Pilots on EU1 & 2

[Eagle-Eye]

On 19-2-2017 at 10:58 AM, Jason. said:

I think this is much more true, most pilots will do their job without requiring any input/destination from their passengers, much like a bus.

Therefore the players (passengers) are used to this system where they can hop in a heli and trust the pilot to take them where they need to go.

 

Sure in an ideal world the pilots could be more like cab drivers, but it's simply not going to happen

A bus / train / metro /airline has a fixed scheduled route it follows, regardless whether or not someone gets on or off. A cab driver will wait until a customer boards and tells him where he wants to go. If nobody gets in, the taxi won't go anywhere. By pure comparison, heli pilots are cab drivers...

If you want heli pilots on EU1/2 to use a bus driver system, they'd have to take off and visit all LZ's around all AO's before returning to base, just in case someone might want to go or leave there. I'm pretty sure it would take less than 5 minutes for someone to start asking why there aren't any helicopters to pick him up.

[Amentes]

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Another extreme case:  I jump with some friends in a heli and want to go to side.  We type this out in vehicle chat.  The pilot doesn't listen/doesn't care he just takes us to the main AO.  

 

That would be annoying, and in the future you'd avoid that pilot. Which, overall, is much less disruptive as compared to the previous.

[Stanhope]

37 minutes ago, Amentes said:

 

That would be annoying, and in the future you'd avoid that pilot. Which, overall, is much less disruptive as compared to the previous.

Well, my personal opinion is that people having to simply say where they want to go is less disruptive than people starting to avoid certain pilots.  But that's just my point of view.  

I guess that, from now on, i'll type out in chat "where do you want to go?" once every time someone get's in the back.  But i'm not gonna keep asking and i won't fly out with one or two passenger in the back.  If i've got a full bird of mute people i'll drop them somewhere to my choosing.  

[Cebi]

@Eagle-Eye> Pilots on EU1&2 are Pilots on EU1&2. The comparison with mass transport was only used to get a point across. No need to dissect it.

 

 

@All: Most players are just interested to be transported somewhere close to the action. Most of the time there is only a few if any cooperating squads, hence most players are indifferent where you place them and the rest will voice their opinion. 

[Stanhope]

2 hours ago, Cebi said:

@All: Most players are just interested to be transported somewhere close to the action. Most of the time there is only a few if any cooperating squads, hence most players are indifferent where you place them and the rest will voice their opinion. 

And all i ask of those people that are indifferent is that they voice their indifference.

[Blue-958-]

This is a lot of hassle over essentially a non-issue.

[GamerbugUK]

I like what Stanhope is trying to achieve, more comms between those in the bird and the pilot, the problem is the nature of the public server.

 

You fill your bird after an AO, you ask where to? and one guy says RTB another says next AO and another says side pls. Wherever you go you are going to have unhappy people in your bird, who feel you aren't listening to them.

As for winding down the engines; I'd ignore that chopper and assume the pilot was AFK, doing 'something' else, waiting for specific people to board (personal pilot for a squad, it happens) or just being a dick. Not saying you are any of those but people just think 'idle pilot, i'll jump on the one ready to go'.

 

I commend the effort, not sure it works on public servers though.

[Stanhope]

1 hour ago, Gamerbug said:

You fill your bird after an AO, you ask where to? and one guy says RTB another says next AO and another says side pls. Wherever you go you are going to have unhappy people in your bird, who feel you aren't listening to them.

I'd love to be faced with this problem.  Yea. some people want to go to the next AO, some want to RTB but i've never had all 3.

What I do to fix it is go to the closest one first.  And I announce that i'll be doing this.

[GamerbugUK]

33 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

I'd love to be faced with this problem.  Yea. some people want to go to the next AO, some want to RTB but i've never had all 3.

What I do to fix it is go to the closest one first.  And I announce that i'll be doing this.

 

I've been part of that scenario a few times (though I have been playing I&A since 2013), but yeah it's usually AO or RTB, and the pilot normally picks RTB no matter how far away.

 

However on those instance they don't, they fly into the AO, ignore the suggested safe LZ, pick any other LZ marked no matter how ridiculous and wonder when the chopper goes boom; still everyone who wanted an RTB now has it .

 

Of couse had the guy picked the safe LZ the troops would probably moan "how far away are we? get closer!"

[Stanhope]

45 minutes ago, Gamerbug said:

Of couse had the guy picked the safe LZ the troops would probably moan "how far away are we? get closer!"

You can drop them inside a freshly spawned AO and they will still moan 

[Pedro C]

(read first post, didn't read answers)

 

I've been playing as pilot in AW servers recently, and what I do is pretty simple: I mark my own route and LZ.

 

The first thing I do is open the map to check where the AO is. Then I study the sorrounding terrain to see if I can use any hills as cover. When possible, I always choose the hill side instead of flat terrain, because I can use the hill to hide from enemy AA.

 

After this map study, I draw a line from base/fob to lz, as straight as possible. I then mark several points: base, lz, 1km before lz and 1km before base. The 1km mark are used to estimate when I have to start slowing down to land. I usually make these marks in group channel ou vehicle channel, and in red or green or any other color that stands from the GPS lines. Adding to these marks, I usually also draw yellow lines where power lines are. This is pretty usefull, specially at night.

 

The rule is simple: whoever gets in my heli flys my route and lands at my LZ. Don't like it? Use another heli.

After a few trips you memorize the route and land/terrain marks, like towns, hills, radio towers, etc.

 

I used this "technique" yesterday and most pilots followed my marks.

 

I also turn the engine off when waiting. It's quieter and saves fuel.

 

So far, no one complained about the routes and LZs.

 

 

There's usually some retard that deletes the marks...

[S0zi0p4th]

3 minutes ago, Pedro C said:

(read first post, didn't read answers)

 

I've been playing as pilot in AW servers recently, and what I do is pretty simple: I mark my own route and LZ.

 

The first thing I do is open the map to check where the AO is. Then I study the sorrounding terrain to see if I can use any hills as cover. When possible, I always choose the hill side instead of flat terrain, because I can use the hill to hide from enemy AA.

 

After this map study, I draw a line from base/fob to lz, as straight as possible. I then mark several points: base, lz, 1km before lz and 1km before base. The 1km mark are used to estimate when I have to start slowing down to land. I usually make these marks in group channel ou vehicle channel, and in red or green or any other color that stands from the GPS lines. Adding to these marks, I usually also draw yellow lines where power lines are. This is pretty usefull, specially at night.

 

The rule is simple: whoever gets in my heli flys my route and lands at my LZ. Don't like it? Use another heli.

After a few trips you memorize the route and land/terrain marks, like towns, hills, radio towers, etc.

 

I used this "technique" yesterday and most pilots followed my marks.

 

I also turn the engine off when waiting. It's quieter and saves fuel.

 

So far, no one complained about the routes and LZs.

 

 

There's usually some retard that deletes the marks...

Try to use group for it that way only felow pilots can delete them will limit the amount off ..........

[GamerbugUK]

38 minutes ago, Pedro C said:

The rule is simple: whoever gets in my heli flys my route and lands at my LZ. Don't like it? Use another heli.

 

I prefer the option of discussing LZs like Stanhope does, at the end of the day the pilot is in charge, but the passengers may have a better idea of where they are needed and thus may know a better LZ, or should I say rough LZ.

 

If I get no choice and am ferried to the same spot, which could be a deathtrap once on the ground, I'd happily wait for a different pilot.

 

but you are indeed in charge of your bird, so thats just my opinion.

[Pedro C]

4 minutes ago, Gamerbug said:

 

I prefer the option of discussing LZs like Stanhope does, at the end of the day the pilot is in charge, but the passengers may have a better idea of where they are needed and thus may know a better LZ, or should I say rough LZ.

 

If I get no choice and am ferried to the same spot, which could be a deathtrap once on the ground, I'd happily wait for a different pilot.

 

but you are indeed in charge of your bird, so thats just my opinion.

 

The thing is most people want to go as close as possible to the AO, if possible inside it. I have no problem in dropping them there, as long as AA threats are eliminated, and this is critical, since I usually fly a little bird. When a new AO spawns, there's a lot of AAs, so the "close as possible" for me is somewhere I don't get shot down, if possible 1km max from AO. I try to find a balance between getting close and not beeing shot.

That's why I study the terrain. If I see I can get 100m from AO using hills as cover, I'll fly below hill tops and drop people there, no problem, but if the closest protection (town, hill, whatever) is 500m, 600m, 1km, like happened yesterday when I played, there's where I'll drop people.

In fact, yesterday an AO spawned about 500/600m from fob... I could barely lift off. I opted to transports people from base to fob, and fly really low when approaching fob.

 

[GamerbugUK]

20 minutes ago, Pedro C said:

 

The thing is most people want to go as close as possible to the AO, if possible inside it. I have no problem in dropping them there, as long as AA threats are eliminated, and this is critical, since I usually fly a little bird. When a new AO spawns, there's a lot of AAs, so the "close as possible" for me is somewhere I don't get shot down, if possible 1km max from AO. I try to find a balance between getting close and not beeing shot.

That's why I study the terrain. If I see I can get 100m from AO using hills as cover, I'll fly below hill tops and drop people there, no problem, but if the closest protection (town, hill, whatever) is 500m, 600m, 1km, like happened yesterday when I played, there's where I'll drop people.

In fact, yesterday an AO spawned about 500/600m from fob... I could barely lift off. I opted to transports people from base to fob, and fly really low when approaching fob.

 

Completely on board with your annoyance at those "drop me next to the tower" or "get me closer I dont want to run" types and they are very common. Like you, but as a passenger, I study the terrain, look for hills to protect the approach, look for buildings to land behind or dense trees or anything that stops that potential AA that's sneakily outside the AO area just waiting to drop the heli.

 

People tend to think the circle is the AO and that's where the enemy is, and if you don't drop them right next to it, they bitching comences; but it's so common for the EI to be outside that circle on a new AO.

 

But the passenger might see the LZ you are ferrying everyone to on the East of the AO (an example) and think, hey what if we hit them from the North, or West and want to be dropped at a good tactical and safe LZ elsewhere. Also what if they want the side mission?

[Pedro C]

33 minutes ago, Gamerbug said:

Completely on board with your annoyance at those "drop me next to the tower" or "get me closer I dont want to run" types and they are very common. Like you, but as a passenger, I study the terrain, look for hills to protect the approach, look for buildings to land behind or dense trees or anything that stops that potential AA that's sneakily outside the AO area just waiting to drop the heli.

 

People tend to think the circle is the AO and that's where the enemy is, and if you don't drop them right next to it, they bitching comences; but it's so common for the EI to be outside that circle on a new AO.

 

But the passenger might see the LZ you are ferrying everyone to on the East of the AO (an example) and think, hey what if we hit them from the North, or West and want to be dropped at a good tactical and safe LZ elsewhere. Also what if they want the side mission?

 

Well, we can get to a compromise. Still yesterday, there was a time where 2 routes and LZs were marked. We, pilots, can mark several routes and LZs (for example, N, S, E and W of AO, if possible). Code them by colours, numbers, names, whatever, and let people decide where they wanna go, but people got to be aware that they will be dropped where marked, not where they want., even if that means they'll have to walk 1km.

 

If we can risk piloting in the middle of night, with poor visibility and no protection, soldiers certainly can walk 1km with terrain features protecting them.

 

I think this is a concept easy to pass to other non-pilot players: "you wanna be dropped inside AO? Ok, no problem." Then you get shot over and over, plus you'll have to wait for helis to respawn, and make the trip again... people will eventually understand that they can't be dropped 1m from the objective.

[fir_nev]

We are talking about the mentality of public players (who, unfortunately, have brittle fingers to press 'W' or 'up' for virtual route march) here. The only way for pilots not to be at the receiving end of toxic treatment is for foot soldiers to be educated.

 

We can either have:

• a script that appears whenever they board an air or VTOL transport with a message: "Mark LZ. Do not abuse pilots" or
• pilots manually forewarn passengers in Vehicle Chat (foresee trading of insults between pilot and passengers)

AW EU 1 & 2 will have a constant stream of new players and we need to remind them and our regulars consistently. If no LZ is marked, pilots can mark them after 3 questions for a preferred location goes unanswered. We would not want those innocent passengers to suffer the consequences because of the decisions of the few.

 

My biggest gripe is when unfamiliar maverick pilots fly in closer to the AO past our marked LZ. Total disregard for Tigrises and AA riflemen.

[Pedro C]

I think said script should say something like:

 

"Please mark your LZ on the map. If not marked, the pilot will choose LZ. Remember, the pilot has the authority to change your LZ in case of danger."

 

Obviously, dialog pilot <--> passenger should exist, at least to let the pilot know where the passenger want to land, or to let the passenger know their LZ has been changed.

 

[Eagle-Eye]

Personally, I'd keep LZ designation mostly in the hands of the pilot and let soldiers "pick their fit".

- Pilots are expected to know both their own and aircraft's capabilities and limits best. I know this can be a lot to ask for on a public server sometimes, but in general, it works out alright.

- There's more to an LZ than just what looks nice and cosy. Terrain and objects, route in and out, threats at and around, distance, available landing area etc. They're just a few factors that impact whether an LZ is suitable or not. It takes some mental preparation to consider those things, which is not always optimal, or even possible, when you haven't chosen the LZ yourself.

- Pilots should have a better air picture (overall air traffic, enemy air defences, ...) than the foot soldiers, through direct communication amongst each other (which is why pilots are strongly advised to join Teamspeak, or at the very least create a closed pilot unit in-game for use of group chat / VON).

- It's not for nothing they call it the "Pilot In Command", so in the end, he's the one deciding if, when and where to drop people off. Again, it has to do with own and aircraft limits, but also possible unexpected events. E.g. LZ turns out to be hot and pilot diverts = DO NOT give him a bad attitude for saving your virtual life! (which happens all too often unfortunately)

 

Of course, passengers are allowed to make requests, but that shouldn't be the standard operating procedure, and people should understand their request may not be granted. In case you're wondering why:

I fear what will happen if you give passengers that amount of input, is that there will be dozens of LZ's marked at AO, side, PRIO and even the middle of nowhere, because almost everyone has their own ideal position or is completely oblivious to their surroundings. Eventually, it will become impossible for the pilot to just find the requested LZ on the map!

 

To give you such an example, that happened to me just yesterday actually (though it's definitely not a solitary case).. I was inbound to an LZ and about 900m from landing, a passenger requested to be taken to a specific LZ he marked on SIDE. I told him to standby, as I was at that time fully committed to my own LZ... Later, I checked the map and noticed his LZ was just very slightly more to the north (±85m. Yes, I checked ). My gripes in that situation:

1) I clearly informed my passengers which LZ I was going to.

2) Even if someone did miss that info, direction of flight should've made it very obvious which LZ I was heading to, especially at that point in time. (though to give him the benefit of the doubt, my speed was still high, as I only really start reducing speed at ±500m)

3) The LZ I was heading towards was marked on SIDE, as was his, so I seriously doubt he didn't see it.

4) He stayed seated until I told him to get out.

5) Because of delay on ground, a jet was able to position himself and strike us all with missiles.

6) Obviously, I was the bad pilot for dropping everyone off in a hot LZ and I should be kicked. 

[Stanhope]

8 hours ago, Gamerbug said:

"get me closer I dont want to run" types and they are very common

I do get these sometimes, even when i'm within 200m from the edge of the AO.  Most of the time, i lift of fly 10m or so up the hill and land again.  Usually they jump out after that.  If i can't i just tell them to get out where i'm at or come along back to base.  Only had 1 guy so far fly along with me back to base.

 

8 hours ago, Pedro C said:

I think this is a concept easy to pass to other non-pilot players: "you wanna be dropped inside AO? Ok, no problem." Then you get shot over and over, plus you'll have to wait for helis to respawn, and make the trip again... people will eventually understand that they can't be dropped 1m from the objective.

I doubt they'd get it, they are most likely going to blame the other guy.  Because their LZ can't be bad now can it?  You'll just end up with one or 2 guys furiously complaining about how a bad pilot you are. 

 

And i second everything @Eagle-Eye said.  Especially number 6 

On point 4: when i land i tell them to get out, if they aren't after a certain amount of time (which depends on type of bird, the LZ, whether or not there is a jet, ...) i'm off.  Most of the time they jump out when i'm 5m in the air,  others just stay seated in the back quietly. And the last handful of guys asks me to land at the LZ again, which i usually do.  But i'm not gonna stay on the ground for a minute waiting for someone to get out, a jet might position itself to kill me in that time 

 

All just my personal opinion.

[Amentes]

On 10/3/2017 at 7:26 PM, Eagle-Eye said:

5) Because of delay on ground, a jet was able to position himself and strike us all with missiles.

 

This is why I take off again after fifteen seconds or less.

 

If someone went AFK on the flight, that's his problem