TK Penalty

[shuenix]

Yesterday, Saturday it seems that it was officiel TK day. There was a lot of team kills. Some of them was on purpose, no doubt about that. I was ready to leave the server, but I found an admin he made a kick and it helped. But later, about midnight, it was going on again. 

Is it possible to make a system, that punishes the player when TK'ing? 

I am really fed up buy those idi... who is running around with the only purpose to ruin it for other players. 


Shuenix

 

 

P.S.

I accidental TK'ed yesterday and even that it wasn't on purpose, I will take a punishment.

Edited August 6, 2017 by shuenix
Extra

[S0zi0p4th]

10 minutes ago, McKillen said:

The problem is thatif somebody accidentally kills a squad of people that he thought were enemy, perhaps because he was in thermal, he will end up with 6 TKs.

which still qualifies as intentional team killing  your responsible when using thermals to ID your targets 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, shuenix said:

Is it possible to make a system, that punishes the player when TK'ing?

A system like this has been thought of before by a few people. The only flaw with it is that whenever a pilot crashes/gets shot down, the people inside his helicopter that die count as a team kill, which I'm sure you've noticed. Another issue would be that there is no way for such a system to identify against the friendly fire that is accidental and purposeful. Currently the best thing to do is to screenshot or record the player doing the team kill and then make a player report against them.

[ansin11]

Filtering out pilot TKs shouldn't be too much of an issue because you can just check if the killer was a pilot. The pilot slots would obviously be a backdoor for unpunished TKing as far as the script is concerned, but then again, staff visits the servers on a daily basis to solve pilot (competency) issues.

[Stanhope]

8 hours ago, shuenix said:

Is it possible to make a system, that punishes the player when TK'ing? 

Technically?  Yes.  Practically?  I'm gonna have to say no, i'll get back on why in a second.  
For now your best option is to either contact an admin.  You can either do this by going onto teamspeak and finding someone with the admin tags or by typing !admin followed by the message you want to send to the admin in chat.  (Pls refrain from just typing !admin because then we have to ask what you need, if you immediately type what you need we can act quicker). Or if you cannot find an admin record the TKer, or simply take multiple screenshots.  And send those in via ahoyworld.net/pr.  If an admin deals with the situation he'll often ask to send in screenshots/video either way because then he might be able to transform that kick into a ban.  

Now to get back on punishing TKers:
Yes it is technically possible however setting up a system that only punishes the people that deserve punishing and works correctly 99.99% of the time is next to impossible.  This not only because derp revive, the system we use for both the revive and the TK messages is far from perfect and shows bugs more than we'd like to see.  But also because it's practically impossible to determine which ones were honest mistakes and which ones were intentional.
Sure we can detect whether or not someone is killing everyone in a FOB but that doesn't help us out in the AO.  We can also not use the amount of TKs as pilots can crash, killing up to half the server's population and someone can walk up to someone sniping on a hill and execute him at point blank range.  And building an exception in for pilots will soon get noticed and people will just hop in a pilot slot and start TKing that way.  
We've seen that TKers will find a way to TK, it's an unfortunate truth.  People that have been around a while will probably remember that in I&A 2 and in the early versions of I&A 3 it wasn't unusual for someone to grab a hunter GMG and start killing everyone in spawn.  We've build in a safe zone that deletes projectiles the second they get fired in base.  But mass TKs still happen.  Now those people just take a ride with a heli and blow it up the second it lands.

Don't get me wrong we highly appreciate any and all suggestions on how to reduce teamkillers.  Thing is that this one is, unfortunately, impractical.  But by all means keep the ideas coming!
Stan

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, ansin11 said:

just check if the killer was a pilot.

Then you also have the problem of what happens if a player accidentally kills multiple people at one time? (Does happen, done it myself once) The problem is thatif somebody accidentally kills a squad of people that he thought were enemy, perhaps because he was in thermal, he will end up with 6 TKs. With this sort of system that would be thought of as a serious offence, and they would be kicked, or maybe even temp banned. Then they would have to make an appeal and get unbanned etc. The system just wouldn't work out including other issues such as derp revive which is the system used to allow players to revive etc.

[ansin11]

Allow two teamkills and don't leave banning to a script lol. I never suggested that. Just kick them, show some hintC or move them into a random OPFOR AI, what do I know.

What issues does an EventHandler have with derp revive?

 

I also don't see why you wouldn't run such code simply because it cannot solve all cases. That would require some advanced AI and certainly nothing Arma commands / functions can perform. Of course people always find a way to do what they want to do, but if a script keeps somebody from TKing even one more player per day then running that script is worth it. I mean it's not like the script is gonna do the staff's job, it should just provide an automated response to certain events. And sure, if someone hops into a pilot slot just to TK that'll still be the exact same as if he did that in the current state of I&A.

[Eagle-Eye]

Could you try a "TK = TK'er setDamage 1" mindset?

 

Will it be disruptive? Yes, but that's the point. There would also be no requirement to check for intent.

- In case of intentional TK, only 1 guy gets TK'ed, so no mass TK's anymore, unless the TK'er takes a tank or aircraft and starts destroying manned vehicles. If a troll needs to respawn for every TK he does, it should deter him from doing it after no more than a few tries, as "fun" < effort.

- In case of accidental TK, it should teach everyone to properly ID their targets, clear backblast (though not applicable on vanilla ArmA), check surroundings of target, ... which in the long run should benefit the entire community.

[Chutnut]

In terms of actually punishing a player for TK I would only put a respawn delay on so that way it is nothing too harsh. But of course it will be difficult for pilots.

[ansin11]

Hence why I said just don't do anything if it's a pilot. Good Lord please send help.

[shuenix]

I really do think something has to happen. It is escalating.

I was thinking about some "jailtime" if you do a tk. Maybe something like:

1 TK = 2 min

Number 2 TK on the day 3 min
Number 3 TK on the day 4 min
And so on.

So if I shoot up a frindly APC with 3 people in it, I would serve 9 min "Jailtime".

The record would be reset at server start or each 24 hour.

If its possible. I dont know.  I dont have a clue on programming.

 

 

Shuenix

[Ryko]

Your jailtime is a respawn delay? Easily subverted by disconnecting and reconnecting to the server.

[GamerbugUK]

Just report them then move on, TKs happen, some purposeful others accidental. 

 

I've been on the receiving end many,  many times, and if it is serious I report it, if not I give a friendly yet stern "be careful in future" warning. 

 

 

[Nosferatu]

Maybe a way would be to keep track of TKs on the server and you could weed out the habitual TKers? 

 

'Oh this person has a real habit of TKs, lets ban them' rather than writing an autoban script? 

 

One of the other servers has a report option that comes up after someone even damages you, so you can forgive or report. 

could that work? 

[Amentes]

There sort of is such a system in place, via the Spartans.

 

If a system like you describe is put into place, it will get flooded with reports of entirely accidental TKs. Add to that, people who storm a building after another player has already thrown a grenade through the window.

 

This sort of stuff can only be judged by a person who was there to observe it, unfortunatelly, which is why the player report system is there so that you can provide video.

[Stanhope]

Right, to come back on this, we have made some changes to our TK messages, base protection and added a new feature.

For starters TK messages will now in 95% of the cases display the name of the actual TKer even if he's using for example the minigun of a ghosthawk.  On top of this base protection will now also stop you from firing from inside or with a vehicle at base and all FOBs. 
And probably most importantly for this thread, if you TK someone a hintC (a box with a message you have to press OK on before you can do anything else) will show up on your screen if you TK someone.
And finally we've done some behind the screens tweaks.  I'm not going to explain what exactly this is but it will allow us to easier react on team-kills.

 

These changes will be implemented in I&A version 3.2.4 along with some other changes.  I don't currently have an ETA on this update as we're still tweaking things to ensure that it's as good as possible.  

Stanhope

[shuenix]

Sounds great.
 

 

Shuenix

[Mad Eye Moody]

Can I make an observation re TK. I am guilty of the occasional unintentional TK which I always apologise for either in voice or chat. It doesn’t happen very often and the last few have been true accidents for which I was blamed, I believe, unfairly but take on the chin as part of the gameplay. Examples of this are: 1) my squad surrounded a house with multiple EI inside, one opened the door stood back and I chucked a grenade in and shouted fire in the hole. Unfortunately one squad member was not on voice and ran in good soon and got killed. 2) I was driving a Hunter and picked up a guy who then team killed using the machine gun, I got the blame? 3) I was driving a Truck and a player was hiding underneath, I drove off he got squashed, I got the blame. However if I pilot a chopper and drive it into the ground killing all the occupants I don’t get a team kill warning.
Please understand this is not a complaint but just an observation. I am generally loving the AhoyWorld experience so far.


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[Xwatt]

3 hours ago, Mad Eye Moody said:

Can I make an observation re TK. I am guilty of the occasional unintentional TK which I always apologise for either in voice or chat. It doesn’t happen very often and the last few have been true accidents for which I was blamed, I believe, unfairly but take on the chin as part of the gameplay. Examples of this are: 1) my squad surrounded a house with multiple EI inside, one opened the door stood back and I chucked a grenade in and shouted fire in the hole. Unfortunately one squad member was not on voice and ran in good soon and got killed. 2) I was driving a Hunter and picked up a guy who then team killed using the machine gun, I got the blame? 3) I was driving a Truck and a player was hiding underneath, I drove off he got squashed, I got the blame. However if I pilot a chopper and drive it into the ground killing all the occupants I don’t get a team kill warning.
Please understand this is not a complaint but just an observation. I am generally loving the AhoyWorld experience so far.


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Of course that's the case, but we can't make exceptions for every accidental teamkill, as the system sees a teamkill as a teamkill, whether it was accidental or not, and we cannot account for the accidental teamkill 

[Geb]

1) That happens ;-)

2) He's on the trigger, so he gets the TK. (Am I right on this')

3) Yes, we have some "special" player.

4) Pilots fly into the ground (by accident, damaged or ...) and would be kicked off the server very quick. But of course Zeus/Admins will recognize more frequent events very quick and can decide if a pilot should leave a slot or get banned because of intentional TK's.

[Mad Eye Moody]

In number 2) I got the TK as I was driving the Hunter. Today I was the passenger in a chopper that crashed into the side of a mountain killing all. Message said *** pilot killed himself. Then all,the others came up as team killed by *** pilot.


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