor and more.

 

But anyway I just carry the amount of magazines my vest shows, if needed I'll throw some extra mags or grenades in my pockets and just try to make the shots count, even if I was to live through an entire AO in fierce fighting I find myself still having a decent amount of ammunition but that's just me.

 

Even then, just remember to carry a suitable amount of ammunition, not too much and not too little, make sure the ammo is compatible so you can share and in turn people will share with you, after all, you're fighting for the man next to you, not the army.

[zissou]

[JuX]

Use of different weapon types that aren't NATO standard isn't the reason why people get teamkilled. If you engage target based sounds of their weapons then your doing it wrong. Knowing your friendly squads positions and identifying their uniforms is how it should be done and that is why people often die cause they look more like the enemy, not cause of the gun they carry. At least thats how i have mostly teamkilled people, cause they used more enemy looking uniforms.

 

In early versions of gauntlet i occationally used AK (NATO attachment compatible) variant on my "Ranger" squad which paradropped in various locations. Using it to obtain ammunition from dead enemies if running low and i NEVER got shot by teammates nor did anyone under my command for using AK, even at times when paradropped in to shitstorm to reinforce / assist friendly squad.

 

 

Blaming "guns people carry" is ridiculous. Sure it can happen, but its not the culprit to problems of teamkilling.

If anything id rather look in to lack of communication and situational awareness.

[Miksi]

Use of different weapon types that aren't NATO standard isn't the reason why people get teamkilled. If you engage target based sounds of their weapons then your doing it wrong. Knowing your friendly squads positions and identifying their uniforms is how it should be done and that is why people often die cause they look more like the enemy, not cause of the gun they carry. At least thats how i have mostly teamkilled people, cause they used more enemy looking uniforms.

 

In early versions of gauntlet i occationally used AK (NATO attachment compatible) variant on my "Ranger" squad which paradropped in various locations. Using it to obtain ammunition from dead enemies if running low and i NEVER got shot by teammates nor did anyone under my command for using AK, even at times when paradropped in to shitstorm to reinforce / assist friendly squad.

 

 

Blaming "guns people carry" is ridiculous. Sure it can happen, but its not the culprit to problems of teamkilling.

If anything id rather look in to lack of communication and situational awareness.

 

I agree with what Jux is saying but that doesn't take away the fact that in a heated situation where you might be part of a different team than the carrier of the AK, there is a chance of accidental friendly fire. We just want to reduce the risk of newer players or older ones firing at each other by restricting the arsenal and having a rule against OPFOR weapons.  

[Cebi]

As I saw yesterday, friendly fire incidents are prominent even without enemy weapon systems. Put players in a forest in a night and they will shoot each other eventually.

 

What is needed to minimalise risk of FF in order of importance is:

1. Fire Discipline

2. Communication

3. Unified Gear and weapon systems

 

1. and 2. are skill based and can't really be addressed on the semi-public server. Unified BDUs, helmets and weapons? What can be easier? When everybody wants to be at least Delta operator lookalike you get FF incidents in adverse conditions.

[Plant1ing]

1. Good briefing for leaders so they know what are actions of other squads and where they will be positioned.

2. Map awareness. You have TL and SL positions on the map. Team elements should be near his TL.

3. Communication. Use it only if necessary. It's not for reading novels, essays. You can read good Haiku tho'.

 

I don't know how TK can actually happen after this.

[Kirk76]

http://imgur.com/yLqH6Lp israel's standard issue rifle is the tavor, altho some infantry still uses the m4/16. also, the RPG-7 is not used and completely obsolete since the MATADOR.

[Guest Bartlett]

I aggree don't carry an ak I'm not sure weather it was Leo or amantes a good few months back popped out of a building and I was auto rifleman and we were just out of shout range I riddled them with bullets as I mistook them for enemies just due to their weapon, luckily they were only nock ed out and I got a medic over fast enough to deal with them. In fact the same goes with RPG-7 I nearly took someone's head off because they had one of those, all I guess I can say is if you feel the need to pick enemy weaponry up then your load out needs a good seeing too!!!

[Eddie]

As I saw yesterday, friendly fire incidents are prominent even without enemy weapon systems. Put players in a forest in a night and they will shoot each other eventually.

 

What is needed to minimalise risk of FF in order of importance is:

1. Fire Discipline

2. Communication

3. Unified Gear and weapon systems

 

1. and 2. are skill based and can't really be addressed on the semi-public server. Unified BDUs, helmets and weapons? What can be easier? When everybody wants to be at least Delta operator lookalike you get FF incidents in adverse conditions.

 

Completely agree with this.

 

-Ren

[Lad]

To jump on the AK side...

 

If you were to get one, ask your FTL or if the SL is close ask him (The FTL will have to ask the ASL about it). If granted, FTL and/or SL now know one is carrying an AK and let the rest have that knowledge. Same goes for the guy who picks up the AK. 

 

I know this is for AK's only, but if you on a hostile uniform or any other clothing, expect FF scenario...