Correction in the server rules

[Kacper]

Hello. Imagine situation like this: Someone (or his team) did a side mission. This person(s) in example respawns because he wants to take his reward. But someone takes it because he spotted this reward, took a quad and in 0.23546 sec just stole it. Ofc these person(s) who played side mission doesn't allow to take his reward. They are trying to talk but "Rewards zone camper" screams like this: OOH stop crying I took it first and now get out. And for now he is right because there are no rule like... "protecting rewards for person(s) who did side mission/zeus op etc".

 

I know that isn't easy topic, and in situations like this "reward owner" REALLY have to prove his rights. Staff member should evaluate the situation very carefully.

 

For now I'm inviting you to a discussion. It's not easy to express situations like this in 1 paragraph / correction in existing paragraph.

I understand that is a COOP mode where all shared content are free to take, but its not fair when "Rewards campers / stealers" 

(without CLEAR statement from "Reward owner(s)") just taking a vehicle.

[Stanhope]

I used to do the following when I was on the server in zeus:
If a special reward that many people like spawns and I knew who was at the side mission I'd move the reward away from the reward zone to somewhere it can't immediately be found.  If someone from the side mission came looking for it I'd give it to them.  If nobody came looking I'd put it back at the rewards area.  If I didn't know who played the mission or wasn't zeusing I'd say, sorry first come first serve.  

As far as I know the rule 'first come first serve' is there because it is, in the current system, near impossible to know who has actually done the mission and thus 'deserves' the reward.  Unless of course the moderator/spartan is in zeus and keeping an eye out for such a thing.  If the moderator/spartan was doing a zeus mission he wouldn't know and would have to drop everything to resolve the conflict of who 'deserves' the reward.  Same if he was playing.  It's even worse when there is no spartan or moderator on the server and a moderator is trying to figure this out through the remote moderating tool.  He can't see who played the mission because he isn't even on the server.  And it's the worst when there's no spartan nor moderator around whatsoever. 

 

A system is being worked on where the people who actually did the mission receive a reward for doing the mission.  But I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say about that

[Kacper]

What do you think about this script: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=33195 ?

Is it hard to modify it like: if person did required action to complete the side mission - vehicle is locked for other players (only owner can unlock). 

[Stanhope]

What if you and your squad spent half an hour clearing the side mission anf suddenly someone in a prowler shows up, drives to the obj and completes it?

[GamerbugUK]

10+ people go to a side mission, all are involved in the success, there is a group of 3, a group of 2, and 5 individual guys.

 

Who gets the reward?

 

Heck you could spawn the reward 20ft away from the side misison, but that tank or attack chopper (for example) can only hold so many, who gets it?

 

This is why it doesn't work. you just can't police this on a public server, as you can have the argument at a side mission team level, let alone a server level.

[Kacper]

7 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

What if you and your squad spent half an hour clearing the side mission anf suddenly someone in a prowler shows up, drives to the obj and completes it?

I don't know tbh, maybe i want too much but there are too much limitations. Staff member can talk with them and unlock vehicle eventually, but without evidence (SS, video) its impossible to solve  

 

[Valkyyr]

5 minutes ago, GamerbugUK said:

10+ people go to a side mission, all are involved in the success, there is a group of 3, a group of 2, and 5 individual guys.

I think Gamerbug has made the most appropriate response. This just isnt something that can be justified for every mission created by a specific rule. Play it by ear and just be reasonable with the rewards given really, sympathise if they contributed and feel they got nothing but you cant please everyone.

[Amentes]

Not a solution, but maybe an improvement:

 

Spawn all Side Rewards locked, unlock after three minutes.

 

Should provide enough time for someone to respawn and stake their claim, while not leaving the vehicle unusable if nobody has a claim.

[Kacper]

18 minutes ago, Amentes said:

Not a solution, but maybe an improvement:

 

Spawn all Side Rewards locked, unlock after three minutes.

 

Should provide enough time for someone to respawn and stake their claim, while not leaving the vehicle unusable if nobody has a claim.

I like that improvement

[ansin11]

Spawn them three minutes later lol

[Mark T]

Gamerbug pretty much summed it up, As Stan mentioned there is something being worked on but not much details can be shared yet.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

If a special reward that many people like spawns and I knew who was at the side mission I'd move the reward away from the reward zone to somewhere it can't immediately be found.  If someone from the side mission came looking for it I'd give it to them.  If nobody came looking I'd put it back at the rewards area.

This is down to Admin discretion, Not something I want to see a Spartan doing.

 

34 minutes ago, Amentes said:

Not a solution, but maybe an improvement:

 

Spawn all Side Rewards locked, unlock after three minutes.

 

Should provide enough time for someone to respawn and stake their claim, while not leaving the vehicle unusable if nobody has a claim.

5 seconds left

 

 

[Amentes]

It won't stop someone "stealing" the asset, but it does provide a little time in which to stand next to the guy, making your case in Direct.

 

Be surprised how reasonable people can be if they're communicating with a voice rather than a text.

[Kacper]

1 hour ago, Amentes said:

It won't stop someone "stealing" the asset, but it does provide a little time in which to stand next to the guy, making your case in Direct.

 

Be surprised how reasonable people can be if they're communicating with a voice rather than a text.

Yeah, teamwork is a key. You can always join these "stealers" if they are kind  It won't work everytime because mostly they are toxic...

Suddenly i can't zap them xD

[TheScar]

*looks*

...

...

*walks away mumbling curse words*

[ansin11]

What the hell man, keep it family friendly!

[TheScar]

Well,i really wanted to not voice my opinion here,but i just cant :

 

17 hours ago, GamerbugUK said:

This is why it doesn't work. you just can't police this on a public server, as you can have the argument at a side mission team level, let alone a server level.

Propably the first time i totally disagree with your statement here - altho it s a pretty rare occasion your situation turns up as mostly the guys that done the job worked as a team to a certain degree so they sure can figure who of em will use the given asset.

For the generel "stealing" or "reward area camping" i expect comon sense and a minimum degree for morality from a admin/ZEUS/AW associate and judge/handle the issue that way.Reward the effort people took to complete the mission and dont pull the cheap exit via the "first come,first serve" thing.

I m not new to this problem,it s existing since Evolution on ArmA 1 and carried on via Domination or any similar mission that offers great stuff for no work effort.

But,i recall kind of a few admins in my times (even on AW) that did the right thing by default and either locked rewards or exit´d people off em to guarantee people that worked got their benefit.

Simple,fair,instant.

No need for that fancy "new reward" script you ve been talking about kind a few times and since quite a few months ... nothing changed.

You can read up more on my topic that got locked,too.

 

Spare the work effort and just apply comon sense.

Thats what i expect from a admin.

[GamerbugUK]

4 hours ago, TheScar said:

Well,i really wanted to not voice my opinion here,but i just cant :

 

Propably the first time i totally disagree with your statement here - altho it s a pretty rare occasion your situation turns up as mostly the guys that done the job worked as a team to a certain degree so they sure can figure who of em will use the given asset.

For the generel "stealing" or "reward area camping" i expect comon sense and a minimum degree for morality from a admin/ZEUS/AW associate and judge/handle the issue that way.Reward the effort people took to complete the mission and dont pull the cheap exit via the "first come,first serve" thing.

I m not new to this problem,it s existing since Evolution on ArmA 1 and carried on via Domination or any similar mission that offers great stuff for no work effort.

But,i recall kind of a few admins in my times (even on AW) that did the right thing by default and either locked rewards or exit´d people off em to guarantee people that worked got their benefit.

Simple,fair,instant.

No need for that fancy "new reward" script you ve been talking about kind a few times and since quite a few months ... nothing changed.

You can read up more on my topic that got locked,too.

 

Spare the work effort and just apply comon sense.

Thats what i expect from a admin.

In my defence I'm always the third wheel in side missions, so it happens a lot for me, in your defence I never care about the rewards .

 

So I do somewhat agree that normally the few randoms not teamed up just head to a side "because" and probably care less about it then the squads. I also agree common sense, some decency and politeness, along with some admin back up would suffice rather than a script.

[Amentes]

So if someone wants a shot at a Side reward, they should wait in base for a Side mission so they're sure they won't be busy in AO when it pops up?

 

When that starts happening, how do we proceed from there?

 

If you're doing Side because you expect dibs on the reward, I can't say that sits well with me.

 

Do it because you want the fun of doing the mission, not because you want the fun of the potential reward.

[TheScar]

I´m not about the rewards,but who shall stop me when i did the mission,it rewards a KUMA and some random guy just snaps it simply because he could.

On a side note,ever since the relase of the tank DLC i still havnt had my hands on a Nagara or Nyx - and when i get the chance ... just read above.

Instant.

You could also argue that there should be a rule for a maximum flighttime of a pilot for the Wipeout.

Or add a minute blackscreen for everyone that presses the respawn key.

 

You see,there s a few options for improvement.

The abolsut simplest one would be the admin to act up like a admin and just solve the issue at hand by making a desicion by his gut feeling and common sense.

You dont have to construct all those very,very rare examples to justify the making of a reward script that will only complicate the issue.

I already gave up on this issue quite some time ago,again i point you at my previous made topics about that issue and my point to it.

No need for sematics.

In short,i was raising attention to a easy fix with barely any more work effort involved than solution no2.

Taaaaadaaaa!

 

[Mark T]

5 minutes ago, TheScar said:

The abolsut simplest one would be the admin to act up like a admin and just solve the issue at hand by making a desicion by his gut feeling and common sense.

In this instance there wasn't an admin online, how do we proceed then? you could complete 3 side mission in under an hour not many admins may be present to witness that either, what do we do then?

I will not task our admins to monitor who does and does not partake in side missions just to find out who is eligible for the rewards, Its just not feasible.

After all we are there to enjoy ourselves as well. I understand the frustration that things might not go your way but remember, we are not here to detriment peoples experience, it is in fact quite the opposite.

So rather than bemoan about our admins, why not try to come up with a proper solution like other people here have, not just "gut feeling and common sense"

Might I suggest we remove the rewards altogether and just concentrate on FOB assets?

 

 

 

 

[Lindi]

At the moment I see the rewards causing a lot of grief when someone camps the reward.

 

Problems also arise when a reward vehicle is lost, some player have a tendency to instantly blame an admin / zeus, because naturally mere AI could not kill such a skilled player!

Amentes is right, we had an instance of a squad camping base until side mission the other day. Which I could have lived with but the squad had a dedicated CAS pilot. That just sat at base in the Orca and later in the rewarded Blackfish gunship untill the next side mission spawned. This went on for a long time despite me repeatedly explaining the importance of providing transport services for the team in the mean time.

I also agree that laying it all on an admin to take care off with our common sense isn't possible or even fair to the admins. I mean even with the Zeus interface you cannot keep an eye on everyone all of the time.

The only down side to removing these rewards is the loss of variety and fun in operating something that is a little uncommon. At the present tho the pros of removing the rewards out weight the cons quite a lot in my mind.

[Stanhope]

8 hours ago, Lindi said:

The only down side to removing these rewards is the loss of variety and fun in operating something that is a little uncommon. At the present tho the pros of removing the rewards out weight the cons quite a lot in my mind.

This could be partially counteracted by making FOB vehicles randomized to a certain extend.  I'm not talking about completely random but an expansion of the current system for the CAS heli at Marathon and the CAS jet at last stand.  The heli can right now be a blackfoot or a kajman (60/40) and the jet can be a CAS black wasp or a wipeout (can't remember the chances).  This could be done for the MBT as well.  Randomizing which MBT spawns and if whether or not it's an enhanced one.  Similar for other vehicles if needed.  Altho some vehicles, like a transport helo and hunters should probably not be randomized.

 

This will of course lead to people camping out those respawns.

[GamerbugUK]

On 5/13/2018 at 12:03 AM, Lindi said:

Amentes is right, we had an instance of a squad camping base until side mission the other day. Which I could have lived with but the squad had a dedicated CAS pilot. That just sat at base in the Orca and later in the rewarded Blackfish gunship untill the next side mission spawned. This went on for a long time despite me repeatedly explaining the importance of providing transport services for the team in the mean time.

Isn't that sort of against the rules for a pilot to just sit at base?

 

I don't think there is a real solution for the side reward thing, it's been discussed to death many times.

[Lindi]

3 hours ago, GamerbugUK said:

Isn't that sort of against the rules for a pilot to just sit at base?

 

I don't think there is a real solution for the side reward thing, it's been discussed to death many times.

Yes it is, the player was ignoring hes role. In my view transporting people to the action is the most important thing on a pilots todo-list. 

[Derp]

To reply on one of the first comments. I'd say we spawn that reward on the Side mission itself. It prevents people from wanting to rush right into the Side Mission. Meaning you will have to clear out the AT guys. And well if that vehicle holds wheels you gotta make sure every guy with a GL is dead. That way there's more time for an admin to check up on who is doing the Side and espicially you will have a overview on who's doing the side mission.