Luetin's Zeus Operating guide tba - Please give thoughts on Ambush

[Guest Luetin]

 

In the meantime I actually had a question about one area of a guide I am building. Now back on I think it was operation Mike we played with the idea of Ambushes, the problem was that in my mind an ambush was more than just some CSAT lying prone, it was more considered than that with them maybe covered with branches and foliage basically really a proper ambush. Now there is nothing we can do to simulate that and also on the mission I implemented the ambushing on some people even questioned it was suspicious how some players magically found the ambushes well ahead of the main convoy. We have no way to determine the truth of that but it led us to conclude it was something that could easily happen in the future with an ambush.

 

So I figured the only way you could really do a true ambush was to literally just drop a CSAT unit almost bang on the players at the last minute. This presents obvious problems such as people being like WTF. Also we run into the issue that for NATO to similarly ambush CSAT is near impossible as the AI can usually detect human players in proximity.

 

So my question is two fold - should ambushes be a thing at all, and if so how should be implement them (including the fact that I livestream)

 

below is my initial concept. Please add any suggestions.

 

----- ALSO ---- If you had any general feedback about Zeus and how to improve it put that below and I will try as best to explain it. Its all an ongoing development and I regularly consider how I could make it better or more challenging.

 

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Ambushing is something that I have only played around with once before but I want to try and throw it in some missions sparsely, using it too much I am sure would becoming irritating but I think if there is a reasonable cause to use an ambush then it could help the CSAT team greatly. However this I am sure will be again a contentious one for the reasons I outline below, ultimately what you are left to rely on is that the Zeus player is not abusing their power and the players trust them. I am open to further suggestions on how best to implement this.

 

• It is important to announce to the players either in the mission brief or just on server chat that they may face ambushes, no player likes to suddenly just have AI pop up on them, but if they know its a possibility then they can better guard against it by keeping their spacing well apart and best planning their routes to an objective both in and out.

• An ambush is difficult to simulate in ARMA because human players have a habit to use thermal optics, also there is the possibility for me of disguised stream sniping where players magically gravitate towards an ambush area. Also the AI sometimes can give away their own position too early by engaging an unintended target.

• The best solution is to decide how many units you wish to have as an ambush, a general rule of thumb for a large to medium mission could be 1-2 squads, for a smaller mission make it 1-2 fireteams.

• Pre-designate your ambush location. You will need to keep this concealed from the players and if livestreaming do not announce this either. - this is obviously contentious hence the need to keep testing this.

• In order to simulate an ambush the only way this can happen so as to genuinely surprise and catch out players is to drop units in as players approach and then trigger the ambush. As a Zeus you will have to keep track of where other players are and remember your ambush locations.

• Ambushes could be used to guard against an objective but they should not be placed inside a compound of hard cover or an open area like a field, realistically the rationale is that the could be lying in soft cover like long grass or trees maybe with their own personal camoflage as well to conceal them. They could also be used to intercept a target such as a vehicle or stop a captured objective delivery.

 

 

That is the ambush concept please leave your thoughts on this, or any aspect of my Zeus missions.

 

thanks guys.

[xSniper1982]

It's a really interesting concept, and I completely understand the problems with implementation.

Like you said, players tend to use Thermal optics like the Laser Designator to scout ahead of themselves.
Having the AI in some of the really tall grass like at the marshes will conceal them completely, and I believe there is a way to set them so that they do not engage (Stealth?), this would allow you to wait until players walk right into the area before selecting your CSAT and telling them they're clear to engage.

Not sure if it works, but definitely worth testing out.

As far as players ambushing the CSAT, it can work perfectly if people play smart.
The guys doing the ambush can hide in buildings/cover with NO view of the enemy to prevent the AI from spotting them, and wait for an Observer (UAV or Player at distance) to inform them that the targets are in the designated position.
The players can then stand/crouch, move into windows, edges, gaps or onto a ridge line within a few seconds to initiate the ambush.

It's definitely going to take some time to get it working as intended and it will likely cause a lot of rage... but definitely sounds worth trying out.

[P057code]

- Okay please note that I will post a video here once it is finished -

 

In the meantime I actually had a question about one area of a guide I am building. Now back on I think it was operation Mike we played with the idea of Ambushes, the problem was that in my mind an ambush was more than just some CSAT lying prone, it was more considered than that with them maybe covered with branches and foliage basically really a proper ambush. Now there is nothing we can do to simulate that and also on the mission I implemented the ambushing on some people even questioned it was suspicious how some players magically found the ambushes well ahead of the main convoy. We have no way to determine the truth of that but it led us to conclude it was something that could easily happen in the future with an ambush.

 

So I figured the only way you could really do a true ambush was to literally just drop a CSAT unit almost bang on the players at the last minute. This presents obvious problems such as people being like WTF. Also we run into the issue that for NATO to similarly ambush CSAT is near impossible as the AI can usually detect human players in proximity.

 

So my question is two fold - should ambushes be a thing at all, and if so how should be implement them (including the fact that I livestream)

 

below is my initial concept. Please add any suggestions.

 

----- ALSO ---- If you had any general feedback about Zeus and how to improve it put that below and I will try as best to explain it. Its all an ongoing development and I regularly consider how I could make it better or more challenging.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ambushing is something that I have only played around with once before but I want to try and throw it in some missions sparsely, using it too much I am sure would becoming irritating but I think if there is a reasonable cause to use an ambush then it could help the CSAT team greatly. However this I am sure will be again a contentious one for the reasons I outline below, ultimately what you are left to rely on is that the Zeus player is not abusing their power and the players trust them. I am open to further suggestions on how best to implement this.

 

• It is important to announce to the players either in the mission brief or just on server chat that they may face ambushes, no player likes to suddenly just have AI pop up on them, but if they know its a possibility then they can better guard against it by keeping their spacing well apart and best planning their routes to an objective both in and out.

• An ambush is difficult to simulate in ARMA because human players have a habit to use thermal optics, also there is the possibility for me of disguised stream sniping where players magically gravitate towards an ambush area. Also the AI sometimes can give away their own position too early by engaging an unintended target.

• The best solution is to decide how many units you wish to have as an ambush, a general rule of thumb for a large to medium mission could be 1-2 squads, for a smaller mission make it 1-2 fireteams.

• Pre-designate your ambush location. You will need to keep this concealed from the players and if livestreaming do not announce this either. - this is obviously contentious hence the need to keep testing this.

• In order to simulate an ambush the only way this can happen so as to genuinely surprise and catch out players is to drop units in as players approach and then trigger the ambush. As a Zeus you will have to keep track of where other players are and remember your ambush locations.

• Ambushes could be used to guard against an objective but they should not be placed inside a compound of hard cover or an open area like a field, realistically the rationale is that the could be lying in soft cover like long grass or trees maybe with their own personal camoflage as well to conceal them. They could also be used to intercept a target such as a vehicle or stop a captured objective delivery.

 

Its something that depends a lot on what sort of player you're catering for.

 

A lot of the guys who turn up for the Zeus missions are either the casual player, who come in because they've seen the stream, and want to be part of that, or the sort that are regular players on EU1, EU2 or EU3, and work as a team towards the objectives set (sometimes in a non linear fashion, by doglegging up the ridgelines you least expect them to go up).

There've been a couple of nights I've taken part in, which would have been perfect for a proper, well set ambush (Op. Mike for instance), which, if you'd have insisted on the players returning as a convoy, instead of them returning to places en route (we were helidropped in at Agios after the first 'contact', then went as a QRF to the second contact from there), a well placed ambush in a bottleneck would have been very effective. 

 

I suppose a lot of it depends on what you aim to achieve, and how you want to do it. 

 

Alternatively, something which John has been doing on his EU2 Zeus nights, is picking 2 or 3 players, and moving them to the CSAT side, and they're fighting alongside AI as an 'irregular force'. If you were so inclined, you could pick 3 or 4 players (regulars, or people you choose), change them sides within Zeus, and get them to position where an ambush would be perfect, then once they tell you they're ready or got eyes on the 'friendlies', you could drop a couple of Fire Teams in to support them, or alternatively, if the friendlies don't come near, you don't need to waste your unit cap to drop unused troops in.

 

I'm sure theres plenty of other options available as well.

[Cebi]

Hi
For start i will say that i am very new to your Zeus early morning missions as i attanded my first last friday/saturday. Since then i watched some records and have been greatly entertained (thank you).

Thoughts - Ambushes:

The fact that you are livestreaming with public players is in itself killer of all preset ambushes. Spawning units around players is for me too gamey and i would reather not have ambushes at all if it has some potential to break immersion.

To my knowladge you are not using mines too often. Is it because zeus by default will mark all spawned mines on map for players to see? I heard about script that removes just that.

Some more thoughts:

- Limit use of TI devices amongst players: Players will always try to get as much intel as they could before engaging enemy often from safe distance outside of AI effective range. It is ridiculous as almost everybody i saw whiped up laserdesignators and scaned the field before moving in on enemy positions.

- Limit use of highpower optics:
Navids with AMS every other autorifleman. If you would limit or even preset gear of every role, you will efectively lower required count of enemy AI needed to keep dificulty level. Iron sights are fun too :-)

- Disable extended map info: Enemy is visible on map after spotting = kinder garden mode

- Disable HUD waypoint info: Tied with above. Shift+click spoted E on map and engage. Shift+click to range target. Shift+click to navigate. Shift+click to orgasm...etc.

- Disable 3rd person view: Players tends to abuse this as much as they can. Efectively decreasing dificulty of mission.

- Disable croshair: Why is this even on?

Best regards
Cebi

edit: spell check, please excuse my english

[Guest Luetin]

Its something that depends a lot on what sort of player you're catering for.

 

A lot of the guys who turn up for the Zeus missions are either the casual player, who come in because they've seen the stream, and want to be part of that, or the sort that are regular players on EU1, EU2 or EU3, and work as a team towards the objectives set (sometimes in a non linear fashion, by doglegging up the ridgelines you least expect them to go up).

There've been a couple of nights I've taken part in, which would have been perfect for a proper, well set ambush (Op. Mike for instance), which, if you'd have insisted on the players returning as a convoy, instead of them returning to places en route (we were helidropped in at Agios after the first 'contact', then went as a QRF to the second contact from there), a well placed ambush in a bottleneck would have been very effective. 

 

I suppose a lot of it depends on what you aim to achieve, and how you want to do it. 

 

Alternatively, something which John has been doing on his EU2 Zeus nights, is picking 2 or 3 players, and moving them to the CSAT side, and they're fighting alongside AI as an 'irregular force'. If you were so inclined, you could pick 3 or 4 players (regulars, or people you choose), change them sides within Zeus, and get them to position where an ambush would be perfect, then once they tell you they're ready or got eyes on the 'friendlies', you could drop a couple of Fire Teams in to support them, or alternatively, if the friendlies don't come near, you don't need to waste your unit cap to drop unused troops in.

 

I'm sure theres plenty of other options available as well.

 

 

I wasnt actually aware we were okay to do switching of players to CSAT hence why I generally havent done this. If that is possible then I will be definitely implementing that. Where do the guys who are switched respawn though is my first question. Other than that it will be a very simple solution to helping make missions more engaging.

Hi

For start i will say that i am very new to your Zeus early morning missions as i attanded my first last friday/saturday. Since then i watched some records and have been greatly entertained (thank you).

Thoughts - Ambushes:

The fact that you are livestreaming with public players is in itself killer of all preset ambushes. Spawning units around players is for me too gamey and i would reather not have ambushes at all if it has some potetial to break immersion.

To my knowladge you are not using mines too often. Is it because zeus by default will mark all spawned mines on map for players to see? I heard about script that removes just that.

Some more thoughts:

- Limit use of TI devices amongst players: Players will always try to get as much intel as they could before engaging enemy often from safe distance outside of AI effective range. It is ridiculous as almost everybody i saw whiped up laserdesignators and scaned the field before moving in on enemy positions.

- Limit use of highpower optics:

Navids with AMS every other autorifleman. If you would limit or even preset gear of every role, you will efectively lower required count of enemy AI needed to keep dificulty level. Iron sights are fun too :-)

- Disable extended map info: Enemy is visible on map after spotting = kinder garden mode

- Disable HUD waypoint info: Tied with above. Shift+click spoted E on map and engage. Shift+click to range target. Shift+click to navigate. Shift+click to orgasm...etc.

- Disable 3rd person view: Players tends to abuse this as much as they can. Efectively decreasing dificulty of mission.

- Disable croshair: Why is this even on?

Best regards

Cebi

edit: spell check, please excuse my english

 

Yeah some good ideas in here, obviously we dont want it to become a milsim as such its still meant to be fairly casual. However at the same time I want to see an increase in players using actual comms and teamwork not just farming enemy. I am not sure if I can make the changes I want to make by tonight, but on Saturday I will try and work with Ahoy Staff to refine just what changes I want to see on the EU4 server so that we can improve the challenge to players fairly.

[Someone]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with the way the ambush of "Operation Mike" turned out.

Sure, it looked fishy on the playback and stream sniping may ruin the "surprise" part of it for some of the players, but it's the same with the regular missions. You're always going to have these issues, you cannot stop people from stream sniping. There are always a few suspicious stream snipers, people who seem to have intel which they shouldn't have, but that intel is usually hidden by huge amounts of bad/incorrect intel. Stream sniping is bad, the people doing it are ruining the most fun part of what a zeus mission is for themselves, and that's the fact that you have no idea what's coming.

 

As someone who doesn't stream snipe, it's very difficult to tell the "good" and the "bad" intel apart. Generally, while on the ground you have very little to no knowledge of what's going on, where the other squads are, how they're planning to engage, how the mission looks etc. We generally have far less intel than you as a Zeus presume we do. Sometimes you're frustrated on stream because we're not playing the mission the way you originally intend the mission to be played and almost all of those times that can be tracked back to the troops not having any idea of what's going on. It's the same with these road blocks.

I was flying troops around during OP mike and I had no idea where the ambushes were. On several occasions the markers were completely wrong. Sure, someone might have stream sniped and thus broken the immersion for themselves, but me personally didn't suffer too much from it.

I'd personally rather have these well planned ambushes, as in OP Mike, rather than something which you're forced to build on the fly. The ambush played out well from our perspective and even though the surprise of the ambush may have been compromised it was still a really nice addon to the gameplay.

Instead of trying to hide these ambushes from stream snipes and thus creating less planned ambushes, perhaps change tactic and make them rely less on the "surprise" part? Create heavier roadblocks instead, give the AI some mounted guns, or even some lighter armor. Make sure that the AI is capable of fighting back, give them the power to completely stop a convoy in their tracks. This ofc means that the vehicle we have to guard will need to be heavier armored, as it's likely to take heavier fire, but at least it doesn't leave these ambushes useless.

[Pac Of Man]

I wasnt actually aware we were okay to do switching of players to CSAT hence why I generally havent done this. If that is possible then I will be definitely implementing that. Where do the guys who are switched respawn though is my first question. Other than that it will be a very simple solution to helping make missions more engaging.

Could it be possible that the mission file used could be edited to have a small csat base (like on eu3)

 

And also with the removal of the spotting stuff as Cebi suggested could you use a csat truck or two to block roads e.g players in convoy roll though small village, at the end are two zamaks ready to block the road but hidden (to really stop spotting maybe only use helis half way though or something) as players come close the trucks block the road and the players are surrounded by csat squads.

[Guest Luetin]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with the way the ambush of "Operation Mike" turned out.

Sure, it looked fishy on the playback and stream sniping may ruin the "surprise" part of it for some of the players, but it's the same with the regular missions. You're always going to have these issues, you cannot stop people from stream sniping. There are always a few suspicious stream snipers, people who seem to have intel which they shouldn't have, but that intel is usually hidden by huge amounts of bad/incorrect intel. Stream sniping is bad, the people doing it are ruining the most fun part of what a zeus mission is for themselves, and that's the fact that you have no idea what's coming.

 

As someone who doesn't stream snipe, it's very difficult to tell the "good" and the "bad" intel apart. Generally, while on the ground you have very little to no knowledge of what's going on, where the other squads are, how they're planning to engage, how the mission looks etc. We generally have far less intel than you as a Zeus presume we do. Sometimes you're frustrated on stream because we're not playing the mission the way you originally intend the mission to be played and almost all of those times that can be tracked back to the troops not having any idea of what's going on. It's the same with these road blocks.

I was flying troops around during OP mike and I had no idea where the ambushes were. On several occasions the markers were completely wrong. Sure, someone might have stream sniped and thus broken the immersion for themselves, but me personally didn't suffer too much from it.

I'd personally rather have these well planned ambushes, as in OP Mike, rather than something which you're forced to build on the fly. The ambush played out well from our perspective and even though the surprise of the ambush may have been compromised it was still a really nice addon to the gameplay.

Instead of trying to hide these ambushes from stream snipes and thus creating less planned ambushes, perhaps change tactic and make them rely less on the "surprise" part? Create heavier roadblocks instead, give the AI some mounted guns, or even some lighter armor. Make sure that the AI is capable of fighting back, give them the power to completely stop a convoy in their tracks. This ofc means that the vehicle we have to guard will need to be heavier armored, as it's likely to take heavier fire, but at least it doesn't leave these ambushes useless.

 

To just address your point about me being unhappy because a mission isnt playing out how I intended. This usually isnt fully accurate its less that I am unhappy with how its playing out and more that I am somewhat limited in just how well I can defend a base. When laying in units I cannot place just endless enemy down this would make the server become extremely laggy. So I have to limit what I place down and I usually try and anticipate where the nato team are coming. The frustration comes for me when players then choose a different direction. So I then have to sometimes make a judgement do I allow them to just continue and risk the mission being over much sooner than we expected? or do I counter that?

 

Ultimately Zeus missions are not real life they are an experience for the players so while I can sometimes use real life rationale for certain situations sometimes just dropping units in on the ground is the only way I can ensure a mission plays out for an acceptable amount of time so everyone gets a good experience.

 

Also an endless worry for me is have X squad checked the stream seen where the biggest concentration of units are and decided a different route. I would never accuse people of this unless I had sufficient reason or evidence to do so, but you also have to try and see it from my pov that this is a fear and concern I have to consider all the time, and it frustrates me not because of how much it compromises the mission but simply because I dont understand why people would choose to stream snipe and spoil it for themselves and others as well.

 

Overall 99% of people who come to the missions understand the decisions made are to create the best mission experience I can and thats what I am striving to always improve on.

[Cebi]

@Luetin:
I see your point about more relaxed aproach to the mission and deeply respect that althought you can nudge players to more "serious" teamplay just by cleverly limiting them.
 
For example:
I did get impresion during watching your streams that you want to get players to manuever more which is without doubt more enjoyeble for your viewers, for players and in the end for you. Mortaring them to force them to move and not camp hilltops is one aproach which is quite demanding on you as zeus as you need to micro mortar/arty (which you do quite a lot during some ops). The couse of this behaviour is gear they take to combat, not inability to plan and execute movement. Consider limiting long range optics.

[ifnt05]

Limiting or getting rid of Thermal Optics is a nice idea, makes spotting harder. Limiting powered scopes to Marskman/Spotter/Sniper is also makes people move closer and engage in a different way (different from the usual I&A way).

 

 

- Disable extended map info: Enemy is visible on map after spotting = kinder garden mode
- Disable HUD waypoint info: Tied with above. Shift+click spoted E on map and engage. Shift+click to range target. Shift+click to navigate. Shift+click to orgasm...etc.
- Disable 3rd person view: Players tends to abuse this as much as they can. Efectively decreasing dificulty of mission.
- Disable croshair: Why is this even on?

 

Extended map info is a huge help thats for sure and maybe getting rid of it is a good idea, but then you rely on other people (public game) to mark EI and be precise.

Hud waypoint wont do anything, we use rangefinders to range stuff (if you disable extended map info, ranging target is not even an issue anymore), and waypoints are useful for rallying up and for pilots marking an LZ.

3rd person abuse is an issue in PVP, againts AI its useless. Maybe you can see above some walls, but i dont know anyone who uses this on Zeus nights. Landing a Mohawk or Huron in 1st person only makes the game harder (we dont always have 5 really good pilots).

Crosshair is useless, never used it, never will, leaving it on or turning it off wont make any difference.

 

 

I see your point about more relaxed aproach to the mission and deeply respect that althought you can nudge players to more "serious" teamplay just by cleverly limiting them.

 

Limiting players is nice and fair, but you have to keep it casual too. Its a bunch of random people playing together one night a week. Disable everything that makes the game casual and everyone will be frustrated before the mission ends.

 

 

----- ALSO ---- If you had any general feedback about Zeus and how to improve it put that below and I will try as best to explain it. Its all an ongoing development and I regularly consider how I could make it better or more challenging.

 

Less night mission (dawn and dusk looks awesome ingame).

Using more infantry maybe, and less heavy armor and arty. Infantry is the biggest threat, and an actual challenge for the players. Armor is something that we handle from kilometers if its not behind cover (hbarriers or something), its a simple lock and shoot. Also getting hammered by arty and mortar is not a nice feeling, and sometimes it feels "overused". Maybe using less rounds, or switching it to airstrikes/helos this would also make the players move forward.

 

People dont move if they dont know what to expect, so giving out more information about the base, or maybe giving some hints to the commander* so he can give us orders faster and be precise about it.

 

*usually thats John or Scottie, so they can play the game as a "powerless" zeus with actual intel and help the players a bit more without making it too easy.

[Guest Luetin]

Rather than reply to each post here, I will just say I am aware of most of this and addressing it in a video I hope to have out for Sunday.

[P057code]

Limiting or getting rid of Thermal Optics is a nice idea, makes spotting harder. Limiting powered scopes to Marskman/Spotter/Sniper is also makes people move closer and engage in a different way (different from the usual I&A way).

 

 

 

Extended map info is a huge help thats for sure and maybe getting rid of it is a good idea, but then you rely on other people (public game) to mark EI and be precise.

Hud waypoint wont do anything, we use rangefinders to range stuff (if you disable extended map info, ranging target is not even an issue anymore), and waypoints are useful for rallying up and for pilots marking an LZ.

3rd person abuse is an issue in PVP, againts AI its useless. Maybe you can see above some walls, but i dont know anyone who uses this on Zeus nights. Landing a Mohawk or Huron in 1st person only makes the game harder (we dont always have 5 really good pilots).

Crosshair is useless, never used it, never will, leaving it on or turning it off wont make any difference.

 

 

 

Limiting players is nice and fair, but you have to keep it casual too. Its a bunch of random people playing together one night a week. Disable everything that makes the game casual and everyone will be frustrated before the mission ends.

 

 

 

Less night mission (dawn and dusk looks awesome ingame).

Using more infantry maybe, and less heavy armor and arty. Infantry is the biggest threat, and an actual challenge for the players. Armor is something that we handle from kilometers if its not behind cover (hbarriers or something), its a simple lock and shoot. Also getting hammered by arty and mortar is not a nice feeling, and sometimes it feels "overused". Maybe using less rounds, or switching it to airstrikes/helos this would also make the players move forward.

 

People dont move if they dont know what to expect, so giving out more information about the base, or maybe giving some hints to the commander* so he can give us orders faster and be precise about it.

 

*usually thats John or Scottie, so they can play the game as a "powerless" zeus with actual intel and help the players a bit more without making it too easy.

 

To carry on from what Johnny has put, some of our best/favourite missions are the ones where theres little/no armour involved, such as the Island assault missions where we've had to think out how to assault, and small, well placed units have caused us large amounts of trouble. Limiting UAV/FSG support is also something that I can see working, and may make for better gameplay, as it forces players to think on their feet so to speak.

Limiting long range optics is an idea that may work, as, its more than easy for a decent player to stand off and engage from 1000+metres and completely obliterate a team that won't fire back.

I enjoyed the defence mission the other week, where the more proactive AI infantry was involved, and I feel that if they were used as a defensive tool on a Zeus night in a mission (something like Op Onslaught played using that could be completely different, as would an Op.Guerilla done again using the modified AI), then the type of play expected may be different.

 

I sometimes get a bit fed up of the constant grind of taking out AI vehicles, as they can be a bit OP in some areas, and cause a blockage to occur, although, using a Marid or Ifrit in a hilly area where they're expected, combined with foot patrols of infantry, could be interesting.

 

As for the 'changing sides' question, I know its possible within Zeus (maybe the Ares side) to set an OPFOR/CSAT spawn point, which you can move depending on the state of play. If the way you want to do things involves using players playing as CSAT/AAF, then perhaps get that set up before you start streaming, and they can be a hidden extra that people on the stream don't see, and as such, won't be aware of until they appear in the middle of an ambush, or a battle. Its easy enough for them to hide away in a side channel on Teamspeak, and to contact you that way, that way, you could even get involved yourself as a 'player', instead of controlling the AI and Zeus/play that way.

 

For the missions, I'd also like to see a slight change to the way in which we use the CAS aircraft (or any form of fire support, such as Mortars or Pawnee). As it is now, a lot of pilots are more than happy to fly over the 'front line' and pick up targets that way. I'd like to see it used in the way in which the mortars were used last week on the two missions. Where a squad can contact the FSG team, either by TS or side chat, and 'talk' them onto target, by marking it on the map with a specific marker, then asking for the fire to be provided (we asked for a mortar strike to be danger close to ourselves when pinned down by infantry twice last week, and both times, we managed to get enough, accurate, support to allow us to get back into the fight. This also occured on the second mission when we attacked from the north before we got to the wall where the Ifrit got stuck, we asked the mortar team to lay smoke for us, and it allowed us enough cover to push forward.

Of course, this is something that a pilot may struggle to attain, in terms of accuracy, but, is it something, that you could provide yourself, using the 'airstrike' instructions within Zeus, (as well as the Mortar or Artillery support). You may not want to do this, but I hate facing air support or mortars more than facing a tank or IFV. At least you can see the tank/IFV before it kills you.

 

**off topic deviation alert**

 

A lot of the players we see on EU4 for the Zeus nights are becoming regulars, as well as the few extras you see, so let us know what you want from us, and we'll try and help you out the other way. If you want to supply an LZ/FOB for us to work from, tell us, don't leave it unmarked and then wonder why things go wrong (we potato people can be a bit stubborn at times ), if you want us not to use LMGs, then ask us, we can try to get a loadout thats more CQB or marksman based. I feel that the streams are something that everyone involved can benefit from, from yourself, to the players and finally, Ahoyworld.

I record my POV on most nights, and a fair few others do. We may not be able to stream, but everything we do on there is something that can be used to make a stream night more entertaining or educational to the viewer, then I'll be glad to help, and I'm sure others will.

 

Spot a bit of good play from someone on the stream, ask if someone on there is recording it afterwards, then you can get a bit of video from them explaining how they ended up there, such as the Ezlan solo incident the other week. To view that from his POV would be something completely enthralling from a specators POV (probably just as good as watching your stream), we all know how it ended, but of course, his view was completely different to others.

The same as if you spot something that leaves you confused as to how the team ended up where they did (such as the right flank team on Op. Mike, who went wandering through the woods on the way to the castle), theres a lot of stuff that won't appear on your stream, such as the conversations between players on TS where the route is discussed and how we're going to do it, and I'm sure, if they were made known, then the gameplay would improve. If theres anything that can be done to improve the stream as a whole, let us know.

[Guest Luetin]

The best thing to do will be to have a discussion about this after the Zeus mission tonight, as I plan to make some plans through the next week.

 

So lets bring all this up then and we can discuss plans.

[P057code]

The best thing to do will be to have a discussion about this after the Zeus mission tonight, as I plan to make some plans through the next week.

 

So lets bring all this up then and we can discuss plans.

Sounds like an idea.

[Guest Luetin]

Okay just commenting on here to say that I have now added my Zeus players guide to the OP.

 

If you have feedback to add please do so here but also on the video itself. Cheers.

[miklide]

Luetin, you mentioned in video about the ability to force zeus-spawned units to ignore incoming fire. Is this something to do with the new disableAI: Autocombat and Supression options?

[Guest Luetin]

Luetin, you mentioned in video about the ability to force zeus-spawned units to ignore incoming fire. Is this something to do with the new disableAI: Autocombat and Supression options?

 

have to ask bacon but I would imagine yes its something like this.

[laforte]

Nice topic, short and quick to read replies (slow clap). 

[Liru the Lcpl.]

This is a bit of a late post (sorry, i'm a little new to this community!) but I just wanted to implement my two Ahoycoins into this discussion based on my own experience making and playing Zeus missions for Arma ops in the past.

 

Luetin, normally ambushes can be done in a multitude of ways, but your operations are a special circumstance based on the fact that you livestream them, so ambushes usually get ruined by stream snipers. I see that you've suggested literally dropping units in on squads, and I have something to add into that concept. A year ago I was addressed with a similar problem with a Zeus who wanted to stream the mission, but didn't want the suprises to be ruined. So we spent the day beforehand planning the operation as the game master and moderator and saved the entire operation via ARES's save system, which gave us an idea. Spend some time before you start the stream planning out your ambush, from loadout to positions, then save it, copy and paste the code in a notepad, then when the time is right, load the code into the game when you want the ambush occurs. This allows not only that suprise factor to happen, but if done at the correct time you will catch those pesky stream snipers off guard, and it will be extremely beleivable based on unit placement and loadout (ghili suits, behind bushes, etc.) and it just takes a good 4-16 units, depending on the amount of players that triggur the ambush to create a large enough obstacle for units to cross. I've had a Zeus operation of 56 players get spooked and freak out when I had a simple, well placed fireteam ambush the entire group from a hill top, and they ended up playing the entire rest of the game extremely cautious to the point where it dragged the game an hour longer than I expected, giving me more time to make small tweaks to the OPFOR force and make the operation more enjoyable for everyone.

 

These "spawn" ambushes work the best in ghilis outside or garrisons in bulidings. My advice with buildings though is that do not auto garrison them and save with ARES, because ARES doesn't save garrisons in the save code, so manual placement is required. It's also entirely possible to do ambushes with a vehicle or two, just to spice things up, and possible turn the ambush into a NATO meatgrinder if people are just charging an operation head on.

 

That's just my two ahoycoins from my previous experiences. I can write up more if you wish, because there are plenty of ambush stratagies that can be used. My favorite is the simple "that covered transport has no driver and looks empty and derelict, but when you get close the Zeus hits G and a wild squad of CSAT appear!" ambush, but there are a surprisingly large number of ways you can approach this topic.

 

On a final note, I just wanted to make a small recommendation to one of your Zeus tactics regarding artillery. First off, I think you're great with it, and if people are bunched up like retards in a warzone, its their fault (you even give them a warning shot! Most Zeuses aren't so nice!) but in my Milsim days you generally had some sort of spotter for the artillery. Now I get that some open hilltops and specific key areas will be already "fire on sight" but you have a few videos where you seem to fire the artillery randomly, moving the blast area to troops even when you don't have a reason to other than to startle them. But any other reason (a squad engagement and CSAT calls artillery, some idiot has their IR pointer on in a night op and its within viewing distance of some CSAT, a vehicle detects an aircraft dropping in troops) is a valid reason to shell a motor  or howitzer shot at BLUEFOR. Other than this, I think you're a great Zeus!

 

I look forward to finally running one of your ops this Friday!

 

-Lcpl Liru

[P057code]

Having tested the ambush technique last night, I've found setting the units to stealth and hiding them on likely lines of approach, works fantastically well. The sheer 'what the hell' coming on TS from the 6 man NATO team pushing in, was quite interesting (took them about 20 minutes to get past 3 rifle squads, and 2 statics). Testing is something that needs to be looked at...

[xSniper1982]

Having tested the ambush technique last night, I've found setting the units to stealth and hiding them on likely lines of approach, works fantastically well. The sheer 'what the hell' coming on TS from the 6 man NATO team pushing in, was quite interesting (took them about 20 minutes to get past 3 rifle squads, and 2 statics). Testing is something that needs to be looked at...

 

As one of the people taking part. I can second this, as I said previously having them on stealth works REALLY well if they're well placed.