A few questions

[Stanhope]

Right as I'm not a modded mod I apparently have to ask all my questions this way.  These are questions directed at modded moderators but i'm not stopping anyone else from answering.

Can ASL (or whoever is in command) force you to respawn or can you refuse to respawn?  (I'm thinking of rule 2 vs rule 3 being an issue here)

 

Who's responsible for getting you reinserted?  Is it whoever is in command or the player himself?  Presuming that whoever is in command is aware that you are waiting for a reinsert.  

 

What is a reasonable time to wait for a reinsert?  Presuming that command is aware that you need a reinsert.  15 minutes, 30, 45?

 

What should you do after waiting a reasonable time for a reinsert?  Message whoever is in command?  Get on long-range and remind him again?  

 

What should you do if you encounter a jet that is hovering 2m above the spawnpad after spawning in?  Get in touch with a modded mod?  Try to get it unstuck yourself?  Find a different solution?  

 

That's all i have for now, i might come up with some more later today or in the next few days.

[Ryko]

My two cents:

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Can ASL (or whoever is in command) force you to respawn or can you refuse to respawn?  (I'm thinking of rule 2 vs rule 3 being an issue here)

I'd say no, you can't use the chain of command to force a subordinate player to respawn, and correspondingly, yes, you can refuse to respawn. I'm trying to imagine a case where this is relevant, and the only one that comes to mind is a case where a player has been wounded and there's no medic to give them fluids that would bring them out of unconsciousness, and the situation suggests there's no way a medevac is coming. Players may suggest to a downed player that they can stay unconscious if they want to, but no additional help is coming, so it's up to them.

 

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Who's responsible for getting you reinserted?  Is it whoever is in command or the player himself?  Presuming that whoever is in command is aware that you are waiting for a reinsert.  

I'd say it's the responsibility of the highest-ranking, in-command player to coordinate re-insertions. Re-insertions, or at least the organization of units in the mission profile, should be a high priority for the command element: sitting around at base waiting for a ride in, especially on island missions where you spawn on the carrier, is no fun.

After that, it's the responsibility of transport elements such as Vortex and Rambler to organize who will be getting reinforcements into a mission. If a mission is about to be completed though, I'd say there's no point prioritizing the insertion of new players to an op that's about to complete.

 

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What is a reasonable time to wait for a reinsert?  Presuming that command is aware that you need a reinsert.  15 minutes, 30, 45?

I'd say this is a pretty hard question to answer, but I'd hate to wait for more then 10 or 15 minutes.  There are so many variables, though: if it's literally a new player that's come on to the server just after the main force has already departed, it's hard to justify putting everyone in a holding pattern to pick up one new guy (and then the next guy... and the next).  Sometimes you're just going to have to wait.  I don't think it's beyond reasonable to ask Zeus to teleport a new player into the op on the understanding that he "would have" flown in with everyone else.

 

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What should you do after waiting a reasonable time for a reinsert?  Message whoever is in command?  Get on long-range and remind him again?  

Text message or long-range radio: all military vehicles have a long range, so if you can't get one from the arsenal, you can always hop in the driver's seat of a vehicle and call out.  Messaging in group chat is also acceptable if you're not getting an answer.

 

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What should you do if you encounter a jet that is hovering 2m above the spawnpad after spawning in?  Get in touch with a modded mod?  Try to get it unstuck yourself?  Find a different solution?  

Apparently shooting it may unstick it.

[Stanhope]

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I'd say no, you can't use the chain of command to force a subordinate player to respawn, and correspondingly, yes, you can refuse to respawn. I'm trying to imagine a case where this is relevant, and the only one that comes to mind is a case where a player has been wounded and there's no medic to give them fluids that would bring them out of unconsciousness, and the situation suggests there's no way a medevac is coming. Players may suggest to a downed player that they can stay unconscious if they want to, but no additional help is coming, so it's up to them.

No vortex around, FOB set up.  On the map markers with the text:
Quicksave your loadout then respawn.

I proceeded to take vortex ASL told me to reslot as he had no use for me while forcing people to respawn.

[Vlk]

Ill have the rule specialists answer the respawn question. But regarding re inserts, in awe I wait max 15 minutes and then I’ll grab transport and make my self go where I’m needed. I don’t got the luxury of time to sit around around longer.


Sent from my iPhone using a phone app that is really irritating because it constantly advertises itself.

[Amentes]

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Who's responsible for getting you reinserted?  Is it whoever is in command or the player himself?  Presuming that whoever is in command is aware that you are waiting for a reinsert.  

I'd argue it's a shared responsibility.

 

Spawn in, get yourself ready, look at the map, determine where people are and extrapolate what they're doing.

If you see a Pilot on his way back to base, then clearly no further action is necessary.

If no Pilot is flying, or he's doing circles around AO, it would be prudent to contact whomever is in charge and let that person know your situation.

At that point, you may be asked to wait for air transport, or otherwise be instructed in how to proceed.

 

What should never happen is a player leaving spawn without having communicated with the people in the field. There's no excuse for that, considering how easy that goal is to achieve.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

What is a reasonable time to wait for a reinsert?  Presuming that command is aware that you need a reinsert.  15 minutes, 30, 45?

That's a tougher question to answer.

I'd say being in charge comes with the responsibility of keeping the flow going.

Occasionally we'll see 6 people joining at intervals of 1 minute. This could lead to a Vortex continually waiting in base in order to fly in all six in one go.

Really, how long one waits depends on the situation in the field, but I've really never experienced having to wait more than 5-10 minutes.

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Can ASL (or whoever is in command) force you to respawn or can you refuse to respawn?  (I'm thinking of rule 2 vs rule 3 being an issue here)

Technically, there's no such thing as an "unlawful order" on AWE.

He could ask you to bury yourself on top of your own hand grenade, and you would have to follow that order.

 

 

[Minipily]

I imagine you are referring to being told to respawn from the Carrier, this is because there was a FOB built and there is no direct line to teleport to the FOB from the carrier at this time. We were playing purely as a ground force and using the FOB as a sort of main base to respawn and depart from.

 

Hope this clears it up, there was instructions on the map as well if you didn't notice.

[Johnson]

5 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Who's responsible for getting you reinserted?  Is it whoever is in command or the player himself?  Presuming that whoever is in command is aware that you are waiting for a reinsert.

Almost every time there are players on AWE someone is tasked with reinserting, be it a Vortex pilot dropping troops off from the Freedom, landing when and were instructed, or a Logi element deploying boots-on-the-ground via Humvee. So the leading Alpha element assigns this responsibility to a unit and I almost never see this not done.

 

5 hours ago, Stanhope said:

What should you do after waiting a reasonable time for a reinsert?  Message whoever is in command?  Get on long-range and remind him again?

I would say geting on short or long-range, depending on the range of course, is an extremely acceptable and reasonable response, one that I would persoanlly prefer should a player be waiting for too long however a competent element leader will always notice that players are awaiting deployment, be in respawns or new JIPs.

 

5 hours ago, Stanhope said:

What should you do if you encounter a jet that is hovering 2m above the spawnpad after spawning in?  Get in touch with a modded mod?  Try to get it unstuck yourself?  Find a different solution?  

Pretty sure shooting it once with a small arms works just fine. Think I read about that on Stiletto feedback.

 

 

 

 

I didn't answer the other questions as it seems they were pretty well answered already.

 

In addition, I hope these questions did not arise after today's operation since I made sure there was unit on reinserts constantly (in this case Logi). As for respawning, I personally never ordered this so I don't know how it could relate.

[Johnson]

3 hours ago, Amentes said:

What should never happen is a player leaving spawn without having communicated with the people in the field. There's no excuse for that, considering how easy that goal is to achieve.

 

[Stanhope]

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

I imagine you are referring to being told to respawn from the Carrier, this is because there was a FOB built and there is no direct line to teleport to the FOB from the carrier at this time. We were playing purely as a ground force and using the FOB as a sort of main base to respawn and depart from.

 

Hope this clears it up, there was instructions on the map as well if you didn't notice.

I was well aware of that.  These questions aren't specifically about last night.
 

6 hours ago, J0hnson said:

Pretty sure shooting it once with a small arms works just fine. Think I read about that on Stiletto feedback.

I must have encountered an unusually stubborn jet as i emptied half a mag into it.  (One shot at a time semi-auto, doing the service thing several times not shooting any of the ordinance)

[Stanhope]

4 minutes ago, Minipily said:

It will also fix the "respawning issue" so people don't have to cry about respawning in order to spawn at the FOB like command told them to.

As you can read in Ryko's reply i can refuse to respawn if I prefer that.  

I'm not doing it to be difficult, I just rather don't kill myself if it's not absolutely needed (because for example I'm bugged somehow and I think respawning might fix it).  If command would have told me to take a boat and walk to the FOB I would have taken a bloody boat, drove it to the shore and hiked the rest of the way.    

Quoting from this topic:

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Players are encouraged to play to whatever level of realism that they prefer.  ...

As long as you play your role, follow the orders of your superior, and follow the server guidelines, everyone should be able to get along no matter what style of gameplay you wish to follow. However, it is possible that one player's gameplay preference may rub up uncomfortably against the preferences of another. At that point, you have three options:

 

1. Ask the other player to respect your preference (this can be as simple as a player in third-person revealing targets to a player who is playing first-person, who couldn't normally see them).

2. Acknowledge that other players have alternate preferences, and live with it.

3. Play somewhere else.

 

Now a few hours ago I would have respawned when told to by ASL as it is nowhere mentioned he cannot order you to do that.  Right now however it is mentioned I have the right to refuse to do that.  So I'm in compliance with server guidelines.  Also mentioned in Ryko's reply is that it is ASLs responsibility to make sure players are reinserted.  Respawning is in my opinion not the same as a reinsert and i don't have to respawn if i don't want to.

Mini I'm also going to point you towards the above quote.  Either pick option 1, 2 or 3.  Don't just be salty somewhere on the forum.

[Minipily]

2 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Now a few hours ago I would have respawned when told to by ASL as it is nowhere mentioned he cannot order you to do that.  Right now however it is mentioned I have the right to refuse to do that.  So I'm in compliance with server guidelines.  Also mentioned in Ryko's reply is that it is ASLs responsibility to make sure players are reinserted.  Respawning is in my opinion not the same as a reinsert and i don't have to respawn if i don't want to.

Mini I'm also going to point you towards the above quote.  Either pick option 1, 2 or 3.  Don't just be salty somewhere on the forum.

Well I think me and Johnson both agreed that you don't have to play if you didn't want to do what he was ordering. If there's no way to actually teleport to the FOB, then that is indeed the only way we could do it. We were playing from a stand point that the FOB was the main area for reinforcements to come from, scrapping the USS Freedom from the rest of the picture once we had the FOB up. Of course people spawn at the Carrier initially because of mission design, but once they had their gear and respawned over to the FOB, it was all conducted from there.

 

So yeah, if you don't want to respawn and there wasn't anything Johnson wanted to do about it in ASL because he was prioritizing ground forces and the fun of the rest of the server, then I don't really know what to do for you. No need to be rude and call me salty, I'm just saying that that was the way command was ordering the mission and if it didn't make you happy, then apologies but he was focusing on making sure everyone else was having fun.

 

So yeah, I go option 2 because it indeed goes both ways, command had his preferences for the mission and it seemed to work for everyone else. If he can't make everyone happy then oh well, he's just making sure the majority do and they did.

[Stanhope]

Yes i do get that making sure vortex is sitting on their ass doing nothing for 15+ minutes is a real priority and that they couldn't have taken 2 minutes to fly me over to the FOB.  

 

And seeing how the carrier was out of the picture i guess you took your plane off from thin air?

[Minipily]

23 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

Yes i do get that making sure vortex is sitting on their ass doing nothing for 15+ minutes is a real priority and that they couldn't have taken 2 minutes to fly me over to the FOB.  

 

And seeing how the carrier was out of the picture i guess you took your plane off from thin air?

Well if we weren't using a shit jet mod we might not have been waiting so long for it to get sorted, also waiting for the command to go which was lengthened because ASL crashed. I'd rather not fly you in until I'm ordered to, and my orders were to standby on the deck with a fast mover awaiting the order to set off for Recce and CAS.

 

USS Freedom was out of the picture as a spawn point for the infantry, not for the air crew. As you'd expect from infantry, they aren't supposed to be disembarking from a Gerald R. Ford Class Carrier.

[Ryko]

I think this thread has fulfilled its function and I feel like it's turning into an episode of airing grievances. If there are additional points that haven't been covered, start a new thread.