MNP beeing OP

[Noah_Hero]

@Ryko here you got a few lists of what items beeing OP when compared to the default Combat Fatigues or EVERY other RHS USAF uniform (they all have the same values). Also some feedback about the mod and balancing down at the end of the post.

 

 

NOTES:

• the default Combat Fatigues have a load-capazity of 40 x 9V-Batterys (These are the smallest selectable items) and have a weight of 1.81kg.
• I grouped these uniforms by values of how much more they can carry and how much less their weight is.
• The lists are sorted by how good/OP they are in a descending order.

 

Also an example of how the lists are structured:

Spoiler

'percentage of how the load capazity is compared to the default Combat Fatigues', 'percentage of how the weight is compared ot the Combat Fatigues', 'Protection comparison'

'recommandation on what to do with these items'

('number of max. carryable 9V-Batteries' x 9V, 'weight of the uniform in kg'kg)

 

'Arsenal-name of the uniform' ['item-name of the uniform']

 

 

Lists:

250% load capacity, 25% weight, same protection

These ones got removed!

(100 x 9V, 0,45kg)

 

MNP: 3 Color Desert Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_US3Co_A]

MNP: 3 Color Desert Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_US3Co_B]

MNP: 6-Color Desert Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_US6co_B]

MNP: 6-Color Desert Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_US6co_A]

MNP: ACU Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Ranger_E]

MNP: ACU Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Ranger_C]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues (DMC) [MNP_CombatUniform_ASA_GC2_B]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues (DMC) [MNP_CombatUniform_ASA_GC2]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues (M81) [MNP_CombatUniform_ASA_GC]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues (M81) [MNP_CombatUniform_ASA_GC_B]

MNP: Multicam Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_DS_A]

MNP: Multicam Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_DS_B]

MNP: Multicam Fatigues (Dark) [MNP_CombatUniform_TS_A]

MNP: Multicam Fatigues (Dark) [MNP_CombatUniform_TS_B]

MNP: Scorpion Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Scorpion_A]

MNP: Scorpion Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Scorpion_B]

MNP: Scorpion Combat Fatigues (Ranger) [MNP_CombatUniform_Ranger_A]

MNP: Scorpion Combat Fatigues (Ranger)  [MNP_CombatUniform_Ranger_B]

 

 

250% load, 50% weigt, same protection

These ones got removed!

(100 x 9V, 0.91kg)

 

MNP: Irregular Fatigues (A-TACS) [MNP_CombatUniform_ASA_GC3]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues (A-TACS) [MNP_CombatUniform_ASA_GC3_B]

MNP: Revolutionary Jumper [MNP_CombatUniform_Rebel_A]

MNP: Revolutionary Officer [MNP_CombatUniform_Rebel_B]

 

 

150% load, 50% weight, same protection

still overpowered because still a lot more load while maintaining a lighter weight

(60 x 9V, 0.91kg)

 

MNP: 'Duck' Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Amerc_6]

MNP: 'Duck' Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Amerc_3]

MNP: 3 Color Desert BDU [MNP_CombatUniform_US3Co_Rg]

MNP: 3 Color Desert Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_US3Co]

MNP: 6-Color Desert BDU [MNP_CombatUniform_6CO]

MNP: 6 Color Desert Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_US6co]

MNP: AUSCAM Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Australia]

MNP: AUSCAM Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Australia_S]

MNP: Bush Uniform  [MNP_CombatUniform_Amerc_1]

MNP: Bush Uniform + Lizard [MNP_CombatUniform_Amerc_2]

MNP: DPM Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_DPMR]

MNP: DPM Uniform(Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_DDPMR]

MNP: DPR (Spekter-S - Autumn) [MNP_CombatUniform_DPR_A]

MNP: DPR (Spekter-S - Summer) [MNP_CombatUniform_DPR_B]

MNP: GRANITE-B Fatigues(ROK) [MNP_CombatUniform_ROK_A]

MNP: GRANITE-B Fatigues(ROK) [MNP_CombatUniform_ROK_B]

MNP: IRGC Basij Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_IR_BSJ_Med_B]

MNP: IRGC Basij Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_IR_BSJ_Med]

MNP: IRGC Basij Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_IR_BSJ_A]

MNP: IRGC Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_IR_IRGC_Med_B]

MNP: IRGC Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_IR_IRGC_Med]

MNP: IRGC Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_IR_IRGC_A]

MNP: Israeli Drab Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_ISR]

MNP: KPA Camouflage Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_NKC_Rg]

MNP: KPA Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_NKR_Rg]

MNP: Lizard Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Amerc_4]

MNP: M81 Woodland BDU [MNP_CombatUniform_M81_Rg]

MNP: M81 Woodland Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Wood_B]

MNP: M81 Woodland Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Wood_A]

MNP: M81 Woodland Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_USW]

MNP: Olive Drab BDU  [MNP_CombatUniform_OD_Rg]

MNP: Police Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Police]

MNP: ROKMC Digital Tiger Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_ROKMC]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Airborne) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO3_Rg]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Desert Digital) [MNP_CombatUniform_RU_Med_D]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Desert Digital) [MNP_CombatUniform_RU_Med_DB]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Digital) [MNP_CombatUniform_RU_Med_B]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Digital) [MNP_CombatUniform_RU_Med]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Flora) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO_Rg]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Reed) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO4_Rg]

MNP: Russian Uniform (TTsKO) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO2_Rg]

MNP: Splinter Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Amerc_5]

MNP: T-Pattern Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_USMC_Xtreme]

MNP: Tiger Stripe Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_TIG]

MNP: Type 07 (Artillery) [MNP_CombatUniform_China_J]

MNP: Type 07 (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_China_D]

MNP: Type 07 (Naval) [MNP_CombatUniform_CMAR]

MNP: Type 07 (Police Special Forces) [MNP_CombatUniform_China_SF]

MNP: Type 07 (Universal) [MNP_CombatUniform_China]

MNP: Ukrainian TTskO Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Ukrainian]

MNP: Winter MARPAT Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_USMC_arctic]

MNP: Winter MARPAT Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_USMC_arctic_B]

 

 

125% load, 50% weight, same protection

also still OP because you still can carry more while beeing lighter

(50 x 9V, 0.91kg)

 

MNP: AMCU Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Ranger_E]

MNP: AMCU Uniform [MNP_CombatUniform_Ranger_C]

MNP: CADPAT Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Canada]

MNP: CADPAT Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Canada_S]

MNP: Flecktarn Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Germany_S]

MNP: Flecktarn Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Germany]

MNP: Flecktarn Combat Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Germany_D]

MNP: Flecktarn Combat Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Germany_SD]

MNP: Irish DPM Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Ireland]

MNP: Irish DPM Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Ireland_S]

MNP: Irish DPM Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Ireland_D]

MNP: Irish DPM Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Ireland_DS]

MNP: MARPAT Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_USMC_ST]

MNP: MARPAT Combat Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_USMC_T]

MNP: MARPAT Combat Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_USMC_D]

MNP: MARPAT Combat Fatigues(Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_USMC_SD]

 

 

Same load, 50% weight, same protection

and still way too good because you still have no downsite. You can carry the same amount but you are still just straight up lighter. Please remove

(40 x 9V, 0.91kg)

 

MNP: Rebel Gear (3 Color Desert, Iranian DPM)  [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_DC]

MNP: Rebel Gear (Desert DPM) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_DB]

MNP: Rebel Gear (Desert Jigsaw) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_DA]

MNP: Russian Heavy (Desert Digital) [MNP_CombatUniform_Russia_Heavy_D]

MNP: Russian Heavy (T) [MNP_CombatUniform_Russia_Heavy]

MNP: Type 07 Heavy [MNP_CombatUniform_China_Heavy_T]

MNP: Type 07 Heavy (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_China_Heavy_D]

 

 

175% load, same weight, same protection

you have the same weight and can carry more but this will then increase your weight so it is balanced now, right? No! Just no, because if you tweak your loadout correct, you can put enough in your uniform so you can change to a vest with lesser weight, lesser loading-capacity, that still has the same protection-values. You think it´s not possible? Then look right here:

Spoiler

The best example would be a part of the SPC-series because you can choose between SPC IAR, SPC Machinegunner, SPC light, SPC Crewman and SPC Patcheless wich all offer the maximum-available ballistic-protection (and also super high explosive-protection) while only having different looks and different loading capacities. Therefore you can easily scale down on your weight with these ones when using most MNP-uniforms by simply puttiing stuff in you uniform...

 

An actual example would be if you switch from Combat Fatigues to one of the uniforms below while switching from an SPC Machinegunner to an SPC Light because the uniform switch grants you 30 x 9V more while the vest switch only costs you 20 x 9V. So by doing this and only using the 20 x 9V slots you used before the switch you lost nothing from your inventory but gained a weight advantage while maintaining the same protection.

(70 x 9V, 1.81kg)

 

MNP: CADPAT Combat Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Canada_D]

MNP: CADPAT Combat Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Canada_DS]

 

 

150% load, same weight, same protection

same as above. Please remove.

(60 x 9V, 1.81kg)

 

MNP: 3 Color Desert BDU (Shemag) [MNP_CombatUniform_US3Co_Sh]

MNP: 6-Color Desert BDU (Shemag) [MNP_CombatUniform_6CO_B]

MNP: Czech Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_CZ_A]

MNP: Czech Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_CZ_B]

MNP: Finnish Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Fin_B]

MNP: Finnish Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_Fin_A]

MNP: Finnish Fatigues (arctic) [MNP_CombatUniform_Finarctic_B]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues ( White ) [MNP_CombatUniform_WW_B]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues ( Winter Digital ) [MNP_CombatUniform_WW_C]

MNP: Irregular Fatigues ( Winter M81 ) [MNP_CombatUniform_WW_A]

MNP: KPA Camouflage Uniform (Shemagh) [MNP_CombatUniform_NKC_Sh]

MNP: KPA Uniform (Shemagh) [MNP_CombatUniform_NKR_Sh]

MNP: M81 Woodland BDU (Shemagh) [MNP_CombatUniform_M81_Sh]

MNP: Norwegian  Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_NOR_A]

MNP: Norwegian  Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_NOR_D_A]

MNP: Norwegian Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_NOR_B]

MNP: Norwegian Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_NOR_D_B]

MNP: NZMCU Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_NZ_B]

MNP: NZMCU Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_NZ_A]

MNP: Olive Drab BDU [MNP_CombatUniform_OD_Sh]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Airborne - Shemagh) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO3_Sh]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Flora - Shemagh) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO_Sh]

MNP: Russian Uniform (Reed - Shemagh) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO4_Sh]

MNP: Russian Uniform (TTsKO - Shemagh) [MNP_CombatUniform_RO2_Sh]

MNP: Urban Digital fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_PPU_A]

MNP: Urban Digital Fatigues [MNP_CombatUniform_PPU_B]

 

 

150% load, 142,4% weight, same protection

now it get´s finally better! Not enitrely balanced but I would actually not complain about this one since it is arctic anyways <=> no one uses stuff like that since we don´t have arctic maps

(60 x 9V, 2.72kg)

 

MNP: Finnish Fatigues (arctic) [MNP_CombatUniform_Finarctic_A]

 

 

50% load, 50% weight, same protection

balanced! Can stay!

(20 x 9V, 0.91kg)

 

MNP: Rebel Gear (3 Color Desert, T-Shirt) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_DE]

MNP: Rebel Gear (Desert T-Shirt) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_DF]

 

 

50% load, 190% weight, same protection

unbalanced but in a bad way for the user. So it can stay aswell and if people want to wear them then have fun with these ones. Can stay.

(20 x 9V, 3.63kg)

 

MNP: Rebel Gear (ATACS) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_C]

MNP: Rebel Gear (DPM, T-Shirt) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_F]

MNP: Rebel Gear (ERDL, T-Shirt) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_E]

MNP: Rebel Gear (Tigerstripe) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_A]

MNP: Rebel Gear (Woodland) [MNP_CombatUniform_Militia_B]

 

 

Same load, 238% weight, same protection

completely unbalanced again but still in a (very) bad way for the user. Can stay.

(40 x 9V, 4.54kg)

 

MNP: Russian Heavy (arctic) [MNP_CombatUniform_Russia_arctic]

 

 

 

Feedback on the mod:

So long story short: This mod contains only ONE (1!) balaced uniform, 8 uniforms that are just straight up bad and then a ton of uniforms that are simply OP. The vests are also kind of OP since they mostly offer the protection of the Plate Carrier while having the weight of the Light Plate Carrier but I can oversee that since there are vests that are way better anyways.

So yeah I would actually just recommend removing the entire mod since it is obvious that it is fairly unbalanced when used together with RHS because it is so easy to create OP-loadouts when doing crossovers between the mods and this requires a LOT of blacklisting. And like I showed earlier: it is extremely easy to create a medic that carrys more than 10 liters of fluids, etc. while only using an assault-pack and having the best possible protection-values, an Assault-rifle with 6+1 mags, sidearm, etc, while having a weight of only about 26kg...

 

 

Best regards

Noah

Edited January 13, 2018 by Noah_Hero

[Minipily]

I'm not even fully sure why we have this mod other than the fact Middle Eastern Coalition use the gear.

 

I mean, it's nice to have variety, but I'd rather have good quality variety both in texture and protection rather than ones that look bad and provide too much load/protection.

 

I mean, it's a small mod I understand but obviously it all adds up at the end of the day and people still seem persistent and lowering the repo size so there you go.

 

Anyway good work @Noah_Hero on taking time to review it all, even if no one takes the information handed to them it's good to know the lengths you went to make it possible.

[Johnson]

I completely agree, I have no love for MNP other than ONE SINGLE UNIFORM that I only admire the camouflage for (old Spetesnaz camo), and that's it.

 

Which is precisely the reason why people "want" this mod, because it adds a single uniform that they like, when there's many other vanilla and RHS uniforms to choose from that are way better quality both model and texture-wise. Not to mention their balance and compatibility.

 

I think most people want the mod so they can wear their countries colors. No doubt that removing the mod would also clean the arsenal up quite a bit and provide more uniform consistency between troops.

 

Sure, we'll lose the PLA, but I'm sure there are many other OPFOR mods that use assets we already have, and if not, there's still many other factions to chose from.

 

 

 

I'm almost always up for removing mods like this since I'm a bigger fan of consistency through RHS.

[Johnson]

Maybe we could Poll for its removal. Is that allowed? We could at least see how many people actually want it to remain.

[Noah_Hero]

Also another note: Whoever made this mod isn´t even consistent at all. For example depending on what is printed on your T-Shirt you actually have some weight differences of nearly 3kg aswell

 

 

 

[Minipily]

16 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

Also another note: Whoever made this mod isn´t even consistent at all. For example depending on what is printed on your T-Shirt you actually have some weight differences of nearly 3kg aswell

 

 

 

That must be some high quality fabric to weigh 3kg! It's like my luscious thick hair, heavy enough to be used as a paper weight in a hurricane.

[Amentes]

I'd argue there's no need to entirely remove the mod. If Ryko uses it for his PLA, it could simply be removed from player access, but kept for PLA. This also means it could be used in custom scenarios.

 

As I've said in many other threads before this, I have no problem with repo size myself, nor do I believe that going from 20 to 30 gigs would have a major impact on who chooses to check out AWE and who does not.

 

As such, I see no reason why we can't have a ton of stuff, but I also see no reason why having a mod should be dependent on player use. Having a mod singularly for the benefit of creating new and interesting enemies is, to me, a perfectly good reason.

[Noah_Hero]

10 minutes ago, Amentes said:

I'd argue there's no need to entirely remove the mod. If Ryko uses it for his PLA, it could simply be removed from player access, but kept for PLA. This also means it could be used in custom scenarios.

Well but I‘d argue that we already have 4x RHS that can easily be used to create enemies aswell. So in my opinion the benefit the mod offers is redundant when used for enemies and just straight up unbalanced when usable by players. Also I think it is quite hard to balance us using RHS vs enemies using MNP because of the very different and inconsistent stats whereas the RHS mods offer gear that has way more equal stats. For example is it easier to balance the RHS USAF SPC-Vests with the RHS AFRF gear than with the MNP-gear because AFRF comes with vests that have similar-stats, while MNP does not. Also the Uniforms have the same stats.

[Amentes]

It's certainly a problem if equipment used by the enemy either is OP in a way that means they either can't be killed by our weapons, or that our protective equipment is null and void.

 

Other than that, given that weight and load isn't a concern for the AI enemies, such imbalances can be disregarded.

[Ryko]

That's some amazing work there Noah - I'm sure a lot of time went into that.

 

The mod is currently used to provide MEC and PLA with their distinctive uniforms.  As I understand it none of the uniforms (with the possible exception of the Russian "heavy" uniform, as it's based on the CSAT uniform) provide any ballistic protection.  I'm not a fan of the inconsistencies you clearly point out - to my mind, if a uniform provides more Load (the amount of cargo space it provides) it should weigh more, and it should be a proportional scale across the board. So if you want a uniform with more cargo space, you are punished by additional weight. Of course, you are in a sense already punished, for if you use that additional cargo space, you add more weight due to the additional gear you are carrying.

 

In 036 I've removed the most egregious examples that provide more cargo space for less weight than the standard uniform, but I'm not going to delve super deep into the contents of the arsenal, for as you point out, we'd be left with a single uniform.

 

For the conversation about the size of the repo, the whole MOD weighs 369MB, so it's not making a big dent into the overall size.

[Noah_Hero]

1 hour ago, Ryko said:

That's some amazing work there Noah

Thanks

 

1 hour ago, Ryko said:

As I understand it none of the uniforms (with the possible exception of the Russian "heavy" uniform, as it's based on the CSAT uniform) provide any ballistic protection.

Well actually all Uniforms provide a bit of ballistic as well as explosive protection but it is so less that it`ll just allow for like one 9mm shot more until you die.

 

1 hour ago, Ryko said:

So if you want a uniform with more cargo space, you are punished by additional weight. Of course, you are in a sense already punished, for if you use that additional cargo space, you add more weight due to the additional gear you are carrying.

That is the problem. As I pointed out with an easy example you are not if you combine MNP with RHS:

16 hours ago, Noah_Hero said:

The best example would be a part of the SPC-series because you can choose between SPC IAR, SPC Machinegunner, SPC light, SPC Crewman and SPC Patcheless wich all offer the maximum-available ballistic-protection (and also super high explosive-protection) while only having different looks and different loading capacities. Therefore you can easily scale down on your weight with these ones when using most MNP-uniforms by simply puttiing stuff in you uniform...

 

An actual example would be if you switch from Combat Fatigues to one of the uniforms below (MNP: CADPAT Combat Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Canada_D], MNP: CADPAT Combat Fatigues (Desert) [MNP_CombatUniform_Canada_DS]; both with SAME weight but more loading capacity)while switching from an SPC Machinegunner to an SPC Light because the uniform switch grants you 30 x 9V more while the vest switch only costs you 20 x 9V. So by doing this and only using the 20 x 9V slots you used before the switch you lost nothing from your inventory but gained a weight advantage while maintaining the same protection.

As said this lets you decrease your weight without any disadvantage. Armor is the same, load can be the same but weight is less. If you don´t believe me just try it out.

 

1 hour ago, Ryko said:

In 036 I've removed the most egregious examples that provide more cargo space for less weight than the standard uniform, but I'm not going to delve super deep into the contents of the arsenal, for as you point out, we'd be left with a single uniform.

How about going about it like @Amentes said and removing them entirely for players and only using them for enemies to prevent people "abusing" the above mentioned exploit?

Edited January 11, 2018 by Noah_Hero

[Johnson]

MNP can hang.