MAT maybe?

[Johnson]

Any chance we could get a MAT team added to Gauntlet for US forces?

I'm in love with the M3 MAAWs on EU#3 so I would love to legally be allowed to use it in an AT team like MAT if its possible.
 

+ when it comes down to AT on EU#3 (which is all I live for) I can kick so much more ass with a dummy fire M3 than lock on Javelin.

I cry every second I'm away from that beautiful M3 beast.

[Chon]

Have seen that beast in action when I was in the army, lovely weapon.

[DakimDragco]

+1 on the MAT thing. Despite its setbacks it is better to use in my opinion then the Javelin, as for why:

 

• Javelin is lock-on only, meaning you spent 10 seconds exposed to enemy fire to engage your target, give or take a few seconds.
• Javelin only locks-on when in thermal view, yet we cringe at the idee of infantry using thermal/nightstalker sights on their main guns.
• Javelin has some freakish moments, were the round on top-down mode just bounces of tanks. Waste of those 10 sec exposed

Cons for the Maaws (aldo some i see as pro's)

 

• It is unguided, meaning a measure of skill is required to aim it properly.
• You need to manualy zero, unlike with the Javelin who needs no zero-ing since its guided.
• It can have trouble punching throught armor targets, like T80/T90 and abrams, due to angle or hit location.

One pro to the Maaws is that the rounds weighs significantly less per piece, and you can take more of them in the same backpack then Javelin ammo. So you might end up just as heavy, but with say 3 shots more, or 6 if you have a ammo bearer, you have a more lasting effect on enemy armor present at the AO.

 

While the Maaws is not as sure of a one-hit-kill as the Javelin i still find it more reliable and easy to use. We might want to encourge people to use these launchers more as MAT to get them experienced at AT roles more then the fire and forget Javelin will. M3 Maaws simple requires more skill, even if everyone should be able to use it basicly after testing it for a day since its not that hard of a launcher to use.

[Pancake]

While the Maaws is not as sure of a one-hit-kill as the Javelin i still find it more reliable and easy to use. We might want to encourge people to use these launchers more as MAT to get them experienced at AT roles more then the fire and forget Javelin will. M3 Maaws simple requires more skill, even if everyone should be able to use it basicly after testing it for a day since its not that hard of a launcher to use.

 

It's more than capable of a  one hit mobility or weapon system kill on the newer models of Russian tanks, as me and Johnson saw on EU3 the other day when we were in a HAT team.

 

There's also versatility to the available rounds, that squad half a klick ahead need smoke cover now? The MAAWS has got you covered. Need a large area lit up at night? Just fire up a flare round and let the light of King Gustav shine down on all in about a half klick radius. Got a platoon of poorly spaced Russians advancing on you? Dump a HE in there, problem solved (Umbrellas not provided).

 

Replacing one of the HAT teams with a MAT team would allow a greater spread of weapons to be brought to a battlefield, allowing squad level AT to disable ifvs or apcs they run into, MAT to nail other ifvs and apcs that are moving in and potentially knock the track off an MBT and allow HAT to concentrate on MBTs solely

[Josh]

Over this whole thing my opinion is as follows: 

 

Abolish MAT, HAT, AAT, MMG etc. 

 

Replace them with something like a logistics squad/ FSG (Fire Support Group)

 

Why? Because this way we can class them all under one say 6-8 man team. With much more of a multi-role and a range of allowed weapons.

 

From M249's -> Javelins -> Mortars -> Stingers -> Maaws. 

 

That's what i'd do anyway.

[Johnson]

I agree with everything said but I would need more convincing on that Logistics team stuff. Where a HAT Team may be more useful against T-80 ect but a MAT Team would be ideal against targets like BTRs and BNPs saving HAT ammo even though both teams are capable at both jobs.

[ranarick]

TBH Josh's idea wouldn't be too bad if this is possible though if not then change HAT team 2 to MAT ?

[Johnson]

At the end of the day, if I get to use the M3, I am very happy.

[Amentes]

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that a Javelin team wouldn't be well suited to move with the main force all the time, which I guess is a plus in the book for a seperation of the teams.

Given the range of the missile and the previously mentioned suicidal exposure neccesary to fire the weapon, it makes a lot of sense to me that one would, given a large amount of players, simply run two different teams, having the MAAWS attatch themselves to the main force, letting the Javelin hang further back, moving from appropriate fire position to the next, not entirely unlike the strategy you might employ with an HMG squad.

 

And yes, I know I haven't been active on #3 for a good while; I'm hoping to get back for some gamenights soon

[Josh]

FSG arn't supposed to move with the main group either...

[MessedUpSmiley]

MAT on Fallujah seeing there is no MBTs anyway

[Eggmuffin]

MAT on Fallujah seeing there is no MBTs anyway

A regular infantry squad carries a couple of AT4's that can deal with things on Fallujah. There's no real need for either HAT nor MAT there.

 

 

As for Johnson's request. You could argue that the MAAWS requires more skill, however it is also a far more versatile tool, which I consider a bad thing. I am thinking about the balance of forces on the server. The limitations inherent in the Javelin means that the team utilizing it has to move and act in a way more appropriate for a support group (which they are). They have to maintain distance and concealment, rather than going hunting in between buildings and such.

 

I am in favour of any proposition to maintain the appropriate roles of each team, and I feel that allowing extended use of the M3 MAAWS would accomplish the opposite.

[Josh]

A regular infantry squad carries a couple of AT4's that can deal with things on Fallujah. There's no real need for either HAT nor MAT there.

 

 

As for Johnson's request. You could argue that the MAAWS requires more skill, however it is also a far more versatile tool, which I consider a bad thing. I am thinking about the balance of forces on the server. The limitations inherent in the Javelin means that the team utilizing it has to move and act in a way more appropriate for a support group (which they are). They have to maintain distance and concealment, rather than going hunting in between buildings and such.

 

I am in favour of any proposition to maintain the appropriate roles of each team, and I feel that allowing extended use of the M3 MAAWS would accomplish the opposite.

Have to agree with Eggmuffin on this one...

 

HAT ETC are supposed to be a support group and shouldn't be playing anywhere near as close to contact as say Alpha/Bravo etc.

[ranarick]

ohh and btw just a fun little fact the us army is making the m3 maaws more widespread for light infantry units
 

 

Defence and security company Saab�s man-portable weapon system Carl-Gustaf has been chosen by the U.S. Department of the Army to be a Program of Record within the U.S. Army. This means that the world leading shoulder fired weapon system, with a long service record with the U.S. Special Operations Forces, will now become standard issue to the U.S. Army's Light Infantry units.
The Carl-Gustaf system will provide the U.S. Army with a capability that units using disposable shoulder fired munitions currently lack. This system has been a key component of the U.S. Special Operations Forces for over twenty years. 
"The fact that the U.S. Army has now elected to designate Carl-Gustaf (M3 MAAWS in the U.S.) as a Program of Record, thereby enabling it to be broadly fielded to its light Infantry units speaks for itself. The Carl-Gustaf has repeatedly proven itself in the world's most demanding environments as a versatile, powerful tool for the infantry soldier", says Jonas Hjelm, President of Saab North America.

Source : http://www.deagel.com/news/Carl-Gustaf-Selected-as-Standard-Equipment-for-US-Army-Light-Infantry-Units_n000012406.aspx (among others )

 

not that this should have any impact on this discussion  

now back to the topic : I would say HAT/MAT has to use what their situation allows them to use depending on terrain, mission objective and engagement ranges (for example a tight city would cause a javelin unable to support in the case of ground forces not having any AT4s left.) Though i am for HAT/MAT sticking more to the rear as support and maybe keep a supply vehicle for the other forces with them (though the FOB system on gauntlet should make that less needed directly)

[Nicolai]

If there was put a rifleman with M3 MAAWS slot in Alpha, Bravo and Charlie, the HAT team could finally confine itself on using weapons, that have a range of engagement justifying movement as a seperate team and usage of a long range radio - like the Javelin and the FIM-92 stinger. What was the AAT team there for, then again, I can't remember.

 

That's how it goes:

1. Get on EU#3 as HAT SL, see two other players in the team joining, making a complete HAT team. You will enable them to move seperately, do the LR and map work never get to fire a launcher yourself, okay. Get your channel 4, put it on the side channel map with its frequency and quickly load a HMMV for them with Javelin. While you're loading the HMMV, you're off the LR, as you use the backpacks to load the vehicle. During that time, the radio channels get redistributed a few times, which you do not realize, as nobody updates the map markings. Be sure that once you got your LR back on, there will be several different teams chatting on channel 4, each one stating to have been there first. It's bright daylight, so get a day loadout.

1.1. Knowing that most people rather use the MAAWS, you decide to ask your teammates an innocent question: "What launchers are we going to use? Javelin or MAAWS". You'll get the reply: "that's for you to decide." Okay.. decision..

2. Ride the HMMV with the Javelin to the staging area and ask your teammates to get in, after you've found them somewhere around the Arsenal, while trying to get a dedicated SR channel.

3. Hear complaints about why a preloaded Javelin HMMV was not good, because your teammates haven't used it, can't handle it, don't like it, would have to communicate with you, when using it.. rather move in with the team.. and btw. why do you not have a LR on your back?

4. Go back to the Arsenal, "quickly" work over the loadout of the HMMV, add some M3 MAAWS ammo and.. yeah, why not a few Stingers and some highly sophisticated mags for three different marksman rifles of the HAT members. After that, the amount of space left in the HMMV for your Javelin ammo is the same as in a Carryall backpack.

4.1. A CMD element may appear. When it sees you carrying Javelin, you're being told to carry the much more appreciated M3 MAAWS. When it sees you carrying M3 MAAWS, you're being told that HAT used Javelin and no MAAWS. Either way, you'll figure that out. Talking sometimes helps, sometimes it's just better to not listen to others.

5. At this point A SL or CMD will ask you to move in with the team, rendering LR radio, HMMV, Javelin.. the whole HAT team to be pointless. However, as a HAT SL you're not carrying a launcher right? You're moving in with the team.. and yeah, listen to the Air LR as well, because we don't have a guy in the JTAC role.

6. Wait at the staging area with the loaded HMMV and the missile spec assistant, because the missile spec rather goes in with Alpha using Vortex. Well yeah, as you do not have a lot of possibilities to sanction erratic behaviour of others - you can ignore them, after all. Or does the HAT member moving in with Alpha really expect being told about targets by you on the SR, which you will get from A SL on the LR? Well..

7. When everyone is ready to go, missile spec and missile spec assistant will have disconnected, you will be airlifted as a HAT SL in your loaded HMMV, to the same LZ as Alpha, Bravo or Charlie. During that time, ambient will have been changed to night and you don't have a NVG. If you don't get shot or wrecked while that happens, and you didn't fall asleep in the HMMV, yet, you'll find that your teammates have optimized away the M3 MAAWS launchers from the HMMV's inventory, to carry more ammo, so that you have a lot of ammo, will move with the team, that you use the LR to talk to, even though it's only meters away. And no flares. And the radio frequencies have been changed again.

8. You're being asked by A SL to take out that T-80, that you have told them about 1km ago, that's now right in front of you, with your Javelin, over LR radio.

9. Once you have gained a position a short distance use of the Javelin isn't a straight suicide from, you'll see an Alpha member trying to take out the T-80 using an AT4, because he couldn't wait and.. because he has it. It fails and you then have a NVG to scavenge. Still you have proven to be uncapable of using the Javelin, you have proven the Javelin is of a disadvantage and that the MAAWS is better to completely disintegrate the teamwork, separation of duties.. and the mission.

10. Because there is no infantry and no pilots left for EVAC you disconnect.

 

As long as the teamwork with regard to moving in separate teams and coordinating combined efforts using LR is hard to attain, I'll probably better refrain from participating in discussions about which was the better tool because I like it more than others. I love the M3 MAAWS, I love the Javelin, each for its own use.

 

The decision to use the M3 MAAWS in light infantery groups is a good idea. However, to put it like that on EU#3 would be straightforward from my perspective on the one hand, on the other hand it would make the task of getting a separate AT team into battle even more difficult to attain, no matter which launcher they used. As that is already hard anyway, why not?

 

Changing HAT 1 to MAT and HAT 2 to HAT would be a decision I would endorse, as that would both be regarding the MAAWS's standing within the platoon, that it has gained through reliability and versatility in some cases of use, and that wouldn't make things harder, that I find hard and depressing to experience with regard to its use in the team.