Serbian Faction (Poll)

[Johnson]

So I've made a post before about the possible introduction to a Serbian faction, but at the time the forums were much less busy and it went unnoticed.

 

This time, I hope to get some peoples thoughts and ideas over how they would feel for a new faction to fight with and against - Serbian Armed Forces.

 

RHS adds their own pack called SAF that we use already but not in its full extent, all we would have to do is whitelist gear for the new faction.

 

 

 

Here is a few pieces (less than half) of equipment that strong-Serbia uses that we have in RHS already:

 

Weapons

- M21

- M70

- G36

- M4

- SCAR-L

- Skorpion

- SVD

- Barrett .50 cal

- FN Minimi

- AUG

- AK-101 (closets in RHS is AK-105)

 

Vehicles

- Humvee

- BTR-60

- BRDM

- T-72

 

 

 

If you wish to see for yourself, go through the arsenal or just google Serbian Army and embrace the genocid-... I mean... "the suck".

 

Serbia is just an incredible faction allowing such a huge mix of old, new, western, eastern equipment and vehicles. What do you guys think?

[Minipily]

It'd certainly provide a sense of playstyle and overall freedom of choice that not a single other faction has available all at once.

 

Of course there are some issues that people will want to address:

1. Confusion - People will be hearing both 5.56 calibre shots from M4's and 7.62 calibre shots from Kalashnikov weaponry to mention a couple, weapons that have very distinct sounds and are an easy way to identify friend or foe with any other faction.
2. Teamkilling - This is of course an issue, but I wouldn't label it as a huge issue because I feel that people that play AWE for a little while will know better. Sure, accidents do happen, however I feel that the average player knows to PID their targets before firing blindly. In the end, I doubt that teamkilling incidents will be as bad as people list it out to be when Serbian Armed Forces is mentioned.
3. Further Confusion - Apart from the weapons, the vehicles used by the SAF are a mixture of Western designs and Soviet Era and Russian machinery. Because of this, people may face confusion when seeing these vehicles used together and may experience issues understanding friend from foe.

I mention these points because I want to keep my post unbiased, I do clearly understand the issues behind implementing this faction. However, I strongly feel that the average AWE player is smart enough to overlook these issues and carry out their tasks effectively. After all, "confusion" warrants more communication, and with more communication comes better gameplay and camaraderie with players on AWE.

 

Overall, I find that adding the Serbian Armed Forces will give us an incredibly large amount of freedom of choice as well as a sense of gameplay we don't even really experience when playing as an "Opfor" faction. Again, I can understand its faults and issues, but again I know that the average player should not make a huge fuss about this and will know better than to allow confusion disallow them from experiencing a completely new experience on AhoyWorld Enhanced.

 

Looking forward to hearing other peoples pointers, again, criticisms can be good but please try to keep them factual and unbiased rather than heavily opinionated and selfish. 

[Johnson]

On the topic of PID and friendly-fire, we do fight Nationalists and Chedakis already when we play Russians - they wear similar cloths and blue-on-blue is rare enough to not be a huge problem.

 

Serbian gear is much more unique than most RHS equipment. If we were to fight any US Military force, PID would not be a problem.

 

 

 

Heres some modern Seriban equipment to demonstrate. This gear is fairly new and based around 2012 - with SAF you can go all the way to 2018.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[HybridRage]

The Serbian faction uses a good mix of gear from both the western and the eastern design which currently no other available faction offer. It gives us players a wider range of gear to choose from while still staying a unified army.

 

[DakimDragco]

The uniforms seem distinctive enought to avoid FF if we are opposing NATO/USA, though facing Russian forces might get some confusion at longer ranges due to the uniforms dominant green tint and helmets. That said, i do think it might add some interesting gameplay for bothe opfor and other mission setups.

 

I would say why not try its out with a mission and see what the reaction is ingame by the players, maybe create it for a gamenight like a friday stilleto night. That way you can gauge the servers opinion on the faction and how much they like/dislike the faction as both playable and opponent.

[Johnson]

It would be good if the people who voted "No" explained  why they think so

[Ryko]

If you poll for stuff like this, you can't ask voters to explain their choices either way. 

[hobnob11]

One possible reason I can think of, we already have issues with team killing when we play opfor, and having humvees and m4's alongside btr's and ak's is not going to help.

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, Ryko said:

If you poll for stuff like this, you can't ask voters to explain their choices either way. 

Why can I not? I'm simply asking for anyone's say in the matter so the argument isn't so one sided, for the sake of discussion and conversation, I didn't know that was such a problem or should be so actively avoided. I'm not forcing people to discuss.

 

16 minutes ago, hobnob11 said:

One possible reason I can think of, we already have issues with team killing when we play opfor, and having humvees and m4's alongside btr's and ak's is not going to help.

As I said in my first comment, it's a fair point, but when we play as Russians against Chedaki the vehicles, weapons and clothing is near identical; yet teamkilling is not a huge issue. With Serbia, the gear is less similar, so it should supposedly be even less of an issue.

[Johnson]

"Don't care" option added, my condolences to anyone who felt like they were forced to answer through lacking a middle-ground.

[Adshield]

28 minutes ago, hobnob11 said:

One possible reason I can think of, we already have issues with team killing when we play opfor, and having humvees and m4's alongside btr's and ak's is not going to help.

it just means players will have to concentrate and properly validate targets before engaging. if orders are followed and groups stay in communication with each other, then everybody should know where each other is, and should only engage the enemies. its like finding a difference between a civilian Ural driving past or an insurgent Ural as they may both be in civilian colours, you just have to look at who it in it or ask others if they know. if we can manage playing as Russia vs Chechnya Chedaki in a jammer mission, then we can manage it with Serbian armed forces.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Adshield
*jammer not hammer*

[Minipily]

Not really sure why Don't Care needs to be an option. If someone is just going to click on a Poll purely to post "Don't Care" then wander off just baffles me, why even vote in the first place?

[Minipily]

9 minutes ago, J0hnson said:

As I said in my first comment, it's a fair point, but when we play as Russians against Chedaki the vehicles, weapons and clothing is near identical; yet teamkilling is not a huge issue. With Serbia, the gear is less similar, so it should supposedly be even less of an issue.

 

[Ryko]

I should have said "force" instead of "ask".  I guess my point was that you're treading on ground that we as staff see all the time, you can have what you see as a perfectly reasonable change to the rules / modset / game mode and not get consistent or rational feedback from the user base.  You have to expect that some people are just going to disagree with you without elaborating on why.  It's the exact same reason that people don't like playing as a Russian faction and will go play something else instead, despite the mission having made allowances to make Eastern play more West-like (by adding Picatinny-style AK's, for example, which mount Western optics).

 

I would suspect that the main reason a SAF faction would be unpopular would be simply that it's not a conventional Western style faction, which the majority of the user base seems to enjoy playing the most.

 

As I've stated in another thread, I'm on hold for further development of Stiletto, and limiting my time on this mission to game-breaking updates. That said, if you want to build your own SAF faction, structurally it wouldn't be that hard; however the arsenal as coded right now envisions a pretty strict delineation between east and west factions, and a SAF faction would fly in the face of that.  If you look at the Spetsnatz faction (1043.sqf) you can see how there's a custom addition of weaponry that adds the NPZ weapons, and that'd be the way to get around that.

 

- R

[Stanhope]

I voted no because:

1: there are 2 BLUFOR looking guns in SAF and 1 blufor vehicle.  Apart from that it's basically AK-like weapons and green camo.  Both of which we already have in multiple russian factions for both AI and player.

2: I don't enjoy playing russians as much as I enjoy playing any of the blufor factions.  There are a multitude of reasons, most are personal.  I feel like it's going to be the same for this faction as it's very similar to russians.

3: Teamkilling will happen.  The last time I saw (accidental) teamkilling happen when we played blufor is ages ago.  Last time I saw it happen when we were opfor is this week on multiple occasions to multiple people by multiple people.  Again, I have a feeling this is gonna be the same for SAF as it's a russian like faction.

 

Just my 2 cents

If everyone really wants this and staff signs off on it I'm willing to make the AI faction for this.  I'm not able to make the player version in the near future because it's more work and I should be studying for my exams.  

[Zeexe]

Sorry for being irrelevant but, have you guys thought of going back into time more. Like World War I or II ??

 

there is Loads of mods for them

[Minipily]

1 hour ago, Zeexe said:

Sorry for being irrelevant but, have you guys thought of going back into time more. Like World War I or II ??

 

there is Loads of mods for them

I believe we went over this a long time ago. The main issues is that the way Patrol Ops/Gauntlet/Stiletto works doesn't quite work for an old environment like that. I mean, I personally could see it working in some ways, but for the average player it may become a strong learning curve that they may not even want to go through.

 

Regardless, if you wanted to make some form of gamenight for something like this, I'm sure it could be hosted somewhere, Christiansen may be able to host it for you.

[Johnson]

Thanks for your reply, sincerely. I'm glad you made your points clear and I can actually agree with them, but I have some brief insight.

 

4 hours ago, Stanhope said:

1: there are 2 BLUFOR looking guns in SAF and 1 blufor vehicle.  Apart from that it's basically AK-like weapons and green camo.  Both of which we already have in multiple russian factions for both AI and player.

If SAF became a player faction 2/3rds the arsenal would consist of Western-Bloc style gear (M4, HK416, SCAR-L, MP5, Minimi, G36, M21 etc etc), the little that remains would be Eastern variations. Serbia themselves are attempting to step away from Eastern designed and attempt to reform closer pacts and coalitions with NATO. This goes the same for the uniforms/equipment as well as the vehicles. Keep in mind that a SAF faction would not consist only of RHSSAF equipment, but also combinations of RHSUSAF, RHSAFRF and RHSGREF - that's what makes it so good in my opinion.

 

As for the vehicles, yes I agree there are more Russian than American, however certain vanilla vehicles closely resemble that which Serbia uses today that could also be implimented. Overall, I would say it would be about 60/40 with Eastern and Western vehicles.

 

4 hours ago, Stanhope said:

2: I don't enjoy playing russians as much as I enjoy playing any of the blufor factions.  There are a multitude of reasons, most are personal.  I feel like it's going to be the same for this faction as it's very similar to russians.

I can't argue against your personal preference regarding faction, however you should defiantly know that Serbia's equipment is certainly closer to NATO than to Russia, especially since the millennium. RHS is set in 2012 so they defiantly demonstrate some cool modern Serbian equipment in SAF, you should definalty check it out.

 

Seriously, in my mind, Serbia is way closer to a new "BLUFOR" faction than "OPFOR", but really they are just a completely

all together, after all, that is the basis of their main goal in the world.

 

4 hours ago, Stanhope said:

3: Teamkilling will happen.  The last time I saw (accidental) teamkilling happen when we played blufor is ages ago.  Last time I saw it happen when we were opfor is this week on multiple occasions to multiple people by multiple people.  Again, I have a feeling this is gonna be the same for SAF as it's a russian like faction.

Teamkilling will always happen, but again, as I've said, it can only happen less than how much it has already happened on Russians vs. Chz. Insurgents as they are the two most similar factions on Stiletto - and even then, Teamkilling wasn't too common at all.

 

4 hours ago, Stanhope said:

If everyone really wants this and staff signs off on it I'm willing to make the AI faction for this.  I'm not able to make the player version in the near future because it's more work and I should be studying for my exams.  

Luckily for me, I just finished my uni exams and have so much free time. I would gladly make the player faction myself, in fact I was looking forward to doing so. But I can't do it alone since I have no understanding of where to start all my understandings of Serbian gear in Stiletto, this is the main drawback.

 

 

 

 

 

In my mind, playing as Serbian Armed Forces would take the best of both words (East and West) and combine them into a pretty unique and interesting standalone setup, it's a big part of RHS that we are missing out on. Either way, surly it's worth a try to see how everyone likes it.

 

It's really not all that different that what we already have, but it will give people a chance to try out new equipment and an excuse to combine new gear, all whilst playing as one combined faction.