INVADE & ANNEX AMBIENT ENEMY CONCEPT

[AridApple]

I know you guys at ahoy world must be flooded with suggestions for Invade and annex, and I have only just recently started a forum account, but the Invade & Annex game mode is what keeps me returning to Arma 3. So a simple concept would be to apply a trigger system that activates the location module (RANDOMLY POPULATES NEARBY BUILDINGS WITH A SPECIFIC FACTION AND TYPE OF UNIT), Which would allow for a much more diverse game that won't directly take a toll on performance. Some of you might ask, "why would we need this?" and my reply is this: Currently, other than the current objectives (Primary, and secondary) there is nothing at all between the airfield and the AO, so that when you fly by a settlement, the settlement will temporarily be populated with soldiers, that will vanish again when you leave. This makes just flying back and forth from AO to base very tricky, which justifies using ground transport, which on most servers I play on, is relatively unused. To make things more Interesting, you can make these areas trigger side missions that can give rewards, or even apply a system where you have to clear the area to move on to the next. These types of things were used to superb effect in Arma 2, and made the game more interesting when you were driving along and suddenly you are ambushed by a squad or two of soldiers that you didn't know about.

 

I know a system such as this that integrates even one or two of these Ideas would probably be extremely difficult to integrate into INVADE & ANNEX, but it would definitely be very cool. I don't know if rarek still makes INVADE & ANNEX,  but if you still do, it would be pretty cool to see it. The tools are there but since I can't do it, it's your decision

[technerd89]

While your idea to spawn some random patrols outside of the designated AO area is a sound one, the over-all idea will be limited by a few known issues.

 

First, AI units do not innately understand what a building is and how to occupy it, use corners for cover, check doors, etc. Even if they were to spawn inside one, chances are they would disregard its tactical value and enter search-and-destroy mode, spreading out into the local area. Either that, or they would have a pathing error and simply stand still with their barrel pointed into a corner, making it very easy to sweep the building and eliminate them.

 

Second, I&A on the whole uses a spawning system for both enemy units and placed stuctures/objectives (side missions) that cannot and likely never will understand the difference between a building and any other location of terrain. To the best of my understanding, it functions like so:

 

1)Within designated area (AO circle), pick random location -> 2)Check attributes of location (is it underwater? is it flat enough for a building? is it nothing but trees and rocks?) -> 3) If area is suitable, spawn specified objects and NPCs, if area unsuitable, return to step 1 with new random location, rinse repeat.

 

With this in mind, while it would be possible to spawn random squads around the map, it would be next to impossible to have them spawn inside random buildings between you and the AO, that would be like trying to take a blind-folded swan dive into your shot glass.

 

The best that could be done, in theory, would be to designate specific coordinates to tag along side each individual AO that spawn AI units in specific buildings near each AO. Problem with that is that each AO would have its own list of buildings to pick, they would all have to be EXACT locations, and they would be the same each time you ran that AO, becoming extremely predictable.

[AridApple]

While your idea to spawn some random patrols outside of the designated AO area is a sound one, the over-all idea will be limited by a few known issues.

 

First, AI units do not innately understand what a building is and how to occupy it, use corners for cover, check doors, etc. Even if they were to spawn inside one, chances are they would disregard its tactical value and enter search-and-destroy mode, spreading out into the local area. Either that, or they would have a pathing error and simply stand still with their barrel pointed into a corner, making it very easy to sweep the building and eliminate them.

 

Second, I&A on the whole uses a spawning system for both enemy units and placed stuctures/objectives (side missions) that cannot and likely never will understand the difference between a building and any other location of terrain. To the best of my understanding, it functions like so:

 

 

With this in mind, while it would be possible to spawn random squads around the map, it would be next to impossible to have them spawn inside random buildings between you and the AO, that would be like trying to take a blind-folded swan dive into your shot glass.

 

The best that could be done, in theory, would be to designate specific coordinates to tag along side each individual AO that spawn AI units in specific buildings near each AO. Problem with that is that each AO would have its own list of buildings to pick, they would all have to be EXACT locations, and they would be the same each time you ran that AO, becoming extremely predictable.

Although I know relatively little on the actual inner workings of the I&A game mode, this function is something I use all the time to rapidly generate a new mission to simply hunt down enemies for fun. But... as a matter of fact, in all of my testing, there are only a handful of bugged buildings that show the characteristics you describe, and not just that, but the enemies will use their building and not wander off. They will simply act as if they were placed normally in the open, only they will not leave that building. As well, this module also generates random 2+ man patrols that will roam the modules area to find and destroy enemies as if they had movement pre-planned, as well as if one portion of the modules units are attacked, the patrol will come to help if it is nearby. the AI will only populate in areas that they can shoot from, only at windows, and on rooftops. The only legitimate bug is that sometimes if an enemy is facing the wrong way, they will never notice you until you come close.

 

And to add functionality, you can choose from 5 or 6 different types of group generation patterns to decide what units will be selected, this affects unit density, skill, armor, equipment, etc. this is a complete package that requires no scripting and only a trigger to generate the opfor, and then a trigger to make it show that there are enemies. this is mainly to spawn AA and AT to make the game more interesting and can be set up to not activate 100% of the time

[technerd89]

Well...its not every day that someone successfully calls me on my bullshit. Good thing I have a disclaimer in my signature...

[AridApple]

Well...its not every day that someone successfully calls me on my bullshit. Good thing I have a disclaimer in my signature...

Well to say the least, it's pretty decent of you to admit you were wrong. I have seen threads in other forums where one person had assumed something wrong, and is then so proud the argument goes on for pages... (exaggeration, but pretty accurate) and wastes a thread. Nice to see a good sport.

 

EDIT: I made a mistake about the modules name, it falls under the sites category with each sub-module representing a faction. as well as that the AI will only populate building of the same type (op-for, blu-for & ind-for will populate military buildings, civilians will - not sure exactly, never tried it, if I can figure it out I will post an edit)

[Rockfrog]

Everything depends on how and if something can be implemented or not, however... I will agree, it would be nice to see this kind of functionality.

 

As I&A players, I think we are conditioned to not worry about the enemy until we get near the edge of the AO circle.  That's actually not realistic, and we should be (forced) to be on our toes a little more on our way to the AO, and certainly around the outside of the AO.  Landing just outside the actual AO, is usually quite safe, and again... it shouldn't be so.

 

Also, and I don't know how this would link in, we could do with some random AI spawning inside the AO during the mission, or patrolling into the AO, or at least patrolling around 'significantly' within the AO.  The AI is just a bit too static and predictable, at times.

 

Whilst on that subject, and I appreciate server load and hence lag might be an issue here, how about spawning non-combatants, or neutrals, or even non-participating friendlies within the AO.  Add a required element of SA to charging into an AO and just shooting at anything without a green tag on it.

 

You could add a friendly fire, or non-combatant kill tally to the score board, or strike off enemy kills for each friendly or non-combatant killed.

 

Sorry if I've taken this off thread.

[Bruce]

I'd just like to add my vote to RockFrog's point above

 

bearing in mind the current state of the game (MP)  in that any additional AI adds more lag and less frames ?

 

I'm ALL for a more realistic experience with civilians and women and patrolling AI soldiers that aren't confined to just the AO

 

BUT .. right now,  that can't be at the expense of performance..  my rig is already groaning at 20 frames MAX  

[Rockfrog]

Agree BTW, hence my first sentence.  Adding this shouldn't be at the expense of acceptable framerate loss, otherwise just bin it off.

[Bruce]

I'd love to know how ALiVE mod handles it differently,  if at all ?

 

they have a fully populated map of uber AI soldiers that infiltrate and investigate buildings etc.

[AridApple]

Everything depends on how and if something can be implemented or not, however... I will agree, it would be nice to see this kind of functionality.

 

As I&A players, I think we are conditioned to not worry about the enemy until we get near the edge of the AO circle.  That's actually not realistic, and we should be (forced) to be on our toes a little more on our way to the AO, and certainly around the outside of the AO.  Landing just outside the actual AO, is usually quite safe, and again... it shouldn't be so.

 

Also, and I don't know how this would link in, we could do with some random AI spawning inside the AO during the mission, or patrolling into the AO, or at least patrolling around 'significantly' within the AO.  The AI is just a bit too static and predictable, at times.

 

Whilst on that subject, and I appreciate server load and hence lag might be an issue here, how about spawning non-combatants, or neutrals, or even non-participating friendlies within the AO.  Add a required element of SA to charging into an AO and just shooting at anything without a green tag on it.

 

You could add a friendly fire, or non-combatant kill tally to the score board, or strike off enemy kills for each friendly or non-combatant killed.

 

Sorry if I've taken this off thread.

no big deal, but as I may have stated above, it is actually quite easy to set up a trigger system that only populates an area when there is an allied presence. no unit placement is required and patrols are auto generated. you could even make it so that once there are no longer players within the trigger area the AI will vanish. plus to Add game-play, this module actually integrates some sort of fast travel(not sure how it is set up...) but has the potential to provide FOB all over the map, that can be fast traveled to, to provide a shorter ground trip so that people will use APCs and Hunters again, they haven't  been used since Stratis.

 

edit: Something I forgot to mention in my main piece is the possibility of making each town linked to the spawning of specific vehicles at the town, and after taking a town the vehicle will spawn and then after a pre-set time has elapsed, the town will revert to enemy control, this way you can always have side missions that both benefit the team as well as provides game play other than the main AO, these towns will be much less densely populated but could be equipped with higher level soldiers and AAA (Anti-Air-Armor) or as an alternative, these areas can have a blufor vehicle depot consisting of 3-4 vehicles that can be fast traveled to, each town can have a different preset, and the helicopters spawned can be used by anyone, so that if you are short on helis, you can head out and get some more! plus, the added benefit of fast travel can make having areas far away from the airstrip can help shorten reinforcement time and promote convoys to AO instead of just using heli transport.

[Jager]

I recall insurgency (for a2) had a 400m spawn radius for units, units would spawn inside buildings and then spread out on patrol.

If a helicopter flew by they would fire manpads towards us, should be possible in a3 as well.