A few ideas and more

[shuenix]

Hi again

 

 

First I would like to say say that its good you are doing the rewamp. Personaly I dont like the point system, but something has to happend, cause its becomming a little repititive. So any change will do.

One night when the EU1 was broken, a group of us regulars found another server: "7th Cavalery Realism". Their setup is quite different. They have implemented counterattack and Halodrop and much more. We had a very fun night on that server. I urge you to take look on 7th and see if "we" could use some of their implements.

Besides that, I would like to see more "harbours" for the boats, at least one at the west side of the main island.

Shouldn't we drop the Carrier, what it is good for? I have heard pilots saying that, I am not a pilot.

I am thinking dropping UAV operator and give some of the recons access to the Darter, but I not sure it can be done. In my eyes, darter belongs to recon. Maybe attach a Recon/Darter guy to each group. Then give the Fighter plane 2 GBU's. 

 

Is it possible to get AI to ganision a little more? Clearing houses is an exciting and fun part og the game.

Could we get a little more stamina please? Its a big island and you have to carry a lot of stuff, to avoid sitting in a vehicle all day.

Give Teamleaders Nightstalker or something else attractive. 

Restrict the classes that can handle explosives.

 

 

Its good server to play on, so keep up the good work. Thnx.


Shuenix

[Stanhope]

2 hours ago, shuenix said:

I have checked the supplycrates at main. They are sort of useless. 

 

We need to have crates with ammo to most guns. Also sniper, markmans and LMG ammo. 6.5mm stanag alone doesnt do it.
When we get theese crates fixed, pilots could easily bring out ammo.

Although i agree that the default loadout of the crates isn't ideal i'm not planning on making a custom one.  All i might do is have them spawn in empty by default.  This because any custom loadout i make will not meet the requirements of everyone.  Say i put a heck of alot of 6.5 30rnd mags and some 100rnd mags in and let's say there is enough space left for 2 PCMLs with 8 rockets. Now there is no room for sniper ammo, marksman ammo, titans, ...
Say i take 1 of each things you can take from the arsenal (except actually guns, launchers) and put them in a crate.  I'm pretty sure my crate would be at least filled for 3/4th.  And that's with only 1 magazine for each gun.  Which won't help infantry at all.  
Those crates were put down so that pilots, or anyone else, could load them up with what they need.

 

3 minutes ago, Cryo said:

malden's base isn't on an airfield, isn't on an airfield

 

Just gonna put it out there, that makes 0 sense in my opinion.

If we were to put the base on the airfield that's on the tiny island to the NE we wouldn't be able to put any land based assets down as they couldn't be used on the mainland.
If we were to put it on the main airfield we'd lose roughly 10 AOs.  We currently have roughly 45 AOs.  That's almost 25% of the AOs that would be gone.
 

 

[Stanhope]

24 minutes ago, shuenix said:

Restrict the classes that can handle explosives.

It's been talked about before the ups are that the engineer and EOD specialist become more attractive, the downs is that it might take ages before the radio tower or other things get's destroyed.  So we have to ask whether or not it's worth holding up 30 people because nobody took one of those 3 slots in the lobby.
 

26 minutes ago, shuenix said:

Give Teamleaders Nightstalker or something else attractive. 

The problem is that these led to A LOT of team-kills, same with the GL they used to have.  I'm all for giving them something to do but only if it doesn't lead to more TKs.

 

27 minutes ago, shuenix said:

Could we get a little more stamina please? Its a big island and you have to carry a lot of stuff, to avoid sitting in a vehicle all day.

That's a question you'll have to ask bohemia interactive.  We currently have the choice between the current system or infinite stamina.

 

28 minutes ago, shuenix said:

Is it possible to get AI to ganision a little more? Clearing houses is an exciting and fun part og the game.

It depends on the AO how much AI is garrisoned.  A lot of military buildings means a lot of garrisoned AI.  But i'll look into that script a bit more it can certainly use some tweaking.
 

29 minutes ago, shuenix said:

I am thinking dropping UAV operator and give some of the recons access to the Darter, but I not sure it can be done. In my eyes, darter belongs to recon. Maybe attach a Recon/Darter guy to each group. Then give the Fighter plane 2 GBU's. 

The primary role of pilots is to transport people.  Sometimes when there are 5 pilots around people are still complaining that they don't get picked up quick enough.  Why this is, is worthy of a topic of its own.  But giving pilots to a jet, that then presumably needs to respawn quicker than it currently does, will not help this problem.  It'll also cause even more people to camp out a pilot slot in the lobby.
And giving multiple people access to darters can cause darters to be spammed across the map.  And will also lead to people 'stealing' darters, which is really hard to detect for moderators.

 

32 minutes ago, shuenix said:

Shouldn't we drop the Carrier, what it is good for? I have heard pilots saying that, I am not a pilot.

I presume people currently don't like it because of the jet glitching through the deck.  We were hoping that BI fixed that bug soon but yea.  
The carrier on altis isn't used for a lot true, but on malden it holds almost all air assets (helis, blackfish, UAVs, ...) because malden's base isn't on an airfield.

 

34 minutes ago, shuenix said:

Besides that, I would like to see more "harbours" for the boats, at least one at the west side of the main island.

Boats in general are hardly ever used.  On both malden and tanoa the boats are in way better locations than on altis and yet they hardly ever get used.  If you currently want to use a boat i suggest asking the huron pilot to sling you from the docks to somewhere you want to be.

 

36 minutes ago, shuenix said:

They have implemented counterattack and Halodrop

HALO is a no-go, it's been discussed multiple times and it would make transport pilots useless.  
Counter attack are not a bad idea but AI has a tendency to not be that good at attacking.  They usually are too cautious meaning they get picked off one by one.  But it's worth discussing in my opinion.

 

38 minutes ago, shuenix said:

cause its becomming a little repititive

We're constantly trying to come up with new side missions and priority missions.  If you have a good idea for one and you believe it's possible to script that in a reasonable amount of time, let us know.  

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

[ansin11]

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

[Stanhope about EOD roles] So we have to ask whether or not it's worth holding up 30 people because nobody took one of those 3 slots in the lobby.

Yes. This is the case for every role. If it doesn't get picked you don't get its benefits. Need transport? Get a pilot. Need AT? Get AT. Need CAS? Call Deathstar. Need something repaired? Call a repair specialist. Need something to explode? Call EOD.

[shuenix]

9 minutes ago, ansin11 said:

Yes. This is the case for every role. If it doesn't get picked you don't get its benefits. Need transport? Get a pilot. Need AT? Get AT. Need CAS? Call Deathstar. Need something repaired? Call a repair specialist. Need something to explode? Call EOD.

Right.

And I think it will be a succes. Cause its fun to blow up things. I dont think we will lack EOD specialist, if they have a good chance of blowing stuff up.

[Amentes]

I see two options for EOD.

 

1) Re-add enemy minefields. Take the old minefields, add more locations than Radio Tower, add AT mines to the fields, but then also make their locations obvious. Possibly flag them on map and/or put minefield signs around them as physical objects.

 

2) Remove EOD. EODs job is to disarm enemy explosives. It doesn't take expertise to rig a block of C4.

[shuenix]

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

 

 

Boats in general are hardly ever used.  On both malden and tanoa the boats are in way better locations than on altis and yet they hardly ever get used.  If you currently want to use a boat i suggest asking the huron pilot to sling you from the docks to somewhere you want to be.

 

I wonder why!!!!!   ;-)

Maybe because they are placed as far away as possible.

Thats why I suggest a couple more.


Shuenix

[ansin11]

8 minutes ago, Amentes said:

2) Remove EOD. EODs job is to disarm enemy explosives. It doesn't take expertise to rig a block of C4.

It does take expertise to rig a block of C4 in the right place for something to be effectively destroyed though.

 

9 minutes ago, Amentes said:

1) Re-add enemy minefields. Take the old minefields, add more locations than Radio Tower, add AT mines to the fields, but then also make their locations obvious. Possibly flag them on map and/or put minefield signs around them as physical objects.

But yes, I would go with this. Why make them obvious though? Gotta watch your step, soldier.

[Amentes]

If you don't indicate the presence of mines, they will be virtually invisible. Getting killed in a minefield is not quality gameplay if there's no way you could have known it was there.

[shuenix]

3 hours ago, ansin11 said:

It does take expertise to rig a block of C4 in the right place for something to be effectively destroyed though.

 

But yes, I would go with this. Why make them obvious though? Gotta watch your step, soldier.

1. Yes. I was trained in basic explosives in the army and if you dont do it right, you wont have the result you wanted. Worst case, you blow yourself up. It is not as seen in the movies, there is calculations and estimation involved.

2. With you again. Why make it all so easy, so the pace in the game comes into CS GO or Battlefield "gear". Real military stuff takes time, very long time. We had a saying in the army: "Life in the army is 90% boredom and 10% action". I am not saying that we should simulated boredom :-). But if we slow down the pace, just a little, it would be fine for me. 

[shuenix]

3 hours ago, Amentes said:

If you don't indicate the presence of mines, they will be virtually invisible. Getting killed in a minefield is not quality gameplay if there's no way you could have known it was there.

Yes indicate a minefield is OK with me, but not the single mines. For that we need a mine detector.

[Stanhope]

4 hours ago, shuenix said:

I wonder why!!!!!   ;-)

Maybe because they are placed as far away as possible.

Thats why I suggest a couple more.

I believe i wasn't clear enough.  On malden and tanoa the boats are placed in a decent location.  And seeing how malden is a tiny island you can get to any beach with a boat in less than 5 minutes.  And yet they don't get used 99,99% of the time.  I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to add more boats it's just that we have to consider whether or not it's worth putting more in, which would be using server performance just sitting there doing nothing.  
I know that those few boats won't affect server performance that bad but it's all those little things combined.
The ideal solution would be to have a way of spawning boats in.  To avoid abuse the spawning would have to be restricted in time and/or total amount of boats alive.  If anyone can give me such a script i'd be more than happy to implement it.

 

About the minefields:  we'll discuss internally and see whether or not we add them back and how we put them in.

[shuenix]

6 hours ago, Stanhope said:

I believe i wasn't clear enough.  On malden and tanoa the boats are placed in a decent location.  And seeing how malden is a tiny island you can get to any beach with a boat in less than 5 minutes.  And yet they don't get used 99,99% of the time.  I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to add more boats it's just that we have to consider whether or not it's worth putting more in, which would be using server performance just sitting there doing nothing.  
I know that those few boats won't affect server performance that bad but it's all those little things combined.
The ideal solution would be to have a way of spawning boats in.  To avoid abuse the spawning would have to be restricted in time and/or total amount of boats alive.  If anyone can give me such a script i'd be more than happy to implement it.

 

About the minefields:  we'll discuss internally and see whether or not we add them back and how we put them in.

I have to admit, I dont have a clue about what can be done and what not. I fell that ideas should be laid on the table anyway.

I dont understand the problem about the abuse of boat spawning. Cant it just work like the vehicle spawn?
I get the concerns about server performance and necessity to have an eye on the details. So kill the carrier and gain a little server performance there.

 

If its a huge job to implement minefields I do understand your concerns. But if its done fast, it could be tested for a week or so and then evaluate. 

[Stanhope]

5 hours ago, shuenix said:

Cant it just work like the vehicle spawn?

We don't currently have one?
 

5 hours ago, shuenix said:

I dont understand the problem about the abuse of boat spawning

We used to have a hunter spawn.  People, trolls, would just stand there and keep spawning in vehicles.  So many that it impacted server performance significantly.
 

5 hours ago, shuenix said:

So kill the carrier and gain a little server performance there.

The carrier, and all the objects on it except the flyable jet and the UCAV, are simple objects.  Meaning that they have about the same impact on server performance as any other map object.
Those boats on the other hand move along with every wave that hits them. They have to be animated all the time.  Meaning they have a bigger impact on server performance than a static, simple object.

 

5 hours ago, shuenix said:

If its a huge job to implement minefields I do understand your concerns. But if its done fast, it could be tested for a week or so and then evaluate. 

Putting them in isn't that big of an issue, we can just grab the script from I&A 2.xx.  However we've discussed internally and decided to not put them back in the main AO.  We've considered the following pro's and con's:

Pro's:
-Will give EODs something real to do

-For those who pay attention will make an interesting experience 

-Will make the RT a bit less repetitive 

Con's:
-AI is dumb, they will simply walk into a minefield

-Players, despite our best attempts to give plenty of warnings, have a tendency to simply walk into minefields.  Killing themselves but more important also everyone standing near.
-When EODs do start disarming mines we often see people taking vehicles in the minefield, trying to disarm it that way.  This in 99% of cases lead to the EOD being blown to bits and the vehicle being FUBAR after 5 meters.

-People have a tendency to throw frags or shoot 40mm into a minefield.  This again kills anyone standing near.

 

Now that's why it's not getting put back into the main AO.  Where we do see it work is in a new side mission.  So if anyone has a good idea for a side mission with mines/a need for an EOD by all means let us know.  We're always looking for more ideas for side missions/prio missions and sup-objectives.

 

Stan

[ansin11]

The carrier is a landmark object, if it were a simple object you couldn't use the catapults and doors. But those seven objects more or less on the server don't really influence performance, especially since they spawn there as part of the mission.sqm.

19 hours ago, Amentes said:

If you don't indicate the presence of mines, they will be virtually invisible. Getting killed in a minefield is not quality gameplay if there's no way you could have known it was there.

Mines are actual objects, you can look at them.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

AI is dumb, they will simply walk into a minefield

That is actually not true. Using the very very very simple setup shown below I can show that AI equipped with a minedetector can walk (in fact, since I forgot to change the waypoint speed, this brave man runs) through a randomly generated minefield (in this case APERS mines), avoiding mines placed along his path.

 

What I have no experience with is BIS_fnc_taskPatrol, but it does have a blacklist parameter, allowing you to exclude certain areas from the randomly generated patrol route.

 

I can also think of a script determining OPFOR unit distance from the minefield and placing an adjusted waypoint (using move or doMove) when the unit gets too close.

[Stanhope]

Just now, ansin11 said:

Mines are actual objects, you can look at them.

Thing is that not everyone is looking at the ground all the time.
 

1 minute ago, ansin11 said:

with a minedetector

Not all AI cary mine detectors

 

1 minute ago, ansin11 said:

What I have no experience with is BIS_fnc_taskPatrol, but it does have a blacklist parameter, allowing you to exclude certain areas from the randomly generated patrol route.

 

I can also think of a script determining OPFOR unit distance from the minefield and placing an adjusted waypoint (using move or doMove) when the unit gets too close.

Feel free to rewrite the current code and sent us code that will make AI avoid the minefield.

[ansin11]

1. Yea that's how mines work. They kill you because you didn't pay attention.
2. this addItemToBackpack "MineDetector";
3. It might be possible, since I didn't put any testing to this, that one unit per group is sufficient.
4. If you allow me to run one instance of code per group (or even if necessary unit) I can do that.

[Amentes]

1 hour ago, ansin11 said:

1. Yea that's how mines work. They kill you because you didn't pay attention

... mate, don't get me wrong here, but what the actual fuck?

 

Do you have any idea how many people die to mines in areas where they know they're present, but simply can't detect them?

 

ArmA doesn't fully reflect real life in this regard and mines are much easier to visually detect in-game, but still, I'm sorry, when you don't know if, where and how many mines are placed in an AO-sized area, your options are to crawl everywhere and hope no mine hides in grass, or be guaranteed to step on one while you're running.

[GamerbugUK]

There are so many reasons mines are not fun, specifically on public free for all servers, the main ones being most things Stanhope said, it's not you traversing, disarming etc the minefield that is the problem, its the 5 other fools rushing in to get to whatever is beyond it, or driving a tank in there or shooting at the mines, or running in to revive people and blowing up everyone.

 

Also what Amentes said, were not doing realism here, so saying "be on your toes and go slow, because a mine could be anywhere across Altis" is just a silly idea.

 

 

[ansin11]

Alright then

[Stanhope]

Disclaimer: I'm currently too tired to write any kind of proper english, read at your own risk  
Right to get back on this:

On 17-8-2017 at 3:38 PM, shuenix said:

Is it possible to get AI to ganision a little more? Clearing houses is an exciting and fun part og the game.

I've taken a look into the script and changed a few things.
For starters all military buildings in the AO will be filled up for 90% with enemy units. Any other buildings in the AO will be filled up for 25% with enemy units.  
These numbers aren't final yet as i'm not 100% done on rewriting that code nor am i done on actually testing everything for different types of AOs (AOs in cities or AOs in mainly countryside)

Stan

[Ryko]

My general problem with AI garrisons is as follows: at least when they are patrolling, there is a chance that you can encounter them.  If the objective requires you to clear the AO of all enemy presence, you'll have to do a complete house-to-house search. If there are a lot of buildings, it can take a lot of time. And if you think you've cleared a house but there are enemies still in it, then you will ultimately never clear the objective, and moderators will start getting complaints that the mission is bugged.

[shuenix]

5 hours ago, Ryko said:

My general problem with AI garrisons is as follows: at least when they are patrolling, there is a chance that you can encounter them.  If the objective requires you to clear the AO of all enemy presence, you'll have to do a complete house-to-house search. If there are a lot of buildings, it can take a lot of time. And if you think you've cleared a house but there are enemies still in it, then you will ultimately never clear the objective, and moderators will start getting complaints that the mission is bugged.

Thats right.

But when people learn to do it and mark the houses, it shouldn't take that long. The way its done now is hopeless and anoying. 
Anyway, just for a change and if doesn't work, we can change back again.

If we dont keep the server evolving, we will loose the regulars in a higher rate than necessary.

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, shuenix said:

But when people learn to do it and mark the houses, it shouldn't take that long. The way its done now is hopeless and anoying. 
Anyway, just for a change and if doesn't work, we can change back again.

When zeusing on a server with 60 people, AND telling them to try marking buildings they clear, people do not do it. In some AOs, there is a barracks with AI in them. It took the players 2 hours to do it, asking and "telling" me it was bugged when I was looking at a building with 14 guys in it, and all because it was one building, on the edge of the AO that nobody could be bothered to check. In a perfect world, or in EU3 sure, but with EU1, people dont always think first, they do.

[shuenix]

On 19/8/2017 at 8:19 PM, McKillen said:

When zeusing on a server with 60 people, AND telling them to try marking buildings they clear, people do not do it. In some AOs, there is a barracks with AI in them. It took the players 2 hours to do it, asking and "telling" me it was bugged when I was looking at a building with 14 guys in it, and all because it was one building, on the edge of the AO that nobody could be bothered to check. In a perfect world, or in EU3 sure, but with EU1, people dont always think first, they do.

Yeah, I have seen it myself. I do also write at sidemap, that houses should be marked. I feel that if we get the regulars to mark them, the newbies will learn it too. It will maybe take a little time, but I am sure it will help.
I dont care if the AO takes a little longer. This game is not CS GO.

To the mines: I guess the new DLC, brings in some new stuff about mines and AI. So maybe we just should wait and see.

[shuenix]

On 17/8/2017 at 4:20 PM, Stanhope said:

 

That's a question you'll have to ask bohemia interactive.  We currently have the choice between the current system or infinite stamina.

 

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

Yesterday I was told, that it is possible to lower the weight on the weapons. If thats correct, it could be a solution.


Gert/Shuenix