EU2: why is it abandoned?

[Eagle-Eye]

I know we have this topic to talk about I&A3 in general, but seeing how EU2 really seems to be struggling nowadays, I think it deserves its own topic to hopefully find out why it has become so deserted. If not, admins/mods are free to join the topics, or remove this one entirely.

 

In order to knows what's going on, as many as possible should write here why they can't, don't want or maybe even refuse to connect to EU2 anymore, and if possible, what and how you would change to make EU2 more crowded again. Doesn't matter if you have already replied in the mentioned topic above. You can repeat or quote what you said there, here, to gather it all in one place.

 

To give you a few examples of what you could comment about:

- Tanoa: Lost interest in the map, is the high amount of objects causing performance issues, ...?

- Server: Ping too high, server load causing performance issues, ...?

- Base: Wrong design or location, does it not have certain things you'd expect there, ...?

- Missions: Too hard AI, not enough difference between different AO's, ...?

- Environment: Too much fog, too often nighttime when you want to/can play, ...?

- Players*: Don't play as you'd like them to enough, annoying / TK'ing too much, ...?

- Spartans / admins: Not doing enough to enhance gameplay, often not or too present, ...?

- ...

 

* Small note about a "special case", in my opinion: Absence of players, while a valid reason in itself, is a chicken-or-egg situation, in my opinion. Someone has to be the first to connect and stay there for a minimum amount of time to allow others to notice someone's on, so if that's your main reason for not logging on, I do hope you change your mind soon. 

 

 

To start off, the problem according to me:

Personally, I think it's in large part because of the base location. The current situation is that the base is in one the corners of the map on a disconnected island, while it used to be almost smack-down the middle of the map, on the main island. As a result, having a pilot has become almost a must to get to any AO after the first 3 or 4. It seems that for some reason people aren't as eager to take the pilot slot anymore (I don't see why, it wasn't uncommon before to see 1 or 2 rookie pilots online in the past. Maybe because we only have a Ghosthawk to fly now?), meaning you're in for a pretty long boat trip + drive (if you actually manage to find a vehicle) instead. Add to that, that AI has become more lethal (especially when enemy artillery is active) and it isn't too uncommon to get the feeling you're spending more time ferrying than fighting. This results in a low fun factor, and if the server is up for a long time, the AO's are further out, which makes the problem even worse.

 

Possible fix:

- I'm working on a few ideas for alternative bases, which I will present to the powers that be once I have something worth showing.

- As Spartan, I'm not a wishing well that will grant your every request, but if I'm online and you need something, ask nicely and I may be able to help you out.

 

 

 

Now, on to you.

[Liru the Lcpl.]

We just need to fix the transportation system. people leave because there are no pilots and simple ways to get to the AO. Easy as that.

[fir_nev]

I suggest the following...

 

Impossible in real life but, since this is a simulation, we could use this to reignite interest playing in Tanoa.

[Stanhope]

The reason I don't play a lot on EU2 anymore is many real life stuff.  I simpy don't have the time to game a complete hour.  And if I do find myself with half an hour of free time I actually want to do something, so I join EU1. In the very uncommon case I do have more then an hour I do join EU2, most of the time as a pilot.

 

Another thing about EU2 is the fog.  I know that there's nothing that can be done to prevent it. And that I should ask an admin on TS to remove it.  However during the 'down hours' there usually only is 1 admin or spartan online or none at all. (I get why, admins and spartans have a life besides AW as well) But this makes it rather difficult to have the fog removed.

 

On zeus enhancing gameplay:  This could be because of me not playing a lot but the only zeus i've seen active on EU2 is @Eagle-Eye.  Now I understand why someone that want's to zeus prefers EU1 to do this on.  But this results (imo) in a similar situation as players needing to join to make other players join.  If there are a lot of really good zeusmissions on eu2 people will start to join eu2 (imo).

 

I personally don't have a problem with the base, tanoa or the missions.

 

Now for fixes.

For the number of players: maybe some EU1 regulars could temporary change to EU2? Until it has regained some popularity?  Or maybe advertise EU2 on EU1?  (I'm just brainstorming here)

 

The fog: Maybe put a marker somewhere on the map explaining to new players how to get the fog removed?

 

Enhanced gameplay: I don't think we should (can?) force spartans to join EU2 and zeus there.  But it would be great if they could.

[fir_nev]

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Now for fixes.

For the number of players: maybe some EU1 regulars could temporary change to EU2? Until it has regained some popularity?  Or maybe advertise EU2 on EU1?  (I'm just brainstorming here)

 

I am willing to try but I cannot pilot to save my life. Thus, I brought up the insta-HALO jump idea.

[GamerbugUK]

Well I'm willing to move ship to EU2 when possible, and I am happy to give piloting a shot, but don't expect miracles, just getting from A to B.

 

I wonder if EU2 had stayed I&A 2, while EU1 trialed I&A 3 that would have had any impact

[fir_nev]

32 minutes ago, Gamerbug said:

Well I'm willing to move ship to EU2 when possible, and I am happy to give piloting a shot, but don't expect miracles, just getting from A to B.

 

I wonder if EU2 had stayed I&A 2, while EU1 trialed I&A 3 that would have had any impact

 

That is a good point but now that it will look idiotic to roll back, what we, regulars, can do is damage control...

[TheScar]

I dont give a shit about EU2#,but i couldnt watch your misery!

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Eagle-Eye said:

To start off, the problem according to me:

Personally, I think it's in large part because of the base location.    <<  snip  >>  meaning you're in for a pretty long boat trip + drive (if you actually manage to find a vehicle) instead.  <<  snip  >>  and it isn't too uncommon to get the feeling you're spending more time ferrying than fighting. This results in a low fun factor, and if the server is up for a long time, the AO's are further out, which makes the problem even worse.

 

 

I complained about this similar issue for EU1# Altis as the placement for "start base" is kinda far off the (current) actions,altho it catches the feeling of "you just reached Omaha Beach 1h ago and begin in a early setup FOB emplacement" quite well.

As intended by mission maker ( INVADE) .

I+A3 "introduced" the old teleport system once "annexed" FOBs are available to make transportation a bit more reliable (no more watching shitty pilots crash 20x times as only transport),so once FOBs work properly and are achieved the issue of "getting of spawn base" should be a way easier.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Liru the Lcpl. said:

We just need to fix the transportation system. people leave because there are no pilots and simple ways to get to the AO. Easy as that.

true words,yet still not only a "pilot issue"

 

 

 

7 hours ago, fir_nev said:

I suggest the following...

 

No,just no!

I dont feel the need to express myself without using words like "nubcake" / "catering to lazyness"  or way worse.

I+A isnt about going the easy way 99,5% of time.

inb4 "how do i open my parachute"

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Another thing about EU2 is the fog.  I know that there's nothing that can be done to prevent it. And that I should ask an admin on TS to remove it.  However during the 'down hours' there usually only is 1 admin or spartan online or none at all. (I get why, admins and spartans have a life besides AW as well) But this makes it rather difficult to have the fog removed.

 

 

Fog is a issue that is on BI to fix,but that (still) takes (more) time and wont be done before xmas this year (if at all).

What is doable is a mission edit to "lock" the mission to a certain time (that doesnt feature that kind of thick fog) and disable the progress (12.oo x 24h).

Untill fixed.

Rather easy.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Gamerbug said:

I wonder if EU2 had stayed I&A 2, while EU1 trialed I&A 3 that would have had any impact

 

And this is why developing a new mission on 2 islands at the same time is way more tricky than someone thougt it is.

Amirite?

[fir_nev]

10 hours ago, TheScar said:

No,just no!

I dont feel the need to express myself without using words like "nubcake" / "catering to lazyness"  or way worse.

I+A isnt about going the easy way 99,5% of time.

inb4 "how do i open my parachute"

 

 

I tried playing on EU2 last night and I had to go as pilot before another person comes in 30mins later... Luckily, Bulb of Saur is a better pilot than I am. Then, he had to constantly switch roles from medic to UAV operator cos there were only 2 of us...

 

We also realised the following:

1. Artillery shells the spawn base (prowler area is main target)
2. FPS drops to 20+ when U look at AO's direction and came back at 40+ when U turn to look away
3. Cleanup script badly needed for boats
4. Boats need rearm and repair if that is possible (we rode on one attack boat with 40% fuel and 0 rounds in GMG)

Pictures will be posted soon.

Edited November 19, 2016 by fir_nev
Additional content

[Auntystatic]

I don't play I&A3 on eu2 anymore because of.....

 

Very few pilots play there now, without pilots it makes the game mostly travel time and less ground war, if I wanted a travel time game I would play euro trucker!

New weapon restrictions for the spotters

It takes ages to get anywhere by boat

There are no vehicles to use / steal to drive in land when you get out the boat, the airport has no vehicles whatsoever, every airport I know of is littered with cars etc

You can travel for 20 minutes then find a red smoke grenade suddenly apears at your feet in the middle of the jungle, then cas wipes you out.

No vehicles at main base as they are all on the beach getting a sun tan

I too hate the fog but that's reality for you, I do like the darkness and rain though

 

Its basically just not fun anymore, I appreciate all the work that has gone into it and the idea behind it, but it just doesn't work in its current form on the tanoa map.  And I'm sorry but I have no suggestions on possible solutions to these problems at this time, it will require much thinking to solve this one.

 

[Stanhope]

22 hours ago, fir_nev said:

I tried playing on EU2 last night and I had to go as pilot before another person comes in 30mins later... Luckily, Bulb of Saur is a better pilot than I am. Then, he had to constantly switch roles from medic to UAV operator cos there were only 2 of us...

Bulb told me you disconnected about 5 minutes before i joined.  We had the same problem but we did get a pilot about 10-15 minutes after i joined.

 

When i joined yesterday I thought of something.  At the moment the base is at the south-center Island.  It's a fairly large base compared to EU1 with a decent runway and stuff like that.  Now what i thought might be a solution is to move the base to the south-eastern Island to the airfield there (I believe its name is St-gorge or something like that?)  I haven't checked it out in the editor (lot's of real life stuff going on) but if i remember correctly it only is a tad bigger then the one we are using now so it will still fit in the invade context (imo). 

 

Now if staff thinks this is a good idea i am willing to make the template for the base.  It might take me a while because i don't know when i'll get a bit more time to game but i can probably get it done made in a week or 2.

[fir_nev]

58 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

Bulb told me you disconnected about 5 minutes before i joined.  We had the same problem but we did get a pilot about 10-15 minutes after i joined.

 

When i joined yesterday I thought of something.  At the moment the base is at the south-center Island.  It's a fairly large base compared to EU1 with a decent runway and stuff like that.  Now what i thought might be a solution is to move the base to the south-eastern Island to the airfield there (I believe its name is St-gorge or something like that?)  I haven't checked it out in the editor (lot's of real life stuff going on) but if i remember correctly it only is a tad bigger then the one we are using now so it will still fit in the invade context (imo). 

 

Now if staff thinks this is a good idea i am willing to make the template for the base.  It might take me a while because i don't know when i'll get a bit more time to game but i can probably get it done made in a week or 2.

 

Ah! Wasted. I had to go off at 2300hrs. Sleeping time for an old man. Was the base getting bombarded by Sochors still?

 

We just need some inputs from the staff or development team of what they think of our thoughts. I have not seen any response from them for the past week or so.

[TheScar]

6 hours ago, fir_nev said:

We just need some inputs from the staff or development team of what they think of our thoughts. I have not seen any response from them for the past week or so.

 

 

... more like months 

[Eagle-Eye]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

 

 

On 18-11-2016 at 5:43 AM, Liru the Lcpl. said:

We just need to fix the transportation system. people leave because there are no pilots and simple ways to get to the AO. Easy as that.

 

On 18-11-2016 at 7:31 AM, fir_nev said:

I suggest the following... [snip]

 

So as I suspected, transport and accessibility are the main problems then? Though I have no say in the matter, I like the idea of paradropping in (more realistic than teleporting poles, which I thought about too as a temporary solution) but wouldn't that require that everyone takes a chute instead of a backpack? If there aren't any pilots to bring in supplies or take you back to base, you'll run out of bullets pretty quickly and you'll have to respawn just to get rearmed. Doesn't seem very fun either...

 

 

9 hours ago, Stanhope said:

When i joined yesterday I thought of something.  At the moment the base is at the south-center Island.  It's a fairly large base compared to EU1 with a decent runway and stuff like that.  Now what i thought might be a solution is to move the base to the south-eastern Island to the airfield there (I believe its name is St-gorge or something like that?)  I haven't checked it out in the editor (lot's of real life stuff going on) but if i remember correctly it only is a tad bigger then the one we are using now so it will still fit in the invade context (imo). 

 

Now if staff thinks this is a good idea i am willing to make the template for the base.  It might take me a while because i don't know when i'll get a bit more time to game but i can probably get it done made in a week or 2.

 

In the past week, I've made 4 bases and some adjustments to make Tanoa as a whole more lively, which I then suggested to / discussed with @BACONMOP. Initial response was positive imo, so I'm now waiting for news on if / how / when he'll use them in a public release. I can say already that St. George Airport is a no-go, though, because FOB Fin is already there.

[MDCCLXXVI]

this should fix any fog issues, simply insert into init.sqf

 

if (isdedicated) then {true spawn {while {true} do {30 setfog [0,0,0];sleep 600;};};};

 

[fir_nev]

14 hours ago, Eagle-Eye said:

So as I suspected, transport and accessibility are the main problems then? Though I have no say in the matter, I like the idea of paradropping in (more realistic than teleporting poles, which I thought about too as a temporary solution) but wouldn't that require that everyone takes a chute instead of a backpack? If there aren't any pilots to bring in supplies or take you back to base, you'll run out of bullets pretty quickly and you'll have to respawn just to get rearmed. Doesn't seem very fun either...

 

If U want, I can send U the link of the video via PM. It is possible to retain Ur backpack after a HALO jump. Sometimes, 1 of 10 times Ur backpack does not appear on Ur backpack and U have to scavenge.

[GamerbugUK]

12 hours ago, fir_nev said:

 

If U want, I can send U the link of the video via PM. It is possible to retain Ur backpack after a HALO jump. Sometimes, 1 of 10 times Ur backpack does not appear on Ur backpack and U have to scavenge.

 

Whenever I did a halo jump it always kept my backpack, so I concur this is correct. It just sort of gives u a magical parachute which when you land changes to your normal pack.

[Auntystatic]

I have decided to learn to pilot heli's, I'm good with fixed wings but a disaster in rotary, so its into the editor for a crash (forgive the pun) coarse in heli piloting skills then on to my test server where I can do missions without killing a load of passengers, I can't fly using the keyboard and mouse so I've hooked up my x-55 hotas and I'll see how I go with that, any tips would be welcome, I've already had one and that is to buy rudder pedal controls for the tail rota.

[Chuck]

I do think thats fog is part of the issue, its become a big problem that we would love to be fixed.

As others have said, you need a certain amount of players to already be on the server for others to connect, whether that be 10 or 15 or even more. Its a fulcrum point that need to be one sided for eu2 to populate. 

[TheScar]

obsolete reply

/removed

 

 

[GamerbugUK]

Went on last night for a few hours. At most there were 8 people on at one time I believe.

 

Those who were online, stayed a fair while, but lots of others joined here and there and left pretty quick. Several people joined without the DLC and were kicked.

 

Fog issue never happened, so can't comment.

 

AI seemed very jittery, often half of thier body would disappear at ranges of about 700-800m, some floating tanks as well.

 

Artillery mission appeared to bug out.

 

I honestly dont know if Tanoa as a map is big enough or laid out well enough for I&A 3 (or I&A at all).

 

I'd actually suggest moving it back to I&A 2. Or move Tanoa to EU4 and I&A2 (or a different game mode) and put Altis on EU 2 with I&A 3 again, I reckon youd get a big influx of new players.

[Eagle-Eye]

According to Gametracker, the average amount of players over a month dropped from 15 to 7, but I have the impression activity seems to be picking up again, with 3 consecutive days (past week) gathering approximately 25 players at the same time. We also have more pilots nowadays, in some cases even recreating the "issue" we had in I&A2 that pilots outnumbered infantry.

 

5 hours ago, Gamerbug said:

AI seemed very jittery, often half of thier body would disappear at ranges of about 700-800m, some floating tanks as well.

 

I too have noticed a few bugs with AI. A lot of them seem to be glitching, either:

- standing completely still despite there being a designated waypoint, or under direct fire

- jumping front and back, as if they're lagging immensely

- being stuck inside buildings or rocks

 

The only way I've found to fix this so far is to select, copy, delete and paste them. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Gamerbug said:

Artillery mission appeared to bug out.

What do you think is wrong with the artillery mission? Aside from the task showing as completed from the moment it spawns, and the long time for it to actually despawn once the Sochors are destroyed, I don't think I've noticed anything odd about it?

[Aegis_RVIR]

Uuuum, maybe because not everyone owns the apex DLC? If they don't own it, they can't join and they just stay on EU1. The map is prob the problem in my opinion.....

[Eagle-Eye]

2 hours ago, Cryo said:

Uuuum, maybe because not everyone owns the apex DLC? If they don't own it, they can't join and they just stay on EU1. The map is prob the problem in my opinion.....

Though I don't think it ever hit the 60 like EU1, I&A2.x on Tanao had plenty of days with at least 30, and often even 40-50 players on simultaneously, so that can't be the reason. Unless I&A3 made them ask for an Apex refund, of course...

[GamerbugUK]

Last night I jumped on and there were 28 players.

 

By the time I left about 90 mins later there were about 10.

 

I can say the worst thing has to be the fog, it's bloody awful and I do not know what Bohemia were thinking adding this as a feature, but it sucks the biggest balls ever.

 

I died a few times last night because I couldn't ID friendly and enemy troops, but you can be damn sue they could ID me at a longer range, and I seemed to be at an advantage over others as I was killing soldiers they couldn't see at all.

 

I think in future if I log on and the fog is there I'll just leave and go to EU1.