rant

[Stanhope]

Right so this topic is gonna be completely ranting about AWE and maybe suggesting some things to change.  This is me talking as a player who plays on AWE.  I'm not a modded moderator and i'm not talking as an admin.  This is in no way shape or form anything official from AhoyWorld.  It's 100% my personal opinion.

First and foremost: people DO NOT listen to orders.  I've played 1 AO today in that time the following things happend.
I told vortex 2 to reslot for the very simple reason that there weren't enough player online to have a vortex 2.  Instead of reslotting they did 5 minutes of i know what before coming to me to complain that there is often a vortex 2 with that amount of people on.  Yes there are absolutely right.  However the ASL or platco present at the time would have, hopefully, explicitly told that vortex that he allowed them to brake said rule.  Me telling them to reslot clearly shows that i will not let you brake set rule.  So don't come whining to me and just pick a different slot.
I also told MAT to take a MAAWS, 15 minutes later i see them running around with a SWAM.  Might not seem like a big deal, and if they would have asked me whether or not they could take a SWAM i wouldn't have made a problem out of it, it's the same thing.  However it pisses me off if you just take something else behind my back.  Later i also sawy said FSG team abuse the weight system by running around with an ammo box.
During that whole AO FSG didn't bother calling me even once over long range.  And yet they managed to engage to my knowledge at least 1 piece of enemy armor.  Last time i check default ROE is to only fire when fired upon.  And also last time i checked FSG should, unless explicitly told to, always be behind alpha.  Take 3 guesses where they were?  In front of alpha without ever hailing me.  When i noticed this i told them to stay behind alpha and engage any armor that threatened alpha.  Not that this was after they already killed stuff.
Another thing, vortex was on every drop asking if he could do CAS.  I believe it's specifically mentioned in the rules that you can only do this at the briefing.  And at the briefing i told him to get in a CAS bird that was also capable of transport and that i'd tell him when he needed to go back to base to pick reinserts up.  Every time he asked if he could stay and do CAS instead of simply asking what he needed to do.
And what maybe annoyed me to most, i was giving orders to alpha 1 to advance while alpha 2 covered them.  It took 5 minutes before alpha 1, well only the acting TL, managed to move to the position i told them to.  Which was 15m away.  If there is any reason why you can't advance just let ASL know.  People always complain how parts of the plan aren't clear and how SLs have to give more info.  But that's a 2 way street, info needs to go both down and up.  If you don't tell me why you can't advance i'm gonna presume that there is no viable reason.
Also if i tell Alpha 1 to advance i don't mean alpha 1-1 i mean the entire bloody alpha 1 team.  If you can't get you team to follow you i suggest to next time not take the TL role and attend a training session about team leading or stay close to your TL and ask for some tips and tricks.

And then one final thing i want to rant about: in the last few days i've submitted more player reports/day on people on enhanced than i've ever done on any of the public servers.  From all those player reports i've heard back that something has happend.  Not that i didn't provide enough evidence or that what i reported wasn't something that didn't need any moderator attention.

Final thing i want to say:  No i am not perfect.  I'm not even in the same solar system  as perfect.  But talking trash about me behind my back isn't gonna help me improve at being ASL at all.  And if you talk trash about me behind my back, make sure i cannot hear it.

 

/end rant

[Minipily]

I was Vortex 2 at the time. Don't accuse me of ranting please

 

I joined the role as I saw a sufficient set of people online however I was unfamiliar with the rule behind ASL or PlatCo approving it, so I came over to you and asked you if you wanted a second pilot. You then proceeded to tell me the rules which I was at least half if not 3/4 familiar with already and told me to reslot, which I happily did. I only acted surprised at first at the rule because every other time I have played on EU3, it's usually been okay to go Vortex 2 even if we are missing 1 or 2 people. I suppose it was just the first time I had heard that part of the rule being enforced as it has never been enforced in the vicinity of my ears. It's just down to the fact that we hardly ever get enough players on to actually reach Vortex 2 levels, if anything that reason alone just made me a little surprised when it was enforced. I don't remember any shouting on my end, only a calm "okey dokey."

 

Overall though I can imagine the pain, ASL isn't as straight forward as it once was. Overall it just sounds like a lack of communication and believe me, good comms still isn't gunna ensure that someone will listen all the time. I find that there is usually a fine line between friendly gaming environment camaraderie and full on tinnitus inducing shouting. People may not hear the first, second or even the third time clearly if you calmly and happily ask them to do something, particularly in a loud ass battlefield. But people also seem to not be able to take it on the chin so much if you shout an order at them in a snarly voice sort of way, I guess some folk just don't like the shouting and might decide "fuck you" if you order them that way.

 

Shit happens, there's good days and there's bad days on EU3, at least that is how I find it, your experience may differ™

[BorderLive]

I was FSG Squad Lead at the time.

 

With the weapons system, My Specialist misheard you and had taken a SMAW, I did not find this out until I got into the AO and had managed to regroup with him as I was having issues with my game.

 

Secondly, The reason FSG couldn't contact you on long range was because they didn't have one, As again, My game was having issues so I had to restart so was not there.

 

As for the vehicle being destroyed, To my knowledge it was engaging Alpha and my Specialist had taken it out to save lives. This is also why Alpha was not able to push ahead of us as they were constantly in contact by either Infantry, Motorised or Mortars.

 

As for the weight issue, We had nothing to move the ammo box around, so we had to carry it instead of leaving it in the church.

 

This is from my point of view what had happened in this situation.

[Stanhope]

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

I joined the role as I saw a sufficient set of people online [...] usually been okay to go Vortex 2 even if we are missing 1 or 2 people.

At the time vortex 2 radioed in to me we had exactly 13 infantry.  This explicitly says "Vortex 2 team requires 16 infantry".  

 

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

so I came over to you and asked you if you wanted a second pilot.

Strange i was in the field at the time.  Someone of vortex 2 radioed in to me but because of range couldn't make out what i said so he send me a Ctab message.  I replied with this message:

Later a mortar hit my head and when i respawned you came up to me asking me about things.

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

You then proceeded to tell me the rules which I was at least half if not 3/4 familiar with already and told me to reslot

The conversation between you and me:
You: "What role do you want us in?"
Me: "I don't know just something you can be in according to the rules"

You: "I mean, there has been vortex 2 plenty times when alpha is full, I think it's supposed to say 16 ground infantry"
Me: "Yes and that was with permission of ASL"

You "Alright [inaudible on my recording]"
Me "And i'm not giving that"
Then you proceeded to ask either me or raz, i can't tell from the recording, which slot you need to go in.

Tell me, which rules did i tell you about?

Now something else, not directly related to this incident: if ASL/PlatCo has the power to tell people it's okay to be in a certain slot even if the rules say it's not, it only seems logical that the opposite (ASL tell you to reslot even if it's okay according to the rules) is also true.
 

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

I don't remember any shouting on my end

Where did i say in my original post that there was any shooting involved?  I don't have any on recording.

 

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

People may not hear the first, second or even the third time clearly if you calmly and happily ask them to do something, particularly in a loud ass battlefield.

Which doesn't apply to this situation as alpha 1 eventually did do what i asked them to.  So clearly they must have heard the order right?

 

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

But people also seem to not be able to take it on the chin so much if you shout an order at them in a snarly voice sort of way

Word for word the order i gave to alpha 1:
(what happend before: we got mortar smoke on our pos, we moved away from it, after running for a bit we changed direction to some elephant grass and a ditch, we stopped in this ditch.  After having observed the situation i told this order over the radio:)
"Right, alpha 1 head North-East to that wall.  Alpha 2 cover them" 
At the time we were taking 1-2 snaps every 1-2 seconds.  Not really the heat of battle right?
 

9 hours ago, Minipily said:

I guess some folk just don't like the shouting and might decide "fuck you" if you order them that way.

Again quote me where i said i did or show me the recording of me doing it.

 

You weren't even on the server when this happend.  If you want to make me look bad at least make sure you're not making things up.  There is plenty of stuff out there that show me fucking up big time.  And as i said in my original post:

11 hours ago, Stanhope said:

No i am not perfect.  I'm not even in the same solar system as perfect.

 

8 hours ago, BorderLive said:

With the weapons system, My Specialist misheard you and had taken a SMAW

No, no he didn't.  He knowingly took the SMAW even though i told him to take the MAAWS.  Again wouldn't be a problem if someone, anyone asked me.  It's more the principal.
 

8 hours ago, BorderLive said:

Secondly, The reason FSG couldn't contact you on long range was because they didn't have one

Yet i managed to reach you on LR.  So you must have had one right?

 

8 hours ago, BorderLive said:

To my knowledge it was engaging Alpha and my Specialist had taken it out to save lives.

Fine then i guess.  I didn't know this because i didn't even knew we had FSG in the AO till a saw someone running around with a SMAW.
 

8 hours ago, BorderLive said:

As for the weight issue, We had nothing to move the ammo box around, so we had to carry it instead of leaving it in the church.

Why was there an ammo box to begin with?  The briefing said: 1x MBT, 1x IFV/APC, 1x technical.  Alpha had 2 LATs and presumably some other alpha members have something that's AT capabil.  So what were you planning to kill?  

And what i meant wit abusing the weight system is running around - and i mean running, not walking - with an amount of gear that otherwise would force you to walk.
 

A lot of people know probably want to see that recording.  You ain't getting it.  Why?  For the very simple reason that it contains IPs and GUIDs of people on EU1.  And i will not share this information with people that shouldn't have access to this.  If you really want to know whether or not i'm telling the truth, pick an AW admin of your choice and i'll send that person the recording.  So they can review it and confirm or debunk what i said.
(Why do i have those IPs and GUIDs?  I'm still a public moderator and i don't stop being that when i join AWE.  I ALWAYS have my admin tools open when i'm behind my PC.  And if they ping me i WILL look into why it pinged me.  As far as i know there could be a script kid f*ing up the server at that moment in time)

And next time anyone wants to accuse me of something either have your own recording proving it or at least make sure i don't have one.


After reviewing my recording and rereading the original post i realized that i left out something:
I shouldn't be possible that we have to use 3 AT launchers on a static MBT 100 meters away that is showing it's ass to us and is not shooting.  That should take exactly 1 launcher. 

[Ryko]

2 hours ago, Stanhope said:

I shouldn't be possible that we have to use 3 AT launchers on a static MBT 100 meters away that is showing it's ass to us and is not shooting.  That should take exactly 1 launcher. 

And yet, Arma can be Arma, especially with the way RHS models armor.  But yes, one should do it.

 

What I'd mention in this post is that people have to remember that one of the core rules is to follow chain of command, this game only works if we are working together and following rules to complete a plan.  Being in command is hard enough and going off to do your own thing might be more exciting, but ultimately puts everyone at risk and can make it less fun for everyone.

[BorderLive]

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Yet i managed to reach you on LR.  So you must have had one right?

You probably was able to contact me when I got back into the server after 10 minutes of me joining and rejoining due to ACE.

 

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

No, no he didn't.  He knowingly took the SMAW even though i told him to take the MAAWS.  Again wouldn't be a problem if someone, anyone asked me.  It's more the principal.

When I got into the AO, I saw my specialist using the SMAW, I asked him and he said that he heard you say to take it. I then said that you asked for the MAAWS and left it at that. The two do sound very familiar.

[razgriz33]

Stan's made valid points,

 

Let's read what's here and try to self reflect on it.

[SiegeSix]

2 hours ago, razgriz33 said:

Let's read what's here and try to self reflect on it.

I'm standing behind this guy :-)

[Minipily]

I don't use a LR when on the ground nor do I use a CTAB as pilot so I neither got a CTAB message from you nor called in, I believe you may have been talking to Jochem before your demise or perhaps another person earlier on in the session as I swore I could've joined when there was roughly 16-17 players in total, perhaps a few people may have left just after me joining while I was trying to have Jochem contact you or while I was talking face to face.

 

The rules that you stated to me was that Alpha/PlatCo needed to give permission, which I wasn't fully familiar with at the time seeing as such a rule had never been enforced in my ears and I hadn't remembered that from the rule set it seems. I was familiar with the players needed and from the last time I checked it checked out, but I doubled checked with you and you said you didnt want me in the role. I calmly responded and asked you and Raz who was standing behind us what kind of role you wanted me and Jochem in just to double check and eventually we went into Bravo I believe before the server eventually keeled over.

 

You may have never specifically stated there was shouting, but in your post above you did say "So don't come whining to me and just pick a different slot." Which I didn't do and only asked you what you would like from me before we eventually switched. 

 

"Which doesn't apply to this situation as alpha 1 eventually did do what i asked them to.  So clearly they must have heard the order right?" - Sure, I was only saying that things can go wrong in a loud environment is all but I wasn't there so I wasn't directly linking to this event, just saying that it can happen.

7 hours ago, Stanhope said:

17 hours ago, Minipily said:

I guess some folk just don't like the shouting and might decide "fuck you" if you order them that way.

Again quote me where i said i did or show me the recording of me doing it.

 

You weren't even on the server when this happend.  If you want to make me look bad at least make sure you're not making things up.  There is plenty of stuff out there that show me fucking up big time.

Never said you did this, I can only see something that always happens with me happening in this post and that is the magical word of the day, "misunderstanding." I'm just stating that sometimes people might THINK "gahhhh fuck oooofff" when you shout an order (which kinda needs to be done in a war), some folk can't take it on the chin and it's kind of an issue that I've experienced on the server a few times. But I was never directly linking to this event, you just seem to be misunderstanding me is all, which constantly seems to happen with me.

 

Yeah sure I wasn't on, never said I was linking to this exact moment, just talking about what CAN happen sometimes and thought that this situation sounded a lot like my past experiences, hence why I said that I feel your pain.

 

I'm not trying to make you look bad, you misunderstood me then proceeded to post some stuff which kinda makes me look like the bad guy, which believe me, with my current reputation it wont take much fucking work so I am trying my best to just try and explain as many misunderstanding as possible.

 

Overall, I joined the game late, saw about 16-17 people on when I joined in, thought, "Hmmm, perhaps Vortex 2 might be good seeing as Alpha is somewhat full anyway". Joined that role, tried to have Jochem contact you, by the time I was up and about I saw you died and came over and from there, we talked and I switched. Of course while I was coming over to you or while talking to you some people may have left and made Vortex 2 an impossible role anyway, but I didn't know because I didn't check, but it was sorted out between us anyway and that's what matters. Worst things have happened.

 

And yes, like Raz said, I can respect why you've made these points and such. I don't have any issues here and I'm happy to accept any mistakes on my end, I just don't like it that much when what I have done or said has been taken the wrong way and made me look like a jackass.

[Stanhope]

First of all, i didn't start any name calling.  I didn't set out to make anyone look bad.  I made sure to not get anyone's name in any of my posts as long as i wasn't replying to that person.  Can be seen by the lack of anyone's name in the original post and the black boxes over the names in the screenshot.

 

32 minutes ago, Minipily said:

I swore I could've joined when there was roughly 16-17 players in total, perhaps a few people may have left just after me joining while I was trying to have Jochem contact you or while I was talking face to face.

Between you joining and we talking exactly 1 person left, less than a minute after you connecting to the server. So i don't think you were fully loaded in yet before he left.  And the rule reads 16 infantry, not 16 players.

 

33 minutes ago, Minipily said:

The rules that you stated to me was that Alpha/PlatCo needed to give permission, which I wasn't fully familiar with at the time seeing as such a rule had never been enforced in my ears and I hadn't remembered that from the rule set it seems.

I can't enforce rules on AWE.  And what i posted before is my take on the rules.  As stated in the original post:

19 hours ago, Stanhope said:

This is me talking as a player who plays on AWE.  I'm not a modded moderator and i'm not talking as an admin.  This is in no way shape or form anything official from AhoyWorld.  It's 100% my personal opinion.

 

37 minutes ago, Minipily said:

"So don't come whining to me and just pick a different slot." Which I didn't do and only asked you what you would like from me before we eventually switched. 

It's how i perceived it.  It might not have been your intention but the Ctab message was pretty clear wasn't it?
 

38 minutes ago, Minipily said:

"Which doesn't apply to this situation as alpha 1 eventually did do what i asked them to.  So clearly they must have heard the order right?" - Sure, I was only saying that things can go wrong in a loud environment is all but I wasn't there so I wasn't directly linking to this event, just saying that it can happen.

You should've been more clear on that.  People might not read it that way and that might lead to misunderstandings.

 

41 minutes ago, Minipily said:

with my current reputation 

That's not my fault right?

 

43 minutes ago, Minipily said:

I just don't like it that much when what I have done or said has been taken the wrong way and made me look like a jackass.

I didn't mention your name anywhere before you reacted right?
 

44 minutes ago, Minipily said:

just saying that it can happen.

I didn't make a rant about what could happen.  I made a rant about what happend.

 

[Minipily]

Very well, it is what it is.

[Guest]

Can we all not just get along for once in our lives? Why is there a need to make a rant and involve the entire forums? If you have an issue with the way players acted, then tell them. We're all old enough here to deal with it are we not? So lets all just get along, stop the ranting which scares players off, and hug.

[Vlk]

I feel you, been there myself, but People will be people, how much energy I want to put down in order to set things straight, is up to the individual. For newcomers reading this thread, this ain't everyday struggles. The players make the awe experience no matter what the rules are. Sometimes it's a good composition, other times not that much.


Sent from my iPhone using a phone app that is really irritating because it constantly advertises itself.

[Minipily]

4 hours ago, McKillen said:

Can we all not just get along for once in our lives? Why is there a need to make a rant and involve the entire forums? If you have an issue with the way players acted, then tell them. We're all old enough here to deal with it are we not? So lets all just get along, stop the ranting which scares players off, and hug.

 

/thread

 

This is a recurring problem and I myself have stated that there has always been an urge for people to "one-up" each other, stabbing people in the back in the process of possibly trying to climb the reputation ladder. But it is what it is, though I can understand Stan's frustration.