TVT Return?

[Johnson]

A long while ago EU#3 players were treated to some pretty interesting Team VS Team scenarios in the small town of Dolina (Chernarus), Russian defenders against US Army invaders made for some incredible moments.

 

I will never forget ambushing a team of Americans as they pushed into the town, lighting them up with a PKM as @Minipily spotted for me in the pitch black night.

 

I was curious to see if anyone would be interest in the return of TVT nights, or if it's an uninteresting possibility. Gear was always limited as the missions lacked an arsenal but that is so much funner than having people running around with custom-built Iron Man loadouts.

 

TVT nights were always gritty, brutal and extremely enjoyable and I would personally love for their return (which I would gladly assist with building, if permitted).

 

[Miczils]

You may not know, tvt nights were here, until, approximately 2 weeks ago a decision was made to stop them because most of the community didn't enjoy TvT. I myself love the idea, and I recall some really great tvt missions, the infantry but also armored warfare ones. But well, I don't think they will come back, most of arma players don't actually like PvP because of the clunkyness and desync in Arma, I don't see much of it as a problem but maybe I've just been lucky.

 

 

 

 

[Ryko]

I personally enjoy TvT, but as the results of the last few weeks of strawpolls showed, as well as the disconnection of a majority of players when we did move to TvT, it wasn't worth it to continue.

[Johnson]

17 minutes ago, Ryko said:

I personally enjoy TvT, but as the results of the last few weeks of strawpolls showed, as well as the disconnection of a majority of players when we did move to TvT, it wasn't worth it to continue.

Hmm strange how people would want to move away from PVP. I suppose we can see how people respond to this post, would be nice to hear some reasons from both sides (people who want it and people who don't)

[BloodInTheSand]

I also personally very much enjoy TvT, but have found it to be quite imbalanced the last few times it's been run. One side is always drastically under or overpowered, with the blufor side often having high caliber weapons and strong body armour, with the opfor side having very little in the way of armour and exploding at the mere sight of a bullet.

I'd love to play tvt again, but feel it needs some balancing changes before it'll be fun rather than frustrating.

[Noah_Hero]

42 minutes ago, J0hnson said:

would be nice to hear some reasons from both sides

The main reason I don´t like Arma as a PVP game is because it never feels very balanced to me. So if we´d be playing with balanced weapons on a very balanced map a balanced game mode I´d be totally on your side. But balancing out US and Russia seems to be pretty hard as well as playing a balanced game mode.

So I´d recommend playing with the same weapons and just Teamdeathmatch because it is the easiest mode to balance and all that on some flat field with placed cover because a city usually favours campers because of way too many angles to cover. But everything above that seems not to be competetive at all to me but instead always favours one side.

[Vlk]

Limit to iron sights or play smarter as the lesser technology faction

[Johnson]

19 minutes ago, Vlk said:

Limit to iron sights or play smarter as the lesser technology faction

That is how the old TVT used to be I believe. If I were to make a TVT mission (which I am fairly looking forward to doing) I would certainly keep it to iron sights only.

[Johnson]

26 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

The main reason I don´t like Arma as a PVP game is because it never feels very balanced to me. So if we´d be playing with balanced weapons on a very balanced map a balanced game mode I´d be totally on your side. But balancing out US and Russia seems to be pretty hard as well as playing a balanced game mode.

So I´d recommend playing with the same weapons and just Teamdeathmatch because it is the easiest mode to balance and all that on some flat field with placed cover because a city usually favours campers because of way too many angles to cover. But everything above that seems not to be competetive at all to me but instead always favours one side.

I don't believe you had the chance to play the old TVT Noah, but back then the mission was very well balanced. If I were to make a mission, balance would certainly be my main priority.

 

Players will be rewarded through advanced, organised tactics and teamwork, rather than through superior technology.

 

My plan was to do modern Russians (MSV or VDV) vs USMC (since their tech is inferior to the US Army) OR dial it back to around the early 2000s with the same factions (that way, the limited tech on both sides would be very realistic).

 

Either way, balanced can be achieved realistically, as the two nations today are fairly well matched. Regardless I can ensure fairness.

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, Miczils said:

You may not know, tvt nights were here, until, approximately 2 weeks ago a decision was made to stop them because most of the community didn't enjoy TvT. I myself love the idea, and I recall some really great tvt missions, the infantry but also armored warfare ones. But well, I don't think they will come back, most of arma players don't actually like PvP because of the clunkyness and desync in Arma, I don't see much of it as a problem but maybe I've just been lucky.

 

 

 

 

I think that, if done right and coherently, TVT should be able to avoid the majority of problems that cause players to refrain from playing.

[Miczils]

I think that, if done right and coherently, TVT should be able to avoid the majority of problems that cause players to refrain from playing.

I agree completely, problem is, we have tried pretty much everything, the polls and just opinions in the community still show that people simply don't like TvT, Im really surprised myself but it was pretty much every thursday that a half of the server, or even more would quit as TvT started.

Sent from my SM-G935F using a phone app that is really irritating because it constantly advertises itself.

[Johnson]

Just now, Miczils said:

I agree completely, problem is, we have tried pretty much everything, the polls and just opinions in the community still show that people simply don't like TvT, Im really surprised myself but it was pretty much every thursday that a half of the server, or even more would quit as TvT started.

Sent from my SM-G935F using a phone app that is really irritating because it constantly advertises itself.
 

We'll I'm willing to try again since I was not able to experience this myself. Of course I don't doubt your statement, I simply wish to give it my own attempt.

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, BloodInTheSand said:

I also personally very much enjoy TvT, but have found it to be quite imbalanced the last few times it's been run. One side is always drastically under or overpowered, with the blufor side often having high caliber weapons and strong body armour, with the opfor side having very little in the way of armour and exploding at the mere sight of a bullet.

I'd love to play tvt again, but feel it needs some balancing changes before it'll be fun rather than frustrating.

I think my response to Noah helps with this too. As for high caliber weaponry and overpowered gear, this can absolutely be solved through custom loadouts (which I love building)

[kman]

Can the server enforce that people can't turn off grass? Since that is major problem in PVP.

[Noah_Hero]

1 hour ago, J0hnson said:

don't believe you had the chance to play the old TVT Noah, but back then the mission was very well balanced.

Nope, I weren´t here back then.

1 hour ago, J0hnson said:

If I were to make a mission, balance would certainly be my main priority.

 

Players will be rewarded through advanced, organised tactics and teamwork, rather than through superior technology.

 

My plan was to do modern Russians (MSV or VDV) vs USMC (since their tech is inferior to the US Army) OR dial it back to around the early 2000s with the same factions (that way, the limited tech on both sides would be very realistic).

Sounds like a plan but I would definitly like to see the exact same gear on both sides. Can be easily done with killochs military pack that we have on the server: everything has the same stats but just a different texture on it. This ensures that everything comes down to pure skill wich is the most important point of every pvp-game in my opinion.

[Johnson]

32 minutes ago, Noah_Hero said:

Sounds like a plan but I would definitly like to see the exact same gear on both sides. Can be easily done with killochs military pack that we have on the server: everything has the same stats but just a different texture on it. This ensures that everything comes down to pure skill wich is the most important point of every pvp-game in my opinion.

Hmm an interesting idea indeed. But you can easily match and balance gear through simple RHS weaponry and gear.

For example, your standard Russian infantryman will not use optics on his rifle, but I'd be impressed to find an American soldier without one (Marines included ) . HOWEVER in urban or generally more close-quarter enviornments, the USAF commonly use their standard carryhandle or PIP iron sights.

 

Furthermore, as I stated in previous replies, if the setting was around the early 2000s, Russia would't change much in their gear than today, however the USAF (especially the USMC) would greatly lack certain benefits, most importantly RCOs. It is for this reason that if I were to create a TVT mission I would base it around this period, where both superpowers are very well balanced infantry-wise (and it will satisfy my lust for contextual accuracy, which I'm sure you'll appreciate Noah )

[Noah_Hero]

11 hours ago, J0hnson said:

Hmm an interesting idea indeed. But you can easily match and balance gear through simple RHS weaponry and gear.

For example, your standard Russian infantryman will not use optics on his rifle, but I'd be impressed to find an American soldier without one (Marines included ) . HOWEVER in urban or generally more close-quarter enviornments, the USAF commonly use their standard carryhandle or PIP iron sights.

 

Furthermore, as I stated in previous replies, if the setting was around the early 2000s, Russia would't change much in their gear than today, however the USAF (especially the USMC) would greatly lack certain benefits, most importantly RCOs. It is for this reason that if I were to create a TVT mission I would base it around this period, where both superpowers are very well balanced infantry-wise (and it will satisfy my lust for contextual accuracy, which I'm sure you'll appreciate Noah )

I never really looked much into the stats of the russian weapons but if you´d say that there is an M4 equivalent weapon (like in dps) then I´m totally on your side! But still I would really recommend the vests/helmets from killochs to ensure same hitboxes and hitpoints to keep things as fair as possible (because I´d say it´ll be reallly frustrating if you shoot a guy with an SPCS vest in the (uncovered neck) but he isn´t dying because of a poorly modeled hitbox).

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, Noah_Hero said:

I never really looked much into the stats of the russian weapons but if you´d say that there is an M4 equivalent weapon (like in dps) then I´m totally on your side! But still I would really recommend the vests/helmets from killochs to ensure same hitboxes and hitpoints to keep things as fair as possible (because I´d say it´ll be reallly frustrating if you shoot a guy with an SPCS vest in the (uncovered neck) but he isn´t dying because of a poorly modeled hitbox).

RHS hitboxes should be very accurate, I've never had a problem with them before. SPCs and Russian vests should be fine. As for the AR-15s and AKs, the M4 and the AK74M are very well matched rifles, especially if you know a lot about the ammunition types, which I can safely say I do.

[Noah_Hero]

1 minute ago, J0hnson said:

RHS hitboxes should be very accurate

Well then you should definitly check out the SPCS (OCP/UCP) vests They have the same hitbox as every other OCP/UCP vest while beeing way smaller => they offer protection on places where there is just no vest

4 minutes ago, J0hnson said:

As for the AR-15s and AKs, the M4 and the AK74M are very well matched rifles, especially if you know a lot about the ammunition types, which I can safely say I do.

Then I´ll hope you speak the truth and it´ll actually be competitive and not unbalanced AF

[Johnson]

1 minute ago, Noah_Hero said:

Then I´ll hope you speak the truth and it´ll actually be competitive and not unbalanced AF

I don't intend to disappoint.

[Karate Pyjamas]

I quit TvT games ages ago, I tried Squad a few weeks back and got instantly annoyed. So I will definitely not be playing them. I have an interesting "game mode" laying around for TvT which I would gladly host though.

 

But truly, it's me. Not the creativity of others.

[Colsta]

I favor PvE over PvP. I find the former much more enjoyable. I personally play EU3 for the co-op component.

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, Karate Pyjamas said:

I quit TvT games ages ago, I tried Squad a few weeks back and got instantly annoyed. So I will definitely not be playing them. I have an interesting "game mode" laying around for TvT which I would gladly host though.

 

But truly, it's me. Not the creativity of others.

Fair enough, but the TVT I intend more resembles that of teamwork and coherence rather than brute strength.

[Johnson]

28 minutes ago, Colsta said:

I favor PvE over PvP. I find the former much more enjoyable. I personally play EU3 for the co-op component.

Understandable, but as I said to Karate, if I made any TVT, it would revolve massively around more coherence and teamwork-coordination. The old Dolina was fun, but it was too simple for some. My own would be more of a 'campaign' based mission, with progressive 'push and pull' battles.

 

My own project would resemble more so to Gauntlet than Dolina TVT; one team may go from the defensive to the offensive in seconds, its all progressive.

[Stanhope]

Nothing stops anyone from making a PvP game-night.  If it goes extremely well and a lot of people show interest in playing it again and again and again it might become a weekly thing.