AWE Logi (Issues & Suggestions)

[GrandBravo]

Now, I know a few of the AW members feel this way so I wanna know how the entire community thinks about it.

 

First of all, I like Logi a lot! Making a flat area into a big operating base is pretty awesome. However, by the time the FOB is done, the server is almost gonna hash because of the 6 mission limit. Of course we could increase the mission limit but that isn't really the solution if we are looking on server performance. Also, I've noticed that FOB's are (almost) not being attacked... Basically you can place all essential buildings and forget the defense part like walls and towers.

 

So what is the use of building a FOB that is almost never being used to its full capacity?

 

I've been brainstorming this puzzle for a while and I think some of these idea's/suggestions can increase the functionality and fun for Logi but also the other players!

 

Idea's:

1. FOB Attack/Defense

- Increase FOB attacks.

- Disable FOB respawn if its under attack.

- FOB's can be taken over by enemy.

- Mission will only hash if main conditions are set but also if all FOB's are under friendly control.

 

2. Logi Pilot

- Reintroduce Logi Pilot so FOB are faster created and Logi can reslot and join the fun on the battlefield.

 

3. Add more stuff

- Add more items like chairs, tables, campfire, tents, camo net, etc.

 

4. Logi GUI

- Create a friendly Grafical User Interface so its better to make out what you are selecting.

- Set Direction needs to be linked with your mouse scroll or keyboard when activated so you don't have a random direction.

- Gradient Check needs to be improved or removed. It doesn't work and is most of the time a pain in the ass.

- Supply refund when removing items.

 

5. Friendly AI's

This is a big one but just a suggestion!

- Make it possible that we can spawn AI to defend the FOB. Logi can order AI to man the .50 cal and stand behind a sandbag.

- Medical building, Vehicle, heli and jet spawn all need AI medic/Engineers to be functional. You can even add a simulation if a vehicle needs service.

 

6. Spawn Camera

- Although its not realistic. Placing a spawn camera to see Main base spawn and FOB spawn will indicate the players where to spawn.

[Amentes]

40 minutes ago, GrandBravo said:

2. Logi Pilot

- Reintroduce Logi Pilot so FOB are faster created and Logi can reslot and join the fun on the battlefield.

 

I honestly don't get why it could ever take more than 10 minutes to get a reasonable amount of build points out.

 

One vortex pilot, even better with one guy assisting at base, can load up Medium (300) crates into the ACE cargo of a CH-47 and fly at speed.

A mistake I see happen a lot is the attempts to sling heavy 600 crates.

Flying with slung cargo forces the pilot to fly at low speed, and even then one can never be guaranteed to not experience desync and lose the cargo.

Medium crates are simply the speedier choice.

 

I suppose I might suggest that Light be entirely discontinued, as it appears to serve no real purpose.

 

47 minutes ago, GrandBravo said:

3. Add more stuff

- Add more items like chairs, tables, campfire, tents, camo net, etc.

 

48 minutes ago, GrandBravo said:

5. Friendly AI's

This is a big one but just a suggestion!

- Make it possible that we can spawn AI to defend the FOB. Logi can order AI to man the .50 cal and stand behind a sandbag.

- Medical building, Vehicle, heli and jet spawn all need AI medic/Engineers to be functional. You can even add a simulation if a vehicle needs service.

 

While visually interesting, this would add unnecessary stress on server, diminishing player experience.

 

--

 

Overall I've never been a fan of FOBs. My personal preference is removal of Logi in its entirety. But I suppose that's a different debate

[Ryko]

Before adding to this thread, I should stress that I never saw the creation of FOBs as the means to create a whole different line of gameplay - ie., specific code which is designed to have the enemy attack a FOB.  There's a reason the majority of the Stiletto (and previously, Gauntlet) missions are player-attack missions: ARMA AI is pretty terrible at attacking a point. Players are often bored in a defend mission simply because the AI can't drive themselves there without hitting a rock, or can't pathfind a route to make it happen, or see a helicopter fly over and go combat-red, refusing to advance until they go back into combat-aware mode.

 

Ambient AI seems to work fairly decently at providing a threat for FOBs, but it takes all players into consideration on the battlefield, not specifically those at a FOB.

 

The use of a FOB should be a considered act determined by the unit commander, not a default must-do. I know for maps like Stratis and Bozcaada there is a heavy emphasis on air insertion simply because there isn't a base on the land, but that doesn't absolutely necessitate the creation of a FOB.

 

To the points:

1) I think I've kind of addressed this one. I don't like the idea of disabling the respawn if the FOB is under attack. For the FOB being taken over by the enemy, not sure how that would look other than they would just stand there. As for disabling hash of mission for the FOB control, not super excited about creating additional exception code for that.

 

I may add something that allows staff to disable automatic mission hashing, and add a hash button instead that's only active when conditions are met (though of course, staff can just hash missions at any time).

 

2) Not interested in creating a separate Logi pilot, unless we get a consistently higher number of players on average. The main emphasis of the mission is boots on the ground completing missions, not spending hours crafting the perfect FOB. Plus as a commander I would want the flexibility of using the pilots as the mission demands, not having some pilot tell me he can't ferry troops because he's the Logi pilot. We altered the Vortex structure this way on purpose.

 

3) Not interested in having the FOB equivalent of dressup, additional objects means additional load on the server.

 

4) I might invest some time into adding additional placement functionality, but don't hold your breath. The whole logi system was created to be quick and simple. The rotation dynamic can certainly be improved, but it's not random - it will rotate the structure to YOUR direction, and then you can turn and place it where you want. The gradient check is there to prevent you from placing structures in impossible ways - it works just fine, I could be convinced to increase the allowable gradient.

 

The only way I'd be interested in creating a system to provide a refund on resource points would be to introduce a construction system, ie., it takes time to create the items you place, and time to remove items, and again, there are higher priority items.

 

5) It's a neat idea but again I'd probably say no for server performance reasons, as well, any time you talk about AI you get into certain random issues. Like, who will "command" that AI. The only way it would work is if you could spawn a turret already manned with the AI, and then, what happens when you spawn it and the gun falls over, now you have a random AI running around the base. No thanks.

 

6) No way to integrate that with the vanilla spawn mechanics.

[Adshield]

having lights within the logi menu would be very nice as when turns night time you either have to use vehicles to light the area or order boxes of NVGs form vortex.

having AI turrets also would be great to defend the fob from AI.

one time alpha had cleared the FOB and surrounding area, after building the FOB i want clearing mines and IEDs and returned to have a BTR kamysh and an infantry fire team gun me down on my return,

 

if logi is sat at the fob defending it and resuplying it, then its OK, but then alpha will often complain that people are wasting their time by being sat in logi in a FOB 'doing nothing'

[Minipily]

Some more friendly stuff for Logi would be nice to make things easier.

 

A logi pilot could be useful but isn't really that necessary, I find using the vortex's to do the job is simple enough and will limit ground forces to using ground vehicles, thus creating a scenario that isn't always done. I've always been a fan of doing recon and doing some legwork between AO's to occupy my guys while a logi will set up for a FOB or, much like @GrandBravo and @Adshield the other day, completely build one from scratch. This took around 30 minutes in total to create a heavily detailed and defensive FOB to use, time which was still occupied by Alpha because we were issued with recon and a few AO's.

 

Logistical support is usually used by most players as a sort of Mobile MHQ from CTI, only difference is it's not mobile. I usually see people just build a spawn point and a car spawn and then that's it, simple lads. Though this is fine I prefer to sink some detail into the FOB's, giving logi the pleasure of building one up and having supplies manually brought in by Vortex while the rest of the people do an AO or two.

 

I do believe FOB defenses could be pretty fun, I get pretty bored of when someone ASL's and will constantly rush to leave base, sit on a hill watching an AO and shooting it then RTB'ing then rinse and repeat. I much prefer to take my time and let the fun come to me rather than rush out looking for it and paying the price, as buggy as ArmA 3 AI can be, they're still pretty smart in their tactics if their not on a stupidly easy difficulty and I think having to defend the FOB from attacks so we can keep using it would be good. 

 

Ambient AI surely does the job, but usually Ambient AI is limited to a few squads or easier yet, a squad inside a truck making one big soft target. I miss the days when Ambient AI used to throw out armor pieces and cluster-fucks of infantry, really forcing you to either fall back or dig in and fight.

[Johnson]

I'm defiantly against another pilot role, in my opinion two Vortex's at eight players is already stupid, but at least if there is a second Tex he keep busy by assisting Logi.

 

I agree, ambient AI certainly put up a good fight against FOBs, especially in dangerous areas, but instead of hostiles taking over FOBs, is there any way they could just delete the spawnpoint if they manage to get close enough to it so there is actually a reason to defend @Ryko ?

 

I think the most practical way to get some good FOB defense going would be to have some more Zeus action.

[Minipily]

3 hours ago, J0hnson said:

I agree, ambient AI certainly put up a good fight against FOBs, especially in dangerous areas, but instead of hostiles taking over FOBs, is there any way they could just delete the spawnpoint if they manage to get close enough to it so there is actually a reason to defend @Ryko ?

 

This would be interesting, though adding in some form of timer before the spawn point is taken will probably be better so that a hostile civilian or stray enemy doesn't just delete the fob if they wander in.

 

I'm always up for "creating a mission out of no mission" so to speak such as FOB defence, the possibility of such a thing blows all missions out of the park and makes Stilletto golden for endless opportunities.