ParabolicAJB

I would just like to thank all who took part and contributed to this gamenight, it was really enjoyable and played out how I have come to expect from EU#3.  Highlight for me was the Chinook crash landing on the roof of A2's house

Hello, so I thought I would weigh in with my opinions on the idea of the stepping stone sever. This basically being from my understanding eu1/eu2 with acre and ace, running the Invade and Annex mission file. Through having these two modules implemented, arguably the most noticeable changes from the non-moded severs to moded severs. I believe this would be a great idea, as it offers the players who play daily on eu1 and eu2 a more in-depth and rewarding experience, without the seriousness and set up of eu3. I notice regularly when i'm on that the eu1 channels have more than 10 players on, and without the radio channels of acre this would seem like a cluster situation when trying to communicate. This implementation would stop this.
 
  From zissou's post there are regularly 420 people who roughly connect to eu1 each day ( can't remember the exact numbers) thus this wouldn't hurt the amount of people playing on that sever. With the argument that this sever would take away from the eu3 player base, this simply isn't true, the players this sever would serve wouldn't play on eu3 in the first place, the would stick to eu1/2 without this sever.
 
   However this being a stepping stone sever may have the affect of these players then moving onto eu3 once they get use to the systems and the more serious nature of gameplay which acre and ace implement into the sever. This does affect eu3, but only through providing the opertunity for people to eventually come over, therefore it's a positive affect.
 
  People have mentioned who would set up this sever, pay for it, admin it etc... this isn't suppose to be set in stone yet, this is the ideas box after all, meant for people to give across ideas for improving the community experience and gameplay opportunities throughout the sever. These questions can be worked out once the idea is agreed on fully by the staff of this place. Everyone is also entitled to their thoughts and views on the ideas listed in this section, everyone is part of the same community even if it doesn't affect them, however censorship of peoples ideas should never take place, just because they don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean there wrong.
 
  In the past ahoyworld hasn't been afraid to set up new severs if the support is there for them. Lets look at the recent squad severs or even go back to the excile severs which we had up in the past when that mod was popular. We even had ksp severs at one point which a few members use to play on.
 
  I would also like to get rid of the idea that eu3 is a huge step up for players who regularly play on eu1/eu2. In reality if you are playing on eu1/eu2 in a relativity co-operative manner, such as the zesus gamenights, then the step up isn't huge at all. The gameplay is relatively similar, with the main change being acre and ace. Yes there are weapon and vehicle mods but these are mainly visual. The changes of ACRE and ACE can be learnt in training gamenights which i'll be willing to help in again once exams are over in the summer, hence why i'm away a lot at the moment. The 20 GB of mods can be downloaded overnight, I don't really see the issue here. I know that people don't like overally controlling squad leaders or team leaders who come across as spiteful, but these people shouldn't be part of the eu3 experience, so any problem with people acting elite over being veteran players should be reports.
 
  In conclusion I believe a stepping stone sever would easy the transition for players from eu1 / eu2 to eu3. Through learning acre and ace without the other mods, It may encourage people to then go on and try the full experience of eu3 without the huge step up which is sometimes off-putting to players.

So i've read a few more posts, the less toxic and more useful ones, and I really began to see that so far the mods suggested pretty much are the mods on EU3 minus the map packs....
 
I smell something coming up here.... 
 
Maybe that's just me.
Now before anyone says where did you get this info from Josh, I shall include it below.
 
John suggested: 
 
ACE (http://www.armaholic...ge.php?id=28557)
ACRE (http://www.armaholic...ge.php?id=11339)
TFAR (http://www.armaholic...ge.php?id=23615)
AH-64D  (http://www.armaholic...ge.php?id=28085)
British Ridgeback PPV (http://www.armaholic...ge.php?id=27955)
F-18 (http://www.armaholic...ge.php?id=22594)
AK Pack (http://www.armaholic...ge.php?id=22862)
 
Shax Suggested:
 
RHS:USAF (2.5GB on its own....)
 
EU#3:
ACE
ACRE/TFAR
RHS are already on there
 
Now to break down some of the other suggested mods.
AH64D Is included in the CUP Packs which EU3 uses
F18 Hasn't been updated since 1.38 we're now on 1.56... Which makes things VERY unstable a liable to dangerous things.
 
 
Basically what i'm getting at here is that if you're going to do this new modded server make it SIMPLE forget all the uniforms, extra vehicles and shit. 
Just use VANILLA arma with some extra stuff like JUST ACE and ACRE.TFAR if not go play EU#3 because TRUST me it really is not that strict there is no milsim bull shit. It is merely a structured TEAMPLAY style. No yes sir no sir bull.
 
Now as said before I support this idea. But I do NOT support it if you're gonna start adding loads of mods: Clothing, Vehicles and weapons because you do not need them for what you're saying.
 
 
Good luck, Josh.

Actually adding a AI enhancement mod like ASR,Vcom,similar could be a nice addition BUT from my experience on A2 running such a mod on a pub server willl get you massive QQ about the AI to strong and similar,altho you can "fine tune" the behaviour/excessivity of the AI in the long run it does not necessary attracts new players - and similar to ACE its a big rewrite/addition of the mission setup too.
I´m all for having smarter AI,but would i join a seperate server just for this? Guess not ...
And you may check if any modifciation of the usual mission may disadvantage the regular guy connecting with no mods at all.
 
 
 
 
spot on
 
 
You guys testing mission files and stuff - can you hand me a number of how many people we r actually talking here?
More or less than 10 people? Just asking out of curiosity - i counted prop 2 handfull people supporting this,when in reality not even 50% will make full time use of such a server  ... i´d appreciate the information.
 
And wouldnt it be easier to just rewrite "some" EU3 missions and limit mods for that certain part of missions so its a easy step in for people new to mods and still getting their fix of hardcore gameplay opposed to EU1/2.
Get rid of the exotic islands,the weapon mod requirement so people with the basic mods can enjoy and the full loaded modpeople can still join in those sessions ...
Seems like a WIN / WIN to me for both sides and AHOY at all.

I think this is a really important point to consider regarding other ACRE/TFAR type mods for communication, I personally don't know of any high profile ones. No amount of mods can compensate for a lack of discipline, the mods can only facilitate better comms with discipline. This could also be related to the point of the more 'relaxed' approach this proposal is aiming at, as some of the rules on EU#3 are there specifically to add enough discipline to communicate effectively (I think this is the principle of Amentes point).
I think the process/rules of communication need to be determined before the most appropriate mod/method can be selected.

I think this is a really important point to consider regarding other ACRE/TFAR type mods for communication, I personally don't know of any high profile ones. No amount of mods can compensate for a lack of discipline, the mods can only facilitate better comms with discipline. This could also be related to the point of the more 'relaxed' approach this proposal is aiming at, as some of the rules on EU#3 are there specifically to add enough discipline to communicate effectively (I think this is the principle of Amentes point).
I think the process/rules of communication need to be determined before the most appropriate mod/method can be selected.

Earlier I posted that perhaps everyone should re-read their own posts to reflect on what they are saying and how it's being interpreted, this suggests to me that you haven't yet done that and your statement is quite plainly untrue (also ironic).As long as it's not offencive or malicious, I don't think there is a problem with it.If your opinion or point is well measured and based on observations/facts, then it would be welcomed, no matter how much you think others may disagree. Given the earlier posts regarding inclusion of ALL the community, I don't think this is an appropriate attitude.I support the idea of a game night with less mods to see how well subscribed such a proposal is, but I feel there is a lot of misinformation (or lack of information) on a few things including how EU#3 actually works (if you haven't played on it then it would be difficult to know), and also how some of the mods impact the game, e.g. ACRE. A game night might help, or perhaps those making or supporting the proposal could do some research and make some informed contributions (e.g. like Gripe has) - this would go a long way to solidifying the proposal and building up more support.

I've re-read this a few times and there is a lot I could reply to however I'm going to suggest that everyone who has posted in this thread re-reads their own posts.
There's a lot of contradictions, especially from those trying to exclude others from voicing their opinions, but then stating there is a divide in the community. I am thankful the moderators have dealt with this.
What is also clear to me is that the original post doesn't accurately describe what is being requested, and to that end others can only reply to what's written, so please be clear and concise when writing your opinion, as ambiguity will lead to less focused discussion.
In summary, my interpretation is that the request is actually for a slim-modded I&A server, NOT a 'stepping stone' to EU#3 as inferred. Either way, I still think that many players from EU1/2 who want more from Arma would get it from EU#3 if thy gave it a chance (by admissions many have not yet tried it), yes it would involve an initial push of effort, however the rewards are definately worth it, and there are many players willing to help those who are willing to help themselves.

I've re-read this a few times and there is a lot I could reply to however I'm going to suggest that everyone who has posted in this thread re-reads their own posts.
There's a lot of contradictions, especially from those trying to exclude others from voicing their opinions, but then stating there is a divide in the community. I am thankful the moderators have dealt with this.
What is also clear to me is that the original post doesn't accurately describe what is being requested, and to that end others can only reply to what's written, so please be clear and concise when writing your opinion, as ambiguity will lead to less focused discussion.
In summary, my interpretation is that the request is actually for a slim-modded I&A server, NOT a 'stepping stone' to EU#3 as inferred. Either way, I still think that many players from EU1/2 who want more from Arma would get it from EU#3 if thy gave it a chance (by admissions many have not yet tried it), yes it would involve an initial push of effort, however the rewards are definately worth it, and there are many players willing to help those who are willing to help themselves.

I've re-read this a few times and there is a lot I could reply to however I'm going to suggest that everyone who has posted in this thread re-reads their own posts.
There's a lot of contradictions, especially from those trying to exclude others from voicing their opinions, but then stating there is a divide in the community. I am thankful the moderators have dealt with this.
What is also clear to me is that the original post doesn't accurately describe what is being requested, and to that end others can only reply to what's written, so please be clear and concise when writing your opinion, as ambiguity will lead to less focused discussion.
In summary, my interpretation is that the request is actually for a slim-modded I&A server, NOT a 'stepping stone' to EU#3 as inferred. Either way, I still think that many players from EU1/2 who want more from Arma would get it from EU#3 if thy gave it a chance (by admissions many have not yet tried it), yes it would involve an initial push of effort, however the rewards are definately worth it, and there are many players willing to help those who are willing to help themselves.

It feels like you're looking for a category for EU3, which I don't think it has. Milsim implies ranks and a fixed hierarchy of roles, often even requiring to address by rank and sir / ma'am. EU3 has none of that. Everyone can join whatever role they wish to take, with many customisation options and no requirement to use non-magnifying scopes or iron sights as a regular rifleman.
Perhaps you got us on the wrong foot or didn't listen closely enough when you played on EU3, but I am 100% sure that we love banter and to relax.
 
Everything you might associate with milsim, i.e., command structure and roles, comes with using a radio mod and the desire to be organised. The realism mods we use, like RHS for weapons and uniforms, are just what the playerbase likes to use from personal preference, not because we are dead-set on simulating reality.

Gripe I understand where your coming from, however I personally think with the implementation of ACRE will require a more set-in-stone structure or hierarchy. Otherwise how would you call in helicopters for evacuation? Is everyone going to have a long range radio? Do you know how much space those radio's require within the inventory? Without this hierarchy then how would you designate who took these radios? Without this hierarchy then I personally think having ACRE would feel like a crowded Team speak channel with constant radio chatter resulting in most people turning off their radios and resulting to typing over side chat to avoid the headache otherwise involved.

Every time I read "MilSim" and "Eu3" in the same sentence I die a little on the inside.

Creating another server won't divide the community, because the community is already divided.
It is divided between those that play on Eu3 and Eu1/2. 
The reason for Eu3 players not to play on Eu1/2 is that they enjoy the more serious and tactical/social aspect of Eu3, this is certainly the situation in my case.
 
Yea, sure the huge mod pack on Eu3 including the "strict rules" might seem scary at first. 
But once you get it going, and actually reading the rules you'll understand that most of the rules are common sense.
Also I have never met a friendlier playerbase than on Ahoyworld, and the players on Eu3 are more than happy to help you get everything up and running,
if you have trouble with the mods just ask someone who regularly plays on Eu3 and they will most likely be happy to help you.
If one has played in a MilSim unit they will understand the difference of Eu3 and MilSim.
 
-Fabs

Not wanting to play with a rank structure is all fine, but this part here I have to take issue with. The list of rules for EU#3 is very reasonable.
 
Don't TK
Don't ruin the fun for everyone by raping AOs with CAS.
Obey the orders of your superiors. (Which are, in 99% of cases, perfectly reasonable.)
Play your role.
 
Those 4 are really the gist of it. Everything else is simply subsets of those four, intended to specify a selection of actions that could easily end up resulting in you breaking any of those four major rules.
 
The common violations involve shooting in base and throwing items in base, which is mostly done by newbies who get reprimanded once, never to do it again.
 
I can't for the life of me see how this ruleset could even remotely be hard to follow.

As far as I can tell, ACE and ACRE are basically the only two mods they DON'T want on a modded server

Fair enough Josh.
 
In that case, let me just say, as far as I can tell from what is being written in here, the mods keeping people off EU#3 are ACE and ACRE, and the total size of the download.
 
If there's a demand for a server running weapon and vehicle mods, I have no issue with that. Just don't call it a "stepping stone to EU#3" if it's basically just the EU#3 modset without ACE and ACRE.
 
If a stepping stone is required, tone down the medical system, lose some of the other ACE features like Advanced Ballistics, make ACRE as easy as is possible and relax the rank structure.

Giddy lists a "less intrusive ACRE", but not ACE.
 
I'm no expert, but I don't imagine ACRE's gonna get a whole lot less "intrusive" than it is on EU#3 in its current form.
 
The general gist I'm getting from talking to people on TS, both recently and in the history of EU#3, is that ACE and TFAR/ACRE have been the mods keeping people off, as they can be somewhat overwhelming to newbies.
 
So no, it has not been said multiple times that people want only ACE and ACRE. No offense, but that's just factually incorrect.

I'd like to point out that everyone here is part of the Ahoyworld community, so let's stop the censorship and divisiveness?  Everyone's got an opinion, and the right to share it.
 
If the community wants to have a new server that's inbetween EU1 & EU3, then I say great, go for it.
 
- R

I have. You're linking a bunch of posts from people asking for a less modded EU#3 gamenight. Nothing to do with setting up a new server.

Topic unlocked, everyone has the right to voice their opinion, just because they might not agree with you doesn't mean they should be excluded from the discussion, that's just censorship.

I think everyone agrees with aiming for stability, that goes without saying. This kind of improvement is a necessity to the kind of experience EU#3 is trying to provide, so would be good if it was next on the hit list.
Just to add, when testing, this seemed to work very well with the EU#3 modset, at least up to the point of a handful of players and with Kieran hosting. Further testing would of course be required.

I have to say I do not agree with this idea.  I played the original OpFlash and Arma many years ago, missed Arma 2 and got Arma 3 only 6months ago.  I played EU1/2 for a few weeks whilst reading up on the rules and many helpful forum posts of information for EU3 - I got along just fine and now play regularly on EU3 without breaking the rules.
 
In short, I feel that your idea is a 'get out' from actually learning the rules and play styles for EU#3.

I have to say I do not agree with this idea.  I played the original OpFlash and Arma many years ago, missed Arma 2 and got Arma 3 only 6months ago.  I played EU1/2 for a few weeks whilst reading up on the rules and many helpful forum posts of information for EU3 - I got along just fine and now play regularly on EU3 without breaking the rules.
 
In short, I feel that your idea is a 'get out' from actually learning the rules and play styles for EU#3.

I have to say I do not agree with this idea.  I played the original OpFlash and Arma many years ago, missed Arma 2 and got Arma 3 only 6months ago.  I played EU1/2 for a few weeks whilst reading up on the rules and many helpful forum posts of information for EU3 - I got along just fine and now play regularly on EU3 without breaking the rules.
 
In short, I feel that your idea is a 'get out' from actually learning the rules and play styles for EU#3.

I have to say I do not agree with this idea.  I played the original OpFlash and Arma many years ago, missed Arma 2 and got Arma 3 only 6months ago.  I played EU1/2 for a few weeks whilst reading up on the rules and many helpful forum posts of information for EU3 - I got along just fine and now play regularly on EU3 without breaking the rules.
 
In short, I feel that your idea is a 'get out' from actually learning the rules and play styles for EU#3.