Mod-set Discussion (Poll)

[Stanhope]

19 minutes ago, J0hnson said:

I don't know what RHS weapons you use, but the M4/M4A1 have a longer barrel than the SCAR-L we have in the modpack, not even considering the classic M16A4 20 inch monster.

 

I think the ACE Arsenal provides muzzel velocities now anyway, perhaps we should reference that.

According to the ACE rangecard:
SCAR-L: 29 inches. 

M16A4 20 inch monstor: 20 inches (duh)

mk-18: 10.5 inches

 

According to the arsenal:
M16A4 20 inch monstor: 20 inches (duh)

mk-18: 10.3 inches

SCAR-L: 0 inches. 

 

If you're wondering why: ACE doesn't know and is taking a guess for the scar.  A compatibility patch for SMA will fix this.  
(FYI: with the patch for RHS we'd be having the same issue with it)

[Johnson]

13 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

ACE doesn't know and is taking a guess for the scar

Is it taking a guess based on the accuracy of the gun? Because according to the ACE Arsenal, the SCAR-L has FOUR TIMES more accuracy than the RHS M4, even though they fire the same round and have the same barrel length.

 

To me, that doesn't look like RHS is under-powered, but SMA is overpowered.

 

And what version of SMA are we using? Because if I'm not mistaken the Armaholic one hasn't been updated for over two years and the steam one is almost the same.

[Stanhope]

Normally barrel lenght is defined by a line in the config file. For vanilla rifles this line gets added by ACE.  For all other mods you either need to download a compatibility path or the mod maker must have added it.  For rhs we have a patch.  

What exactly ACE uses if it doesnt find that specific line in the config file, idk.  I highly doubt it's the accuracy,  maybe the guns dimensions?

[Adshield]

As the origin of EU3 is 'Public Modded' there should inherently be mods, my perception of this is having most things being modded, as having just TFAR is reproducible by playing EU1 and using TS and direct voice chat. Since Arma is a military simulator I prefer to have what I use to match the faction or army we play as, therefore I like it when everybody is using the correct equipment, with some light variations of course (this is another reason why I like playing as the Russians on Eu3 as people tend to use matching RHS equipment with the only exceptions being those who use the re-textured MNP gear).

As for the mods we have and my view on them, I believe that there are multiple mods that we can ditch from the repo for various reasons.

I know that some share this opinion and others don't, however since many different people play EU3 a middle ground has to be found, this is me presenting my views on the mods.

My remove list:

most if not all have already been discussed however i want to show my view on each.

DAR_HMMWV

• I personally dislike this mod due to the general bad quality of the vehicles it adds. major gripes include the apparent sub Arma2OA quality.
• previously we had another hmmwv mod which offered a better direct A2OA ports which looked ok, however I don't see a reason for not using the RHS versions as they control better, have better functionality [ie. shoot from windows etc], look better [higher quality models, textures and functional mirrors] and have a better overall polish [much more effort put into the vehicle].

Killochs_MNP

• As I have said I prefer when everybody uses the same, realistic equipment. MNP doesn't offer this, as it is bad re textures of vanilla equipment. with instances of Russian uniforms and Rigs being re textured Nato equipment increasing the chances of Teamkilling and is completely not realistic.
• camouflages are desperately wrong in some occasions with M81 being very dark for example.
• re textured onto vanilla gear which is often Nato.^^ one instance of this is while playing Russian EMR vs US marines [desert Marpat , Stan using the re textured Nato gear in desert EMR getting on the gunner seat of a US MRAP. From longer range you cant tell if the person is allied or not due to the almost matching camo meaning A1 and ASL Marksman nearly engaged.
• roughly 5 of the camos are used so the full list isn't required.

Kunduz

• As others have said its too small and broken

SMA

• to beat the dead horse, the only weapon worth keeping is the SCAR and it is already broken. The SMA weapons are also lower quality than RHS with lower quality models and textures that is a fact [my opinion is that the weapons look bad as a they are too new and clean, it looks like an airsoft gun in the display case of a shop.

Middle Eastern Factions

• Its not really needed, mini already said it

LAV-25

• In the battle between an LAV and a Bush the bush wins

L_Mount

• it is a nice mod that is good for those who use multiple optics, however it is buggy and gets in the way sometimes.

My possible add list:

CUP terrains

• it adds many varied maps that many players miss e.g Chernarus.

CUP full

• we could replace all of the need for mods such as PLA and MiddleEasternFactions, as it adds most things from previous arma games. I dont suggest removing RHS as it is such as high quality mod. I suggest doing similar to the AW 124th and use the RHS for the majority of equipment and have CUP for things RHS doesn't add such as the T-55 or Frigates.
• yes there are many things that RHS and CUP both have however RHS does them to a higher standard.
• CUP is higher quantity, while RHS is higher quality.

just my £0.015

[Stanhope]

35 minutes ago, Adshield said:

L_Mount

• it is a nice mod that is good for those who use multiple optics, however it is buggy and gets in the way sometimes.

Isn't it the point of the mod to get in the way?  I've not seen it be buggy except for filling up your inventory with muzzle breaks when scrolling through the list of AKs.  There's actually an easy fix for that: don't do that, pick a gun and stick with it.

 

36 minutes ago, Adshield said:

Middle Eastern Factions

• Its not really needed, mini already said it

2 out of 8 enemy factions use units from this mod.  If syndicat were to be added only 2 out of 9.  

 

38 minutes ago, Adshield said:

SMA

• to beat the dead horse, the only weapon worth keeping is the SCAR and it is already broken. The SMA weapons are also lower quality than RHS with lower quality models and textures that is a fact [my opinion is that the weapons look bad as a they are too new and clean, it looks like an airsoft gun in the display case of a shop.

If you mean that because of the lack of compatibility patch for ACE, which every single mod needs (technically only mods that add infantry weapons but you get my point), it expectedly shows unexpected behaviour than I hardly call that broken.  But you'll be happy to hear that I submitted a mod request for a patch that'll make SMA compatible with ACE.
 

By the way, you are willing to add CUP (full) which will bring a lot of doubles which are of a lower quality as you yourself said.  This just to get some of the additional gear CUP offers.  But SMA also adds additional weight which is according to people of lower quality than RHS.  But, correct me if i'm wrong, SMA still has better quality than CUP.
And seeing how size isn't an issue, what exactly is?
 

52 minutes ago, Adshield said:

previously we had another hmmwv mod which offered a better direct A2OA ports which looked ok, however I don't see a reason for not using the RHS versions as they control better, have better functionality [ie. shoot from windows etc], look better [higher quality models, textures and functional mirrors] and have a better overall polish [much more effort put into the vehicle].

Can i just point out that the RHS humvees look like they just rolled out of the factory?  Like out of the box new.  
Also dar adds a TOW humvee and a minigun one, both of which don't exist in RHS.  In addition all armed versions (except the minigun one) have protection for the gunner unlike the RHS ones.  So even though they're of lesser quality they add new content.  Question is if it's enough to pull its weight in the repo isn't it? 

 

55 minutes ago, Adshield said:

LAV-25

• In the battle between an LAV and a Bush the bush wins

Same goes for the prowler.  <sarcasm>Let's remove the prowler from enhanced</sarcasm>

 

Some not so relevant things:

Spoiler

57 minutes ago, Adshield said:

as having just TFAR is reproducible by playing EU1 and using TS and direct voice chat.

Literally nobody has suggested having just TFAR.  3 people wouldn't mind arma + ace + tfar.  

 

58 minutes ago, Adshield said:

desert Marpat , Stan using the re textured Nato gear in desert EMR getting on the gunner seat of a US MRAP. From longer range you cant tell if the person is allied or not due to the almost matching camo meaning A1 and ASL Marksman nearly engaged.

First of all: I only use that because it's literally the only save I have for OPFOR.  (No offence Ryko, the loadouts you made are certainly not bad, I just don't feel like they have everything I need).  I'll go make some after I'm done writing this, I don't really have anything to do and arma's open, win win
Second: At the range you guys were the only one able to see the shape of my helmet was the marksman. So it being retextured NATO stuff shouldn't matter as you can't see that from that range.

Thirtly: It was called out multiple times that the crew of that mrap was down and it was disabled, heck hob fired half a dozen RPGs into it. 
Also: I called out that I was at the MRAP.  I quickly hopped in to check how far gone it was and when I was up there decided to do a quick 360 for 2 reasons: 1, the entirety of alpha 2 was killed there earlier and as far as I could tell I was the first one back. And 2 the gun was working, I can't really say no to a .50 cal that falls in my lap ready to use.

In addition: digital desert (the camo i was wearing) looks nothing like what those marines were wearing.  Well not at least when you're close enough to see the shape of ones helmet.  And if you're further you can't see it anyways, I mean listen to your radio.  Which admittedly had a lot of useless traffic on it at the time.

And not to forget: we've fought PLA multiple times while NATO forces were wearing the exact same gear and not just similarly looking.

And finally: my camo was a closer match to what the ground looked like than what everyone else was wearing.  Last time I checked camo should match the ground.

 

To wrap up: I won't really mind if any of these mods get removed.  Will I be happy to see some of them go?  Not at all, but it's not like i'm going to stop playing because mod X was removed.  After all I already stated that I don't mind vanilla + tfar + ace.  I just feel like a lot of things aren't mentioned in this thread that are worth mentioning.  

 

Nobody touch my scar tho
just kidding

[Adshield]

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Isn't it the point of the mod to get in the way?  I've not seen it be buggy except for filling up your inventory with muzzle breaks when scrolling through the list of AKs.  There's actually an easy fix for that: don't do that, pick a gun and stick with it.

the issue also arises when you are dropping your weapon to reduce weight while defusing IEDs where you have to sit through long animations to take off each attachment, i'm all for having the animations play and i like the idea of them playing however i mentioned this as its the bugs which bring it down.

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

2 out of 8 enemy factions use units from this mod.  If syndicat were to be added only 2 out of 9.

items can be switched in the faction gear selections, there are many different options in mods such as RHS:GREF or RHS:SAF which we have on the server already.

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

it expectedly shows unexpected behaviour than I hardly call that broken

in its current state. however the point was, if we only use the large mod for the SCAR then we could swap it for another mod or not use it.

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

TOW humvee and a minigun one, both of which don't exist in RHS.

TOW hummvees are being worked on in RHS, and minigun hummvees are not needed at all, they are not used often in the US military as they are expensive, and require lots of ammunition compared to the M2, so for realism reasons I and multiple others dont like them. as of now there is a majority of people who hate the DAR HUMMVEE mod according to the results. if you really want up armoured or specialist role humvees then may i suggest asking zeus to use 'attach to' to make a custom vehicle.

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Same goes for the prowler. 

in a prowler driving a moderate speed yes a bush will damage it however while driving at very slow speeds the LAV can 'cook off' from touching the bush. a prowler is more understandable as it is a small light vehicle, however an LAV is not. if your driving quick enough for a bush to damage your vehicle, then avoid bushes and drive slower.

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Literally nobody has suggested having just TFAR

as i said though EU3 was started as public modded so the majority of peoples perception was that it would be more heavily modded and not just EU1 with TFAR and ACE. that larger group come to EU3 for the mods so removing the mods means large groups of people would leave, and that escalates further as people tend not to join empty servers.

 

4 hours ago, Stanhope said:

By the way, you are willing to add CUP (full) which will bring a lot of doubles which are of a lower quality as you yourself said.

i suggested this as it is an alternative to mods such as middle eastern faction and SMA that offers many different items including what the other mods have, it was a suggestion not a declaration.

 

4 hours ago, Stanhope said:

digital desert (the camo i was wearing) looks nothing like what those marines were wearing

it is a very similar camo with them both being desert digital camo with similar, and at the longer range it does look almost identical i know as i was the marksman, and i almost started engaging as i didn't know and couldn't tell what was in the gunner seat.

[Ryko]

11 minutes ago, Adshield said:

items can be switched in the faction gear selections

Not really, no.

 

11 minutes ago, Adshield said:

there are many different options in mods such as RHS:GREF or RHS:SAF which we have on the server already.

These are essentially retextures of the existing Russian assets. As I stated before, Middle Eastern Factions present a custom faction with a completely different weapon set, where ALL factions in RHS that aren't Blufor are slight derivations of the AK+Soviet gear.  You can make an argument that SAF is different but that's essentially a motley of Blufor and Opfor gear. I'm not really excited about making them a player faction or an enemy faction because there will be an increase in friendly fire due to similar weaponry used by players and enemies.

 

Why the hate for middle eastern factions? It's literally a 100kb mod.  I get that people have a perception problem with PLA China, but as has been demonstrated repeatedly the idea that they are overarmored compared to RHS is a bit blown out of proportion.

 

14 minutes ago, Adshield said:

TOW hummvees are being worked on in RHS

Release date: April 2019

 

15 minutes ago, Adshield said:

so for realism reasons

I wouldn't open up that can of worms.

 

16 minutes ago, Adshield said:

the LAV can 'cook off' from touching the bush.

This was fixed in my update of the mod, unfortunately we have a config error we can't track down at the moment, so for the time being it's not being used.

 

6 hours ago, Adshield said:

however I don't see a reason for not using the RHS versions

Still available in vehicle selection

[Johnson]

As much as I admire the backhanded conversations, my personal main concern for argument is SMA, DAR Humvees and MNP.

 

I haven't seen much discussion regarding those big players at all, other than me and Stan.

 

• I agree with @Ryko not to hold our breath for RHS, but I'm largely against restricting already existing RHS gear for the possibility of friendly-fire.
• I agree with @Adshield that RHS does offer quite a lot of gear that we don't use and that we could certainly get more out of the mod, but I'm against CUP.
• I agree with @Stanhope about LMount and the factions, but I'm against keeping SMA even with ACE compatibility.

 

Also it has become extremely evident to me that RHS is far from under-powered, but instead SMA is overpowered, as I've mentioned in replies to this topic.

 

Like I said, I'm all for discussion regarding the mods, but lets start with the big names first and in simplistic, organised and understandable manors, not verses from the Bible.

[Stanhope]

17 hours ago, J0hnson said:

Also it has become extremely evident to me that RHS is far from under-powered, but instead SMA is overpowered, as I've mentioned in replies to this topic.

Well, I hate to break it to you but your own poll shows (at least at this moment) that 11 people either like or love it and only 6 dislike or hate it (and 5 people don't care).

And while yes, currently there are some strange values being used by ACE because of the lack of compatibility patch, this should be fixed by adding one.  Meaning that SMA should be balanced better with RHS.  

 

What you could possibly do is ask for them to be blacklisted until that patch is added.

[Johnson]

My primary hope is for the removal of SMA as soon as RHS updates (if the update brings in what has been rumoured e.g SCARs)

 

The poll was to see how many people care, hopefully they're not biased towards SMA but instead simply enjoy the specialist weapons that RHS does not have.

[Joebillibob]

1 hour ago, J0hnson said:

My primary hope is for the removal of SMA as soon as RHS updates (if the update brings in what has been rumoured e.g SCARs)

I would be fine with that, as i think the SCAR is the biggest reason why i think we need this mod.

[Zeexe]

 I'm not comprehending what you guys are saying but since this is a poll, i care about the Stability of the mods  and how different mods interact with each other. I Don't care about how big the repo files going to be, its just going to be one overnight download (for guys with slow internet) and its going to stay for life-time.

 

More content = More things to do

[Amentes]

1 minute ago, Zeexe said:

 I'm not comprehending what you guys are saying but since this is a poll, i care about the Stability of the mods  and how different mods interact with each other. I Don't care about how big the repo files going to be, its just going to be one overnight download (for guys with slow internet) and its going to stay for life-time.

 

More content = More things to do

 

My own view is very similar, though I'm interested in how you interpret "more things to do."

 

For my part, I like having a lot of stuff for scenario creators to play around with, but once we're actually playing, I appreciate it when everyone looks like they're part of the same unit, that is wearing the same style of uniform and LBE/PPE, and using the same styles of weapons. I greatly dislike it when a 14-man squad starts looking like they recruited off Craigslist and all the recruits brought their own gear from their local supplier.

 

I usually refer to my preference as "looking good on video," because I believe part of what makes video from ShackTac and the like is that they look organized, and the uniform look of the players contribute to that. Just imagine a Shack video where everyone is wearing different camo.

 

I also believe that looking organized can help players want to be organized. Instill it, if you will.

[Joebillibob]

6 minutes ago, Zeexe said:

More content = More things to do

Well i not agreeing with this personally, not at all cost anyway.

 

I like having more stuff, but sometimes it bring a lot more problems. Sure, you can have more weapons, but when you realise you have 3-4 types of 5.56 ammo type that are not compatible with each other, i find this really complicated when it comes to logistics.

 

So, moderation can be good.

[Johnson]

RHS offers enough as a core content mod. Other, smaller, more specific mods should be added to fill the gaps.

 

For example, the F-18 mod and the Military Gear Pack both offer a simplistic yet greatly beneficial aspect to that RHS can use (more jets / more NATO plate carriers).

 

 

Using ACE + RHS + TFAR as the core three mods and only building lightly on them is my wet dream.

[Joebillibob]

2 hours ago, Amentes said:

I greatly dislike it when a 14-man squad starts looking like they recruited off Craigslist and all the recruits brought their own gear from their local supplier.

Well, on AWE at least, ASL or PlatCo can always force people to wear the same camo, but i only saw this once since i joined a couple months ago. 

 

All we need is more people wanting to be Lead, thing that i see rarely. Waaay too much bitching/responsibility for some. Can't say i disagree haha

[Johnson]

As much as I love the consistency of everyone using realistic RHS uniforms, I don't like forcing people to do so when I'm ASL as I would have to be forced into an MNP uniform if I was in that situation.

[Noah_Hero]

I dont mind what what we are wearing as long as it is similar. Would even wear some MNP-uniform if everyone else would do.

[Johnson]

I just think using RHS alone or at least as the core-content mod on AWE keeps everything extremely simple - in the contenxt of mod conflicts, weapon duplication and uniform mismatches.

[GhostDragon]

11 minutes ago, J0hnson said:

mod conflicts

all mods are tested before being put on server and this is how we are aware that RHS is underpowered vs vanilla weapons/equipment. (this is why the vanilla maaws is actually too good on server against rhs tanks) mod conflicts should not be that much of an issue. no matter if we remove mods or not.

[Johnson]

48 minutes ago, GhostDragon said:

RHS is underpowered

RHS is not underpowered against any faction we fight with any RHS equipment, be it USAF, AFRF or SAF. Even if we fought Viper RHS is not underpowered.

 

The conflicts I refer to our between unbalance and inaquality, for example, SMA rifles having 4x more accuracy than RHS rifles even though they use the same ammo and even have a shorter barrel. That isn't RHS underpower, that SMA overpower.

 

And I actually thought the vanilla MAAWs was fine. The HE that the RHS MAAWS gets can also knock out BTRs, maybe after an RHS hotfix it can be re-evaluated.

[Johnson]

This mod might make a suitable replacement for MNP. It only re-textures some RHS stuff offering a bit more variety while still keeping consistent with RHS. The mod attempts to add extra gear while keeping "clutter to a minimum" so I would say it's pretty perfect.

[Johnson]

To be honest, I would actually be happy for MNP to stay - should we get proper use out of it. As @Stanhope has suggested, it would be better is Stilettos factions are more gear specific rather than a large mix of BLUFOR or OPFOR gear which is near identical regardless of the faction.

 

This could also work great for MNP, for example, a Czech Republic faction, which I have recently started to fantasize about.