A few issues

[Guest]

So I got told to itemize my problems. So here they are:

 

1. As an ex member on the dev team, there was never enough input. When I joined I got told if there was no reply in a day, to just go ahead and do it. Yet that chat has over 10 people in it. Why have 10 when they don't give opinions? 

2. Effort - Many times I asked why certain things weren't done the reply from Stan was that he couldn't be bothered and that it was too much work. The mission won't work out well and won't be excellent unless a lot of work is put in.

3. Control - This links to part one. At the minute Stan is pretty much the leader of I&A dev. At least he was for my time in development. If that has changed I don't know. As you can see from my signature and past arguments that I made many times, he doesn't see the need to release things to the public. Yet look what was said last night... Players want to know whats going on yet you won't give it. Don't hide behind player liaisons, what stops you from posting it publicly rather than behind closed doors? Nothing. Its a community, not a hierarchy. I don't mind large decisions such as the future of AW and things to do with private matters such as selecting core staff. But when its about the game itself, why is there such an issue to post it on forums.

4. Optimization - Rather than sit and play with smaller mechanics, why not change bigger ones. Derp causes some of the biggest issues with the mission yet nobody toys with it, no one tries to fix it because they can't be bothered. Stan says the mission files are unoptimized yet won't optimize them. Yet when I say anything about how the community hasn't mentioned having things fixed such as the AO size, he says "They don't have to complain for us to fix" yet there are many things that could be optimized which arent even glanced at. 

 

Whilst @Ryko you have said to me to not make it personal... how can I not? I don't want it to be but most problems with the files start from him. Why? Because he is the only person who touches them. If there was a group to complain to I would be complaining to them. Thing is there isn't one. You are tied up with 3 and other projects, which is fine and I can support that. Other scripters are either gone because they were mistreated or have their own projects. Maybe one day there will be an actual 'team' that works on I&A, but for now there is on person, so it is impossible to make it personal without talking about him. Its like complaining about how America is being lead by its president, without mentioning Trump. It cannot be done.

[Ryko]

When I asked you to itemize your issues, I meant issues related to the mission, not I&A Dev - because you focused so much on the idea that Stan was doing work that did not improve the mission.  Thus I am going to focus on Point 4

36 minutes ago, McKillen said:

4. Optimization - Rather than sit and play with smaller mechanics, why not change bigger ones. Derp causes some of the biggest issues with the mission yet nobody toys with it, no one tries to fix it because they can't be bothered. Stan says the mission files are unoptimized yet won't optimize them. Yet when I say anything about how the community hasn't mentioned having things fixed such as the AO size, he says "They don't have to complain for us to fix" yet there are many things that could be optimized which arent even glanced at. 

 

"Yet there are many things that could be optimized which aren't even glanced at"

 

Please itemize.

[Stanhope]

12 minutes ago, McKillen said:

1. As an ex member on the dev team, there was never enough input. When I joined I got told if there was no reply in a day, to just go ahead and do it. Yet that chat has over 10 people in it. Why have 10 when they don't give opinions? 

Not everyone has a strong opinion about everything all the time.  We also all have personal lives and they always come first.  Both of these things aren't a big secret.  I thought they were well known facts.

 

13 minutes ago, McKillen said:

2. Effort - Many times I asked why certain things weren't done the reply from Stan was that he couldn't be bothered and that it was too much work. The mission won't work out well and won't be excellent unless a lot of work is put in.

Did you want a thruthfull reply or an excuse why I wasn't doing things?  Yes I cannot be bothered to do certain things like optimizing derp (for those who don't know what derp is: it's an old script we use for a variety of things ranging from the arsenal to revive to the AO spawning in).  Why can't I be bothered to optimize derp?  Because it'd take less effort to replace it than it would to optimize it.  That code was written with a brute force approach in mind.  Not FPS.  So that's why in the next update derp arsenal will be ditched and replaced with a more efficient vanilla based arsenal.  
A while back I already scrapped and rewrote how units are spawned in by the AO.  Believe it or not but this actually cut down the amount of time needed for an AO to spawn.
If you ask me why something specific hasn't been done yet I'll give you a truthful answer.  I couldn't be bothered to optimize derp.  I'll just replace it. 
Keep in mind that you've never asked me what specifically I'm doing to increase FPS/performance.  You do complain about me not doing anything about fps/performance tho, strange.

 

18 minutes ago, McKillen said:

3. Control - This links to part one. At the minute Stan is pretty much the leader of I&A dev. At least he was for my time in development. If that has changed I don't know. As you can see from my signature and past arguments that I made many times, he doesn't see the need to release things to the public. Yet look what was said last night... Players want to know whats going on yet you won't give it. Don't hide behind player liaisons, what stops you from posting it publicly rather than behind closed doors? Nothing. Its a community, not a hierarchy. I don't mind large decisions such as the future of AW and things to do with private matters such as selecting core staff. But when its about the game itself, why is there such an issue to post it on forums.

I was indeed pretty much the leader.  I'm still the guy who makes to most commits to the actual code.  But i've never been in charge of the direction I&A should take.  That responsibility has, since day 1 that I joined the dev team, been with someone else.

Why I don't ask everything publicly?  Because I want to get things moving.  If I make a topic publicly I need to wait a reasonable amount of time for all our players to see it.  Meaning that it'll be the next week before I know whether or not I can do something.  If I ask just in I&A dev channels I can do it at worst 2 days later, usually the day itself.  For those who aren't aware: the I&A dev channels contains people ranging from core staff to regular members.  Apart from the guy in charge of the direction I&A will take everyone's voice is equal in there.  

(FYI: it also takes time to make topics for the public, in the dev channels I don't really care about grammar, spelling, a nice layout, clearly explained.  I know that in the dev channels if people don't get what I mean they ask.  In public channels some people rather jump to conclusion than ask.)

 

24 minutes ago, McKillen said:

4. Optimization - Rather than sit and play with smaller mechanics, why not change bigger ones. Derp causes some of the biggest issues with the mission yet nobody toys with it, no one tries to fix it because they can't be bothered. Stan says the mission files are unoptimized yet won't optimize them. Yet when I say anything about how the community hasn't mentioned having things fixed such as the AO size, he says "They don't have to complain for us to fix" yet there are many things that could be optimized which arent even glanced at. 

Bigger issues like the AO spawning in pretty darn slow even though there are only 5 people on the server?
Or derp arsenal being a brute force approach instead of the more FPS friendly vanilla arsenal approach?

Or one of the many functions/scripts I have been, still am and will continue to look at to see if it can be optimized and do so if possible?

 

The reason you don't know about me optimizing things is because I never ask in the dev channels if I can make script X do exactly the same but more efficient.  It's pointless I know the answer will be yes.  You could check the commits I was making to the mission but I guess the optimization ones were drowned out by all the other ones I was making.

 

And i'm standing by the statement that people don't have to complain about something for us to fix it.
Quick example, a while back right after an arma update prio AA mission started throwing errors because BI changed how a command worked.  (I'm not the only one responsible for things bugging out.  BI sometimes changes how commands work and I put version up for testing on EU7 most of the time.  Meaning that people like yourself could/should have been able to find my mistakes and report them to me.)  It was creating an error file 17 gigabytes large.  For those who don't know anything about arma error files, they are in plain text.  Yes that is 17 gigabytes of plain text errors caused by BI changing how a command works.  I can't even open a 17 gigabyte file as I only have 8 gigs of ram and I believe something like 4 gigs of virtual ram.  Combined not enough to open it up.  I found a way around that and fixed the error.  Because of this the server rebooted quicker.  Nobody up until that point complained about the server taking longer than usual to respawn.  But I think we can all agree that avoiding a 17 gig error file is a good thing that needs to happen.
Even further before that I managed to skim off 200 lines of code from a 300 line file and make it do the exact same thing more efficiently.  I've also ditched a bunch of unnecessary commands in a targeting loop that runs regularly recently.  I've rewritten the base AA from a loop to simple events in the next version of I&A, ...
I could go on for hours about what i've did that positively impacted FPS and/or performance.

We're currently discussing yet another thing that could increase FPS, however this one isn't a slam dunk case as doing it will cause a certain feature to be lost.  

 

35 minutes ago, McKillen said:

how can I not? I don't want it to be but most problems with the files start from him. Why? Because he is the only person who touches them.

As mentioned earlier

1: BI sometimes changes ever so slightly what a command does causing massive errors.

2: I put most version on EU7 and ask people to test it.  If a bug/mistake slipped past that test phase I cannot be the sole person held responsible.  As you said there are 10 people in that chat.  Of course i'm the one who actually created the bug/mistake and will have to fix it.  But we're still a team, meaning shared accreditation for both good and bad things.  

 

38 minutes ago, McKillen said:

If there was a group to complain to I would be complaining to them. Thing is there isn't one.

With respect: bullshit.  I often ask people to test things.  Something slipping past the test phase is the responsibility of all those who worked on the mission and all those who were supposed to test it.

 

39 minutes ago, McKillen said:

Maybe one day there will be an actual 'team' that works on I&A, but for now there is on person, so it is impossible to make it personal without talking about him.

We have a team, we all do things together.  Yes I'm the only one writing code but there is more to making a mission than writing code.  There is testing, writing briefings, making screenshots, ...

 

 

If you feel like I'm not optimizing certain things that I could be optimizing and/or replacing within a reasonable time frame without having to set aside my personal life please let me know which specific things they are.

There are over 100 files in I&A with thousands upon thousands of lines of code in them.  If I were to want to read them all to find things to optimize I'd spend a good 10-20 hours merely reading.  Then i'd still have to start writing code that focuses more on performance and FPS.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

With respect: bullshit.  I often ask people to test things.  Something slipping past the test phase is the responsibility of all those who worked on the mission and all those who were supposed to test it.

With respect, has nothing to do with anything that I said. We are talking about the ideas I disagree with, the testers you chose had nothing to do with that, you did. Yet I get told to quit the personal attacks? They aren't personal attacks. I am talking about the mission with 99% of all posts bar one which the public can't see. Yet still I'm being told to quit the personal attacks... There isn't anything personal about it. I don't like the idea. The testers aren't developers, unless they too have access... 

[Xwatt]

Ok, I initially thought i'm not gonna get involved, but on seconds thoughts I feel a need to elaborate on such issues, whether whoever i'm addressing likes it or not. It may have nothing to do with me but I hope whatever I say can shed some light on the situation

 

55 minutes ago, McKillen said:

there was never enough input.

Honestly I can agree with this. I myself notice this broken dev team we've all tried to fix this and yet it leads nowhere. The clear problem is our lack of actual devs therefore it leads to a group with a bunch of admins and like 2 devs. The input on my perspective seems to be getting better. I had an issue that I disliked in I&3, so I brought this up being constructive and issuing ideas on how to fix this problem and how it can change, and from my one suggestion it led to a massive discussion with the idea I put forward being implemented. So yes the communication has been shambles, but I can assure you that we are becoming more open about our issues and how we can fix them.

 

55 minutes ago, McKillen said:

Many times I asked why certain things weren't done the reply from Stan was that he couldn't be bothered and that it was too much work

Again, Stan isn't paid to do anything therefore if he really wanted to he could put 100% effort in or put 0% effort in. At the end of the day everything he contributes is purely voluntary and if he sees it to be too much work so be it this isn't his job its something he does in his spare time and he can therefore choose how much effort he is willing to contribute and there is no threshold against him.

 

 

55 minutes ago, McKillen said:

he doesn't see the need to release things to the public

May I remind you that what is released to the public or not has nothing to do with Stan. what he does is communicate what needs doing and he codes that in. It's up to the likes of Core Staff to decide what information goes out to the public, hence why Stan is hesitant, if he talks out he may say something that is not meant to be announced therefore that is left to core staff to decide what is and isn't released to the public.

 

55 minutes ago, McKillen said:

Derp causes some of the biggest issues with the mission yet nobody toys with it

Derp is going to be removed in future versions and this is due to feedback Stan received. Maybe you were rushing him a bit too much to get it done eh?

 

55 minutes ago, McKillen said:

I don't want it to be but most problems with the files start from him.

Correction. Most the problems arise due to poor communication that show between you and Stan. Maybe being nice and civil would have got you further talking to Stan rather than always being so rude to him like I have seen you do before. The problems start when people start complaining at Stan yet they don't realise how much Stan has done for the development of I&A. In reality he should be thanked and not have this sh*t thrown at him when all he does in completely

 

57 minutes ago, McKillen said:

If there was a group to complain to I would be complaining to them

yeah you'd complain but again you just seem to be rude about it. Maybe ask nicely, if you don't want to talk to Stan talk to me. But really your removal from the dev team doesn't make you realise it was due to your poor attitude? Maybe you need to rethink how you come across to others Mckillen. it would do you more good than harm.

[Guest]

I do understand that I'm being rude. I don't necessarily enjoy it but it has gotten me involved in more discussion than being polite has. You start a discussion politely and get the reply of "yeah we'll look at it" then 3 months go by.... and you wait. Whereas if you are blunt you get an instant answer. I replied to the topic bluntly and got a reply within an hour. Back when I had joined for the first time, it would take maybe a day for a response. And we all know how shit I am at explaining things, which is the reason I am blunt. If people have a problem with it then why not say? The only time I get told I was rude was when I actively seeked it out. It all boils down to communication. And if anybody wants to talk about it im fine. But talking to Stan nets a sarcastic reply 50% of the time, which after months of talking to him does get annoying and you do get exasperated. But I can't help it, its the only way people actually pay attention to what is said.

[Guest]

As for itemization, the main mission file I was told was outdated, along with scripts that I have looked into in the past (im not recalling individual ones) that havent been touched since 2013. Some of them are fine but others I know are outdated having asked at the time and getting told they were outdated. I was going to add derp to the list but I just found out it was being removed. I may get specific names of files but for now I'm too busy to go hunting.

[Stanhope]

I took the time to write a page long reply explain things in great detail.  You replied to 1 paragraph while there are way more things to reply to.  You've also ignored what Ryko asked.  I'm going to refrain from posting in here until you've both replied to ryko, the rest of my post and the rest of Xwatt's post.

As for your signature: I could take a lot of the things you said and display them in such a way, out of context, to make them look bad.  I won't lower myself to that level.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

I took the time to write a page long reply explain things in great detail.  You replied to 1 paragraph while there are way more things to reply to.  You've also ignored what Ryko asked.  I'm going to refrain from posting in here until you've both replied to ryko, the rest of my post and the rest of Xwatt's post.

I'll reply but each time I do a new post comes so i reply to the new one

 

4 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

As for your signature: I could take a lot of the things you said and display them in such a way, out of context, to make them look bad.  I won't lower myself to that level.

Not all that out of context, I asked why not to display it and that was the response. I tried to fit both in but you couldnt read it  

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

Not everyone has a strong opinion about everything all the time.  We also all have personal lives and they always come first.  Both of these things aren't a big secret.  I thought they were well known facts.

@Stanhope

It doesn't take a strong opinion to say 'Yeah sure thats great' or 'No don't try it out, will explain another time.' I'm not expecting a novel on it, just SOME form of answer, it could even just be the letter Y. Rather than a wall of dead silence that will never be replied to ever. I have put things in their that probably still aren't replied to.

 

42 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

Did you want a thruthfull reply or an excuse why I wasn't doing things?  Yes I cannot be bothered to do certain things like optimizing derp (for those who don't know what derp is: it's an old script we use for a variety of things ranging from the arsenal to revive to the AO spawning in).  Why can't I be bothered to optimize derp?  Because it'd take less effort to replace it than it would to optimize it.  That code was written with a brute force approach in mind.  Not FPS.  So that's why in the next update derp arsenal will be ditched and replaced with a more efficient vanilla based arsenal.  
A while back I already scrapped and rewrote how units are spawned in by the AO.  Believe it or not but this actually cut down the amount of time needed for an AO to spawn.

In the past when I asked, you have said it can't be removed because it is too deep into the I&A code. Now it is being removed. Deny it if you want but it was said. But what made it doable all of a sudden? It has been making so many issues for so long. Why not start earlier? Why leave it for roughly a year?

 

44 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

You do complain about me not doing anything about fps/performance tho, strange.

I'm not trying to say you do nothing, if i did then im wrong and shouldn't of done. My bad. Want I meant to say is things aren't prioritized. Stability and performance above content. When games are released with awful optimization there is uproar. The devs fix it then release content. They don't leave it for a while then decide to change it. Well, in the case of Bohemia they have but look at some of the abuse they have gotten. They are joked about constantly for having terrible optimization. No we are not a company but its not bad to take notes from them and see what they do right and wrong. If everyone here wants a large community it almost needs to be treated as such.

 

49 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

If I make a topic publicly I need to wait a reasonable amount of time for all our players to see it.  Meaning that it'll be the next week before I know whether or not I can do something.  If I ask just in I&A dev channels I can do it at worst 2 days later, usually the day itself.

I don't care about the small things, but the bigger gameplay changing things I do care about. I said about displaying the idea of reducing the AO EI to public. Then, my signature was your reply. Who are you (formerly we) to decide what happens on EU1. The dev team is 10 heads all put together. But not all 10 play on EU1 as the regular players do. Its the regulars who should have the most input on the game. Not you, not I, not even Core Staff. Its a community hint is in the name. Even if the idea doesn't go ahead, it is still good to get feedback so you can have an idea on players opinions. Why not announce the new EU2 ahead of time? "oh well we weren't sure at the time" Well say that to them. Tell them that. Then they can understand if it does not go ahead. Your argument for not posting on the forums is that nobody is here. Well, What are you doing to attract them? ay? Nothing, you expect players to come to the forums to seek out info, wrong, they should come here to find out things, to join the community. They shouldn't be expected to use the forums, but regardless, staff should use it to communicate even with that 1 player that comes here. 

 

56 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

We're currently discussing yet another thing that could increase FPS, however this one isn't a slam dunk case as doing it will cause a certain feature to be lost.

As if to reinforce the point. Why only discuss it inside. Why not on the outside? Why does it have to be kept on the inside for only devs and mods to see? If it will cause a certain feature to be lost then why are you not talking to your playerbase about it? That is the whole point of having a playerbase as large as AWs is. Use the players, don't ignore them.

 

59 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

I put most version on EU7 and ask people to test it.  If a bug/mistake slipped past that test phase I cannot be the sole person held responsible.  As you said there are 10 people in that chat.  Of course i'm the one who actually created the bug/mistake and will have to fix it.  But we're still a team, meaning shared accreditation for both good and bad things. 

Yes and thats fine. But e aren't talking about bugs. I'm talking about commits to the gitlab, if it were a bug then yes I could get behind this, but this isn't a bug. It was your idea. Therefore, if I talk about it im obviously going to address you. If it were say Chucks idea. Then I would have addressed him rather than you. Its not personal, just coincidence that I strongly disagree with it, and that it happens to be your idea. If anybody else comes up with one I strongly dislike I shall let you know.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

There are over 100 files in I&A with thousands upon thousands of lines of code in them.  If I were to want to read them all to find things to optimize I'd spend a good 10-20 hours merely reading.  Then i'd still have to start writing code that focuses more on performance and FPS.

In the past I have mentioned many a thing. The response was always "you do it". I don't think its a huge secret that im not good enough to do a large amount of things. But I was up for trying. You can't just jump in, you have to start small yet I was being told to sprint rather than to walk. It started off fine, but as time went on I get more of the "you do it" and the "i cant help you". Yes there were indeed times where you would sit and help me. That I am actually thankful for and fully appreciate that. But I did need just some more, I try but then I get stuck. 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Xwatt said:

So yes the communication has been shambles, but I can assure you that we are becoming more open about our issues and how we can fix them.

@Xwatt 

That's good to hear that it is getting better. All the best. (and im not being sarcastic, this is honest)

 

52 minutes ago, Xwatt said:

At the end of the day everything he contributes is purely voluntary and if he sees it to be too much work so be it this isn't his job its something he does in his spare time and he can therefore choose how much effort he is willing to contribute and there is no threshold against him.

Thats fair enough. I get I may be asking a bit too much, but just say so. Not going to lie, I do forget this sometimes. But please, if I ask for to omuch then just say so. If you say, look I don't have time right now but maybe another. Or just say, there is no way possible I can do that. I can get behind. However, if I recall correctly there were some ideas I suggested that I was told could not be done. Such as removing derp. Yet here we are, removing derp. If you explain to me why you can't get it done then fair enough, but I won't take a no for a reason. Im sure some of you know that.

57 minutes ago, Xwatt said:

It's up to the likes of Core Staff to decide what information goes out to the public

Then I ask core staff, why is there an issue with posting all ideas publicly whether they go ahead or not. Just state that it is undecided if it will go ahead or not. This is only aimed at I&A dev only, not major decisions on plans etc. for AWs future. However in my opinion, its a community, the players should be allowed to see all ideas that are thought up of. Even if it is a simple "Why not do this", "Its impossible, thats why". At least it shows an attempt. It shows thought, and it give players more reason to come back to the forums again and gives them a reason to join the community.

 

1 hour ago, Xwatt said:

Maybe you were rushing him a bit too much to get it done eh?

Alright, I'll lay off him.

 

1 hour ago, Xwatt said:

Correction. Most the problems arise due to poor communication that show between you and Stan. Maybe being nice and civil would have got you further talking to Stan rather than always being so rude to him like I have seen you do before.

I have tried before on telegram but I keep getting a wave of the hand. For example the time I tried to ask him a question, I knew he was active as he was on teamspeak so I moved to telegram. Yes I did spam him a bit there, but if someone flat ignored you when they told you a few hours prior they would talk to you it would be agitating, no? Anyway, after sending 14 messages he replies. Then after tells me he is busy. If in future it started with Im busy, I wouldnt get fed up and annoyed. I can wait.

 

1 hour ago, Xwatt said:

yeah you'd complain but again you just seem to be rude about it. Maybe ask nicely, if you don't want to talk to Stan talk to me. But really your removal from the dev team doesn't make you realise it was due to your poor attitude? Maybe you need to rethink how you come across to others Mckillen. it would do you more good than harm.

I have tried in the past. But apparently the only way to get someone to read your posts and ideas is to get another admin to say it is rude or bad. Otherwise you get ignored as I said in a previous paragraph. I honestly do feel like to get a reaction/reply to a topic the only way to get a clear one is to make it blunt. If it means I piss off people then I'm sorry but I'm not sitting around for a week to get someone to reply to me. 

 

However, I know I'm rude. I will try to stop it to be nicer. But I would also like to point to @Stanhope, look at xwatts reply. His is a lot more clear, in my eyes. Just flat out say why, if you argue with me, then by now if I'm already labelled as arrogant & rude (apologies) then you know I will argue back. I don't want to spend my entire evening arguing here. But I feel to make a point I have to.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, McKillen said:

As for itemization, the main mission file I was told was outdated, along with scripts that I have looked into in the past (im not recalling individual ones) that havent been touched since 2013. Some of them are fine but others I know are outdated having asked at the time and getting told they were outdated. I was going to add derp to the list but I just found out it was being removed. I may get specific names of files but for now I'm too busy to go hunting.

@Ryko

 

This is the general list. If you want it more specific then let me know but Stan has also admitted that there are multiple files out of date, that will probably provide more FPS. If he is working on them then great. Thanks for letting me know, if he had done that earlier this would not get dragged out so far. Although I do also realize I never tried to keep up to date with what he was doing in dev. Frankly I didn't care as I had lost all will to try to develop, but I still want it to do well despite everyones opinion of me. 

 

@Xwatt Thanks for clearing more of it up to me.

 

@Stanhope & Ryko, I hope you are satisfied with your replies.

[Stanhope]

46 minutes ago, McKillen said:

It doesn't take a strong opinion to say 'Yeah sure thats great' or 'No don't try it out, will explain another time.' I'm not expecting a novel on it, just SOME form of answer, it could even just be the letter Y. Rather than a wall of dead silence that will never be replied to ever. I have put things in their that probably still aren't replied to.

When living a busy live it doesn't take much before a day has gone by without being able to check your telegram.  There are a gazillion reasons why people wouldn't respond, I didn't really care why they didn't respond.  
I don't know if you noticed but we've started to do things differently for a good few months now.  

 

46 minutes ago, McKillen said:

In the past when I asked, you have said it can't be removed because it is too deep into the I&A code. Now it is being removed. Deny it if you want but it was said. But what made it doable all of a sudden? It has been making so many issues for so long. Why not start earlier? Why leave it for roughly a year?

Further down your post you said that you aren't good enough at SQF to do certain things.  You're not the only one who's still learning SQF.  There are only a handful of people in the entire world that can honistly say that they cannot learn anything anymore in any coding language.  And usually it's the people who wrote said language.

A year ago it'd have taken me several hours to do what I do now in half an hour.  A year ago I wouldn't have been able to change the arsenal out for a new one.  I still ain't good enough to do it completely myself.  I copy pasted some code ryko wrote into I&A 3 and a new arsenal was born.

Don't get me wrong I completely understand what the code does and how it works.  But that's the easy part of coding, the hard part is making it yourself.

 

46 minutes ago, McKillen said:

I'm not trying to say you do nothing, if i did then im wrong and shouldn't of done. My bad. Want I meant to say is things aren't prioritized. Stability and performance above content. When games are released with awful optimization there is uproar. The devs fix it then release content. They don't leave it for a while then decide to change it. Well, in the case of Bohemia they have but look at some of the abuse they have gotten. They are joked about constantly for having terrible optimization. No we are not a company but its not bad to take notes from them and see what they do right and wrong. If everyone here wants a large community it almost needs to be treated as such.

Because I don't have a list ordered by priority.  When making new missions I try to make them as good as possible for performance/FPS.  And while i'm doing that i'll come across something that could be optimized and I do it.  I could spend hours and hours of looking at code to find something to optimize.  But that'd be terribly inefficient.  So I just fix things when I find them.  

 

46 minutes ago, McKillen said:

I don't care about the small things, but the bigger gameplay changing things I do care about. I said about displaying the idea of reducing the AO EI to public. Then, my signature was your reply. Who are you (formerly we) to decide what happens on EU1. The dev team is 10 heads all put together. But not all 10 play on EU1 as the regular players do. Its the regulars who should have the most input on the game. Not you, not I, not even Core Staff. Its a community hint is in the name. Even if the idea doesn't go ahead, it is still good to get feedback so you can have an idea on players opinions. Why not announce the new EU2 ahead of time? "oh well we weren't sure at the time" Well say that to them. Tell them that. Then they can understand if it does not go ahead. Your argument for not posting on the forums is that nobody is here. Well, What are you doing to attract them? ay? Nothing, you expect players to come to the forums to seek out info, wrong, they should come here to find out things, to join the community. They shouldn't be expected to use the forums, but regardless, staff should use it to communicate even with that 1 player that comes here. 

Who am I to decide what is small and what is big?  How do I know if what I consider to be small isn't a big things to someone else?  Why should I be the one making the decision what to make public and what to keep private?  

Right now i'll make a topic in the hidden I&A dev section.  If it gets a lot of friction or a lot of outspoken opinions it'll most likely be asked publically.  Another reason something would be made public is if someone from CS tells me to ask something publicly.  If neither occurs I am going to assume it's not a big issue and it doesn't require community input.

 

46 minutes ago, McKillen said:

As if to reinforce the point. Why only discuss it inside. Why not on the outside? Why does it have to be kept on the inside for only devs and mods to see? If it will cause a certain feature to be lost then why are you not talking to your playerbase about it? That is the whole point of having a playerbase as large as AWs is. Use the players, don't ignore them.

Yet another reason why I keep stuff inside the dev team.  You just jumped to a conclusion, I don't exactly know what it is but it's with a chance of 99,9999% not what we're actually going to do. 
It's a really really small feature that isn't needed for the core gameplay.  Does that satisfy you or do you still want to know what specifically it is?  

As to why I didn't immediately way what it was in this thread: 1 this thread isn't the place to, 2: it's not the time to, we're still discussing it internally, 3: it's a small thing, ...

 

46 minutes ago, McKillen said:

Yes and thats fine. But e aren't talking about bugs. I'm talking about commits to the gitlab, if it were a bug then yes I could get behind this, but this isn't a bug. It was your idea. Therefore, if I talk about it im obviously going to address you. If it were say Chucks idea. Then I would have addressed him rather than you. Its not personal, just coincidence that I strongly disagree with it, and that it happens to be your idea. If anybody else comes up with one I strongly dislike I shall let you know.

Do you have any idea how coding works?  You don't let the dev test their own creation.  They won't test for things they didn't think of to check.  You need a different brain that can come up with things you systematically overlooked.  That's why all major companies hire people specifically to test IT (and other) products.

 

Something else major companies have is analysts.  People who analyse what needs to happen and tell the devs roughly how to do it.  We don't have that here.  I just do stuff.  And for all non small/obvious things I'll ask input from the dev team.  And if needed from the community.

 

46 minutes ago, McKillen said:

In the past I have mentioned many a thing. The response was always "you do it". I don't think its a huge secret that im not good enough to do a large amount of things. But I was up for trying. You can't just jump in, you have to start small yet I was being told to sprint rather than to walk. It started off fine, but as time went on I get more of the "you do it" and the "i cant help you". Yes there were indeed times where you would sit and help me. That I am actually thankful for and fully appreciate that. But I did need just some more, I try but then I get stuck. 

Do you know how I learned SQF?  

Nobody ever explained it to me, nobody ever held my hand.  If I had a very specific question I could ask that and get a very specific answer.  If I made a mistake I was left to fix it myself.  I figured out how to do things myself and yes it was with trial and error.  I don't have any shame in saying that the rescue pilot mission is a mess codewise.  It's plain horrible.  Because that's the very first mission I ever wrote.  I wrote it all alone, the guys who were maintaining I&A didn't help me nor did I ask for their help.  They laughed at me when I tested the first version on a dedicated server and it failed horribly.  They offered their help and did actually help a bit but I knew that I am the one that is gonna have to do it in the end.  So I fixed it.  Half a year after I released the first version of that mission I finally gathered the courage to look at the code again and I basically started over.  It's now 10 times more performant than it used to be.  And if I take another look at it today I could probably make it even more performant.  And I'll most likely do that in the near future.  I can't tell you when that will be because I don't know when school is gonna cut me a break.

Do I regret the way I learned SQF?  Not one bit.  I'm still learning every day, I've come a long way and still have hundreds of miles to go before I can look at myself in the mirror and call myself a good SQF coder.  Right now, i'm a coder that manages to keep the show running and can make some improvements here and there.

 

Now about you and learning SQF.  I don't feel like you appreciate that I left you to learn SQF yourself.  And frankly I don't care.  If you want to learn SQF you'll have to do it yourself.  I'm not gonna teach you.  I'll answer very specific questions and if I have some time explain some concepts and stuff like magic variables.  But don't expect me to teach you how to write SQF.  I don't have time for that.  I could be spending the time that i'm talking to you teaching SQF optimizing I&A.

 

And if you get stuck just keep bloody going.  That how you get things done.  That's how I do things.  I'm not saying keep bashing your head into that 3m thick wall hoping it'll come down on it's own.  Take a step back, think and pick up that pickaxe lying right next to you and start chopping till it's done.

1 hour ago, McKillen said:

You start a discussion politely and get the reply of "yeah we'll look at it" then 3 months go by.... and you wait.

How about you convince people in a civilised way that it's important rather instead of being rude?

 

1 hour ago, McKillen said:

Back when I had joined for the first time, it would take maybe a day for a response. And we all know how shit I am at explaining things, which is the reason I am blunt. If people have a problem with it then why not say? The only time I get told I was rude was when I actively seeked it out. It all boils down to communication. And if anybody wants to talk about it im fine.

People don't like talking to people who are rude.  They'll avoid it because they expect a rude reply.  So if you want to complain that people didn't talk to you, look at yourself first.

 

1 hour ago, McKillen said:

And if anybody wants to talk about it im fine. But talking to Stan nets a sarcastic reply 50% of the time, which after months of talking to him does get annoying and you do get exasperated. But I can't help it, its the only way people actually pay attention to what is said.

There are hardly any conversations where I choose to reply sarcastically to.  Meaning that what you perceive as me being sarcastic is a breakdown in communication somewhere.
This sounds really similar to why people stopped talking to you.  Seems like I'm not the only one doing something wrong when communicating.  

 

1 hour ago, McKillen said:

the main mission file I was told was outdated, along with scripts that I have looked into in the past (im not recalling individual ones) that havent been touched since 2013. Some of them are fine but others I know are outdated having asked at the time and getting told they were outdated.

Yes scripts like vehicle service and base AA are really really old scripts.  Base AA has been changed in next version, I had a go at vehicle service a while ago but exams got in the way.  I've received some code from a community member that should fix the issues we were having with the new script I pieced together and it's still something I want to get done one of these days.

 

1 hour ago, McKillen said:

I was going to add derp to the list but I just found out it was being removed. I may get specific names of files but for now I'm too busy to go hunting.

No derp is most definitely still outdated.  It's still pretty tangled into the mission.  Mission startup parameters, revive, teamkill message, ...  just a handful of things still done by derp.

 

5 minutes ago, McKillen said:

Thats fair enough. I get I may be asking a bit too much, but just say so. Not going to lie, I do forget this sometimes. But please, if I ask for to omuch then just say so. If you say, look I don't have time right now but maybe another. Or just say, there is no way possible I can do that. I can get behind. However, if I recall correctly there were some ideas I suggested that I was told could not be done. Such as removing derp. Yet here we are, removing derp. If you explain to me why you can't get it done then fair enough, but I won't take a no for a reason. Im sure some of you know that.

Isn't it obvious that people have real lives they need to look after?  If you don't get a reply for 3 months doesn't mean you're being ignored, it means people have forgot because they have bussy real lifes.

 

8 minutes ago, McKillen said:

I have tried before on telegram but I keep getting a wave of the hand. For example the time I tried to ask him a question, I knew he was active as he was on teamspeak so I moved to telegram. Yes I did spam him a bit there, but if someone flat ignored you when they told you a few hours prior they would talk to you it would be agitating, no? Anyway, after sending 14 messages he replies. Then after tells me he is busy. If in future it started with Im busy, I wouldnt get fed up and annoyed. I can wait.

I live a busy live, I go to school, I do loads of other things.  It might look like I'm always available but that's not actually the case.  By the way a search for busy in our PMs turned this up:

Spoiler

 

 Now tell me again that I have not explained why I can't do something.  At my house if you're talking to a person you don't pick up your phone for texts etc.  Calls yes, texts no.  Even if the screen is unlocked (meaning telegram interprets that as me seeing all your messages and being 'online').

Do I really have to explain every single aspect of my personal life to you and the rest of the internet because you can't wait 10 minutes for a reply?
 

19 minutes ago, McKillen said:

I have tried in the past. But apparently the only way to get someone to read your posts and ideas is to get another admin to say it is rude or bad. Otherwise you get ignored as I said in a previous paragraph. I honestly do feel like to get a reaction/reply to a topic the only way to get a clear one is to make it blunt. If it means I piss off people then I'm sorry but I'm not sitting around for a week to get someone to reply to me.

Then either you have a perception problem or it's something you do.  Because I answer to any post I read as soon as I've got the time.  

 

16 minutes ago, McKillen said:

This is the general list. If you want it more specific then let me know

I'd like a specific list.

 

16 minutes ago, McKillen said:

Thanks for letting me know, if he had done that earlier this would not get dragged out so far.

You didn't ask.  You started accusing.

 

 

I'm going to bed now, in case you're wondering why I won't reply until tomorrow.

[Johnson]

Good.... GOD, is there any chance of a summary of this post?

 

I read the initial post and half of the comments but my eyes are genuinely hurting.

 

 

 

Tbh the post seemed to be concluded in @Stanhope's first reply no? It seemed like it was predominantly a personal problem which was instantly solved with the first reply; Stan does what he can in his free time for I&A which I think is already a fair amount. I doubt he would ever intentionally slow the progression of the mission. Additionally, as Stan mentioned, he doesn't lead the direction of I&A, problem solved, no?

 

 

 

Apologies for intentionally getting involved but, with all due respects, I don't this this post is progressing or helping anyone, including the community. As @Ryko mentioned almost instantaneously, I think your major (preferably non-personal) problems need to be itemized @McKillen. Any personal problems you have with Stan should defiantly be talked  out on TeamSpeak, not written in this novel of arguments.

 

Apologies again for getting involved. Didn't really want too but we've had posts like this before and they need to cut off before they escalate.

[Xwatt]

11 minutes ago, J0hnson said:

Good.... GOD, is there any chance of a summary of this post?

Ex Dev member complaining about issues in the I&A dev team such as;

• Communuication
• Effort put in
• Optimising the mission
• Personal issues with Stan

then it just spurred into a massive argument.

 

Thank me for the conclusion later 

 

Honestly I agree with Jonhnson here, this argument can go on all day and it will not end with anything useful rather than butthurt people. It's better just leaving it and for @McKillen just to be more co-operative and reasonable when communicating and for @Stanhope to get past the personal issues and take it from a proffesional standpoint.

 

I'd like this topic to end here as it isnt going to bring about anything useful.

[Guest]

Fair enough, my summary of all points on topic to I&A

Communication isn’t/wasn’t there

Prioritisation needed but not there

As other users say:

More changes and additions than fixes

 

On the off chance someone wants to follow this up then let me know.

[Xwatt]

Thank you @McKillen

I will definitely take everything you said into account here as it is valuable feedback that i'll use myself for the future of the I&A dev team, if you need anything at all contact me as you know where to find me  

 

 

Topic Locked.