AWE and its future

[GamerbugUK]

22 minutes ago, Shadow Knight said:

Now this topic says AW and its future, that's fair enough to say but I'm not giving a hell about AW I mean the EU1 players are going to be none the wiser about this its like what 50-60 people on at a time. (Don't give me an exact number) 

 

Its EU3(AWE) that all of you should be worried about. Most of the old player (Best players) have left AND NO ONE HAS A FUCKING CLUE WHY THEY ARE LEAVING? Argh..

Yep ther are 50-60 people on the public servers nightly, which is considerably more than those on AWE nightly. So what makes AWE so much more important than the other servers, why should anyone who does not play on the AWE server care? It won't stop their fun in the slightest.

 

This issue (whatever it actually is and by many posts it seems to be a bit fuzzy overall) does not relate to everyone, and those who are not touched by it now get to read it and comment on it, by default this topic is asking for that (or else it'd be on the AWE forums).

 

When you say AW's future you mean AWE's future, or you and your fellow AWE players (gaming) future. So I feel vindicated in sticking up for the overall community as I have had a lot of good times on it, but I am happy to say I know nothing about the drama on AWE, but I never cared to read those forums anyway.

 

TLDR; AW is a great place to play and have fun overall, but AWE seems the opposite for whatever reasons - including feeling self entitled.

[Ryko]

Good point Gamerbug, I'll move the post into the AWE subforum.

[GamerbugUK]

16 minutes ago, Ryko said:

Good point Gamerbug, I'll move the post into the AWE subforum.

Cool, in that case I'm out; have fun ya'll

[Stanhope]

On 13-11-2017 at 12:21 AM, Stanhope said:

Now i am aware of one question that got asked tonight in TS.  Whether or not i should be kicked off of AWE.  If anyone comes up to me with a reason why i should, i will voluntarily leave AWE as it is.  I will not play on it in a significant amount of time.  To put an exact timing for at least 3 months.  After that i'll get in touch with the current modded moderator TL and ask his opinion on me joining AWE again.
Now with come up to me in mean in TS and as one player to another.  Because after all that's what i am on AWE, a player.  I'm not an moderator in there, i don't have any rights.  

I'm gonna put this out there again. And in addition say that up until now not a single non-staff member has come to talk to me about any of what's said.  

 

[Guest Bartlett]

Let's face it we can tell you any every frickin way we can..... we sat in a ts channel for 2 nights in a row telling you for over an hour each time and offered suggestions to solve it and now we put it on your forums and you argue the shit out of everything we say..... you have your eyes wide fuckin shut .... bury your head in the sand..... if you haven't figured out and want us to try again then it's tuff.... seems like you want  us standing on our heads singin the frickin makerina while i type with my toes....just read the God damn posts and make your own bullet points I'm not struggling with writing in depth posts anymore

Edited November 14, 2017 by Bartlett
Using a mobile and it posted before I finished

[Ryko]

9 minutes ago, Bartlett said:

offered suggestions to solve it and now we put it on your forums and you argue the shit out of everything we say

 

Things we are doing:

 

1) regular, standing community meetings

2) potential creation of Player-Staff Liaison roles, populated by non-staff players

3) revisions / review to the AWE rules

 

The two nights on TS have led to the first two: the third was already well under way.

 

I'm not arguing, I am trying to figure out what you are saying.  If you think I have my eyes wide shut, with my head buried in the sand, then I don't know what else I can do for you, and I won't continue posting in this thread.

[Guest]

Long as hell post, my issues with AWE in spoiler at the bottom for anyone who doesn't like my novel.

 

I feel that part of the problem with people joining AWE, is it's not very welcoming. People come along, and everyone is there, they all know each other and newer players feel like they are left out, odd ones out if you will. Look at when Johnson got unbanned. Lets not start this up all over again, but he wasn't received well by many people. Some just flat out didn't want him back and didn't try to keep it a secret. Not very welcoming? Is it.

 

Anyway

 

Imagine being a new player coming in and you hear people complaining on your first day about someone who can't team lead properly. It happens a lot, most people do it. So is that new person ever going to team lead? Not if he will be ridiculed like that. This is one of the problems, not welcoming enough. Now people like LEO did try, he would spend hours just on his own with another helping them out. Now he's gone, who will do it. Training got a huge revival a while back, now correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played EU3 in a long time. But as far as I can tell the initiative has ground to a halt, probably because of bigger issues (such as this shit). 

 

When people come here to the forums and post this you need to talk to them. A lot of people here have just said "Your wrong". Credits to Ryko and SkullCollector and some others for actually asking for the issues on a plate, although I feel like they should be obvious by now. 

 

I'm not on anyone's side, I feel like things don't get dealt with enough, but when they do it isn't dealt with correctly and i the right way. However I do also know that staff do discuss things, but many discussions just don't lead anywhere. There needs to be open topics, you say you all discuss it, how are the community meant to know? We report it, you say it gets discussed but thats it. Make a new subforum maybe for issues, so that when it gets discussed and it gets the thumbs up from someone we can actually see in a post where it is addressed. Such as "Someone reported this, we feel it isn't a huge issue however leave comments below and tell us what you think". That way, if 7 moderators were against but 2 were for, it doesn't get left by that. Things shouldn't boil down to JUST moderators decisions, and it is slowly getting better but staff do still need to be more open with the community, a lot of people have no fucking clue what the hell is going on.

Spoiler

Personally why I completely stopped playing EU3 is this:

KEEP IN MIND I HAVEN'T PLAYED IN MONTHS

 

Little teamwork (multiple teamleads go silent, not their fault they aren't cut for the job)

When I first played there were frequent zeus sessions at 7pm GMT for all to join, those have taken a back pedal but they were some of the best nights I've ever had in this community

Many people's attitude I disliked on the server, just my taste in playstyle, so I now play for a different community, no shit talking nothing, just stayed here for EU1 and people I like (However they are disappearing now too)

And there is a lot of people who don't put in the effort to help someone out - mentality off if you dont know how to, then fuck off

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Guest
added issue

[Noah_Hero]

2 hours ago, Teddy said:

I'm not apart of any of that shit, and I don't condone any of that shit. I haven't posted a single insulting avatar/meme/YouTube video, But you know what, damage is done, apparently I'm now apart of them.

Glad to hear that you weren´t involved in said video. Still you where insulting in your topic about Stan and I counted you to these guys since you are friends with them and according to one of them, also timed your post together with them (like when it goes online) and it was even checked for typos by that one... so yeah I´d say it´s fair enough to count you in a group with them. And sorry for these fucked up sentences but it´s kinda hard not to use their names.

 

2 hours ago, Amentes said:

Also, if that is true...

Sadly it is...

[Numbnuts]

3 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

I´d say it´s fair enough to count you in a group with them.

Maybe part of the problem with the community is rather than reading the post and trying to actually do something about the problems you chose rather to try and put everyone into a group so you could better justify getting rid of the people you don't like.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

Glad to hear that you weren´t involved in said video. Still you where insulting in your topic about Stan and I counted you to these guys since you are friends with them and according to one of them, also timed your post together with them (like when it goes online) and it was even checked for typos by that one... so yeah I´d say it´s fair enough to count you in a group with them. And sorry for these fucked up sentences but it´s kinda hard not to use their names.

Instead of saying the same shit over and over again, why don't you stop posting unless your going to actually help solve this problem, you're continuously adding to it, let's actually try to fix it and maybe set everyone right again so that hopefully we don't lose a lot of players, some people want to see this fixed, currently your as bad if not worse than them. Actually try to help sort this out and stop adding to the pile - end of

[Teddy]

14 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

Glad to hear that you weren´t involved in said video. Still you where insulting in your topic about Stan and I counted you to these guys since you are friends with them and according to one of them, also timed your post together with them (like when it goes online) and it was even checked for typos by that one... so yeah I´d say it´s fair enough to count you in a group with them. And sorry for these fucked up sentences but it´s kinda hard not to use their names.

 

The post wasn't timed at all. I written that post at about 3 in the morning because i was sick of people beating around the push (posting memes about AW sinking) instead of posting something that might get the damn ball rolling. The only people who knew about the post was COPEY (who i asked to add/change anything) and then NUMBNUTS who only knew about 10 minutes before the post being live. No one else knew about it unless one of these two passed it around.

 

I'm trying to get shit fixed/changed, yet I'm constantly being labelled the bad guy because i insulted Stan. Insulting Stan or not, there are OTHER real issues.

 

[GhostDragon]

I have not been here for the meetings but I can assure you all that we are talking as staff and looking at the issues raised by the community and deciding as best what routes to take to improve the experience on all our servers. 

 

Now you say these meetings on ts have been productive in you getting your points across and I would say that yesterday we did make some good progress in the routes that outreach can move in terms of increasing the player base on AWE. (i have taken notes and will be pushing them through the relevant channels soon.)

 

 

Now for these threads. I have just read 2 pages and out of all of it there was not one post other than McKillen's that points out the issues that he has had with the server. This makes it hard for me to go back and really put down any notes/suggestions about the way we can move forward in addressing these issues that you have. 

 

Also resorting to insults and attacks on other members of the community or staff team is not the way to go about introducing change, only makes the real issues harder for us to see. 

[Noah_Hero]

1 hour ago, GhostDragon said:

This makes it hard for me to go back and really put down any notes/suggestions about the way we can move forward in addressing these issues that you have.

As far as I can tell one issue that people had was that you never know if someone reported you unless you actually fucked up so hard that you where warned/kicked/banned. Therefore it would be nice if people could see their own user tracking and would get notified even if someone filled out a report about them that was denied.

 

@Ryko already pointed out that your options on that are quite limited because of the forum-software but as a solution I´d recommend that you could just send people  a message if something was added into their user-tracking and what it was and if there was an appeal about them and how it was concluded (even if no action was taken). This also wouldn´t be much more work since you are notifiying the person who filled out the report anyways if it was accepted and action was taken or if it was denied and what the general reasons where. You would just have to write one message, send that to the one who filled the report (as you also do now), copy and paste it and then send it to the person the report was about. This could be something like this:

"Hello,

the player-report about <playername> who seemingly did <whatever said person was reported for> was accepted/denied.

This is because <reasons for the descision>

 

Best regards

<whoever wrote this message>"

 

 

Also it would be nice if people would get a message when something was added into their user-tracking. This could be something like:

"Hello,

your user-tracking has been updated with the following things:

<whatever was updated>

 

Best regards

<whoever wrote this message>"

 

 

This way everyone would be informed about all this hidden usertracking/player-reports stuff and no one had to fear any secret backstabbing since you´d always know what is happening.

 

 

 

I hope this helps you guys

[GhostDragon]

21 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

As far as I can tell one issue that people had was that you never know if someone reported you unless you actually fucked up so hard that you where warned/kicked/banned. Therefore it would be nice if people could see their own user tracking and would get notified even if someone filled out a report about them that was denied.

 

@Ryko already pointed out that your options on that are quite limited because of the forum-software but as a solution I´d recommend that you could just send people  a message if something was added into their user-tracking and what it was and if there was an appeal about them and how it was concluded (even if no action was taken). This also wouldn´t be much more work since you are notifiying the person who filled out the report anyways if it was accepted and action was taken or if it was denied and what the general reasons where. You would just have to write one message, send that to the one who filled the report (as you also do now), copy and paste it and then send it to the person the report was about. This could be something like this:

"Hello,

the player-report about <playername> who seemingly did <whatever said person was reported for> was accepted/denied.

This is because <reasons for the descision>

 

Best regards

<whoever wrote this message>"

 

 

Also it would be nice if people would get a message when something was added into their user-tracking. This could be something like:

"Hello,

your user-tracking has been updated with the following things:

<whatever was updated>

 

Best regards

<whoever wrote this message>"

 

 

This way everyone would be informed about all this hidden usertracking/player-reports stuff and no one had to fear any secret backstabbing since you´d always know what is happening.

 

 

 

I hope this helps you guys

me and the rest of the admin team do always attempt to notify the reported player and discuss the issue with them on Teamspeak to ensure they are aware of the issues that have been raised and will make a note saying the issue has been logged in the UHT. We also then contact the player that filed the report and then let them know what action has been taken. 

[Noah_Hero]

8 minutes ago, GhostDragon said:

me and the rest of the admin team do always attempt to notify the reported player and discuss the issue with them on Teamspeak to ensure they are aware of the issues that have been raised and will make a note saying the issue has been logged in the UHT

Also if the player-report was just simply declined, no action was taken and there was no user-tracking-addition?

[GhostDragon]

17 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

Also if the player-report was just simply declined, no action was taken and there was no user-tracking-addition?

if it is decided no further action will be taken we do not reference it in the future. Meaning it will never look into it further if another issue comes up so it is up to the admin's discretion. 

[Eagle-Eye]

4 hours ago, SkullCollector said:

camps, philosophies or wants and needs.

 

I want a list. Bullet points. No quoting, no name-calling, no pointing fingers unless it's conducive to your argument.

The glory days of old will remain glorious, but there's no chance of them returning if all you do is reminisce and whinge about how they're gone.

As I've mentioned several times before, my opinion is that the main problem on AWE is the different mindsets (casual <=> team-oriented <=> milsim). As such, my suggestion: have a place on AW for everyone, 24/7. Pretty sure you could reel in old-timers who left, or a whole new group of players by doing that.

 

E.g.

EU1: as is, vanilla public casual

EU2: as is, vanilla public casual

EU3: as is, modded public team-oriented

EU6: public milsim, vanilla and/or EU3 modset TBD

 

On EU6, there is room for banter ONLY in between missions. From start of briefing till end of debrief: A-game only, very strict application of hierarchy and rules etc.

EU3 and 6 get dedicated game nights (weekly, bi-weekly or monthly depending on how much AW can muster) with pre-made and/or Zeus missions.

 

There should be no extra development required, except removal of arsenal restrictions. Seeding missions on EU6 could be I&A or Stiletto, depending on modset, as the mindset is what makes the real difference in their execution.

 

 

Second suggestion, for EU3 and 6: Get rid of as many rules as possible, and keep those you keep to the point. KISS-principle, basically, let common sense dictate what can and cannot be allowed, and the mindset should do the rest. E.g. the rules of a milsim-community (2 servers: 1 vanilla, 1 modded) I play on can fit on a half A4. (see spoiler)

Spoiler

Community Rules

• YES

  • Act in a mature and thoughtful manner

  • Treat others with respect for their

    • personal feelings

    • cultural background

      • Point to note, this does not mean we bend to the will of every touchy feely individual. Online gaming requires a certain level of thick skin and sense of humour. If you don't have that, don't play online.

      • If this lack of respect becomes personal though, then we will deal with it.

  • Ingame

    • Play the role you have taken

    • Follow the chain of command

    • Maintain comms discipline

    • Speak up against those infringing the rules

    • Teamplay

• NO

  • Abuse of others.

  • Abuse of your position

  • Actively advertising other communities that offer the same games \ services

  • Cheating or malicious hacks

  • Intentionally cause loss of data, services or work

  • Ingame

    • Selfish, abusive or disruptive behaviour

    • Poor self discipline

    • Intentional or consistent immersion breaking

    • Falsifying a [*redacted*] tag

    • Turning a blind eye to those who break the rules

    • Under aged players (Minimum Age 16)

 

Compare that to AW's ruleset. Even if you look ONLY at the rules for AWE, most of the words used can be omitted and are really only there to fill the page. Because of it, by the time you're halfway through, you've forgotten what you read at the beginning.

To give a few examples:

Rule 5.1 "Use of Teamspeak is mandatory."

=> Of course it is, otherwise you can't use TFAR / ACRE. Put that in a guide called "first connection to AWE", not in the rules.

 

Rule 5.2 "Teamkilling is not allowed"

=> Why do you need the examples, if the list isn't meant to be all-inclusive anyway? Not to mention that on AWE, you should expect players to know why you don't TK in the first place. (remember, common sense ...)

 

Etc.

 

Also, as a side remark, the link to the most up-to-date rule set for AWE sends you here, where the last update was January 25th 2017. However, the topic containing the rules has a different set and layout, but was posted June 22 2017? Which one is current?

 

 

My 2 cents.

[PiranhA]

13 hours ago, Eagle-Eye said:

My 2 cents.

Those 2 cents can become very profitable after a while if done properly.

[Noah_Hero]

18 hours ago, Eagle-Eye said:

Also, as a side remark, the link to the most up-to-date rule set for AWE sends you here, where the last update was January 25th 2017. However, the topic containing the rules has a different set and layout, but was posted June 22 2017? Which one is current?

The update-dates haven´t been updated. Even though @razgriz33 helped making them more equal somewhere around June as well if I recall correctly. But since we are getting a new and way better ruleset anyways I guess we don´t have to care about improving the current old ones anymore.

[GhostDragon]

18 hours ago, Eagle-Eye said:

Also, as a side remark, the link to the most up-to-date rule set for AWE sends you here, where the last update was January 25th 2017. However, the topic containing the rules has a different set and layout, but was posted June 22 2017? Which one is current?

The enhanced rules have not been updated since January, the changes to the forum page only affected the I&A servers. This is why there would seem to be a discrepancy. But both rulesets are up to date. 

[Johnson]

AW (specifically AWE) is in one of the best state it has ever been for years.

 

There might be a lot less players than before, but in almost every other way it is so much better.

[Minipily]

Well that's it lads.

 

I guess AW is dead :((((((

[Vlk]

Well that's it lads.
 
I guess AW is dead (((((

?


Sent from my iPhone using a phone app that is really irritating because it constantly advertises itself.

[Noah_Hero]

2 minutes ago, Vlk said:

?

sarcasm/irony

[Vlk]

Okay


Sent from my iPhone using a phone app that is really irritating because it constantly advertises itself.