Revive and FAKS

[GamerbugUK]

EU1 and 2 specidfic idea.

 

So I play a medic fairly exclusively, dependant on slots and availbility, and I'm wondering if it is at all possible to have it so you only need a medikit to revive (and heal) rather than needing FAKs to revive? I'm fairly sure the BI revive script can do this, but not sure thats the one we are using or not?

 

Thoughts?

[Stanhope]

I think it's good that you only need one of the 2, but since a lot of people who dont play as medic a lot tend to forget their medkit and only take faks.  So maybe give the medic the possibility to revive using a medkit OR a fak?  I dont know if this is possible with the current scripts.  If it isn't I would prefer that you need a medkit.

[GamerbugUK]

If a medic forgets his medikit he deserves to be shot! 

 

JK, but medikits weigh a fair bit as do the 10+ FAKs you need. I like to be mobile as a medic, sprinting to the next downed person, or cover to cover to get that revive, and that encumbrance is not welcome. 

[Stanhope]

1 hour ago, Gamerbug said:

If a medic forgets his medikit he deserves to be shot! 

 

I actually agree, but if we did this we would only have 1 or 2 medics for an entire AO.

 

Another benefit of being able to revive with either one is that if you have to parachute out of a chopper, you can still revive players.  (This probably doesnt happen a lot)

[GamerbugUK]

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

 

I actually agree, but if we did this we would only have 1 or 2 medics for an entire AO.

 

Another benefit of being able to revive with either one is that if you have to parachute out of a chopper, you can still revive players.  (This probably doesnt happen a lot)

 

I have been in so may occasions where if I bailed I could have revived a bunch of people close to an AO, but to bail I'd have to drop my backpack, and my medikit, so on that front yes it's be amazing to not have to have a medikit and backpack, and allow FAKs to do the job.

 

But the medikit is pretty integral so I think that should be the option that stays (even though my arguement above makes me want to go that route).

 

Alternatley allow a medikit to fit into a vest but that makes little sense.

[Stanhope]

An other option to the baling is the ability to put your backpack between your legs before taking a parachute (i believe ACE has this ability? Dont know if it's possible on eu 1 and 2 to add this function without using a mod).

[GamerbugUK]

9 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

An other option to the baling is the ability to put your backpack between your legs before taking a parachute (i believe ACE has this ability? Dont know if it's possible on eu 1 and 2 to add this function without using a mod).

 

Doubtful, but a nice idea.

 

However a lot of pilots 'get off' on NOE flying (even when not necessary), so bailing is not an option then.

 

Whenever I play any role that does not require a backpack, you'll see me weaing a chute just in case though.

[ZeroZeroSix]

Im going to agree with the orginal idea +1.

 

Back when we had no weight limit this wasnt causing any trouble but right now the weight of the FAKs is really bothering and taking up lots of space. Maybe, if we really need to balance it out, we could increase the weight of the medikit a little bit so people are not able to fill up their missing weight with a stupid amount of ammo/smoke?

[GamerbugUK]

1 hour ago, ZeroZeroSix said:

Im going to agree with the orginal idea +1.

 

Back when we had no weight limit this wasnt causing any trouble but right now the weight of the FAKs is really bothering and taking up lots of space. Maybe, if we really need to balance it out, we could increase the weight of the medikit a little bit so people are not able to fill up their missing weight with a stupid amount of ammo/smoke?

 

True that when there was no weight limit it didn't matter, but when there was no weight limit I was carrying 15 FAKs,  medikit, smokes,  RGOs, EBR14, 10 mags, an RPG42 and 3 AT rockets!

 

For me I'd like to use the extra space for a few more smokes and gain that additional movement speed. 

[TheScar]

ontopic

i´m not really sure,but the used revive script is based on Norrins original rev script back from the days,i guess there was a cfg entry you d could adapt the usage of/how many FAKs it requires and  the different adjustable options for the reviver (read=not necessarily medic)

Its (imo) still the best rev script option (read=less problems than for other scripts) and def preferable to the way BI "solved" it.

Uncage the coders/scripters - they sure can talk more accurate on options/needs for this issue you mentioned.

 

offtopic

1 hour ago, Gamerbug said:

 but when there was no weight limit I was carrying xxx , xxx , xxx  an RPG42 and 3 AT rockets!

 

 

combat madiks ... what can you say

 

 

[Cebi]

I LOVE it that you need to use FAK to revive. Because it adds to the gameplay. Medic should not be some infinite revive machine. Your idea revolves around that you want more space to carry stuff that you don't need for a job of medic.

 

I can give you some tips:

 

1. Carry proper protection - you don't exactly need one of those Special or Grenadier rigs. Heavy plate carrier is enough. Take the best protection for your head (enhanced helmet) because it will protect you from explosives. You can survive a close burst of HE 30/40mm with your helmet and proper body protection. If you took that fancy fedora you would be killed.

 

2. Get somebody to drag casualties to you or crawl to them in smoke. You don't usually need to sprint for longer periods then one bar of stamina provides, if you do, then take PDW weapon.

 

3. Carry a light weapon and 6 magazines. I prefer MXC for its bigger punch and ability to share ammo as it is the most common platform. You can take even fewer magazines if you take Katiba as you can loot dead for ammo. You can save even more weight by taking the assault backpack as it is the lightest one.

 

4. Place your FAKs inside VEST -- This way on a rare occasion of bailing and surviving you can still revive after landing.

[TheScar]

 

 

now this is some wise and logic advice,well played dear Sir!

You had me at

19 minutes ago, Cebi said:

Heavy plate carrier is enough.

*drops pants*

Tonight,in the barracks ...

 

 

[Cebi]

@TheScar

*rips shirt open*

I prefer Hangar Sir!

[GamerbugUK]

11 hours ago, TheScar said:

combat madiks ... what can you say

 

Aye those were the days when everyone was a walking arsenal because you could be, I recall the VR suit being highly popular back then. I do love the fact you can't do this now.

 

1 hour ago, Cebi said:

I LOVE it that you need to use FAK to revive. Because it adds to the gameplay. Medic should not be some infinite revive machine. Your idea revolves around that you want more space to carry stuff that you don't need for a job of medic.

 

I can give you some tips:

 

1. Carry proper protection - you don't exactly need one of those Special or Grenadier rigs. Heavy plate carrier is enough. Take the best protection for your head (enhanced helmet) because it will protect you from explosives. You can survive a close burst of HE 30/40mm with your helmet and proper body protection. If you took that fancy fedora you would be killed.

 

2. Get somebody to drag casualties to you or crawl to them in smoke. You don't usually need to sprint for longer periods then one bar of stamina provides, if you do, then take PDW weapon.

 

3. Carry a light weapon and 6 magazines. I prefer MXC for its bigger punch and ability to share ammo as it is the most common platform. You can take even fewer magazines if you take Katiba as you can loot dead for ammo. You can save even more weight by taking the assault backpack as it is the lightest one.

 

4. Place your FAKs inside VEST -- This way on a rare occasion of bailing and surviving you can still revive after landing.

 

OK I won't respond to all those points as I've been doing this for 3 years now so I know how to medic, but I see where your coming from. I will say you seem to have me wrong though, my idea revolves around carrying less stuff not more, the only thing more I said I would take is some extra smokes. Hell if my medikit fitted in my vest I'd not take a backpack at all and be limited to what my vest and uniform can carry.

 

As for point 4, I will say every time I have tried to revive with a FAK only the menu does not appear. There used to be a glitch where when you respawn sometimes your pack would be empty (so no medikit) but I'd have FAKs. I'd jump on a chopper expecting nothing to be different to before I died, get in the field and boom, no medikit and no revive. Also tried it out of curiousity the other day on Tanoa, dead guy at base, dropped my medikit had FAKs, tried to revie and no menu, picked up the medikit and the menu showed up.

 

However if this is just me being a dummy, then forget the whole topic as this solves a lot of issues.

[Cebi]

@Gamerbug: I got confused by your second post where you said that 10FAKs and Medikit are heavy. I clearly misunderstood.

 

By saying that: "I see where you are coming from." You mean you understand those tips I gave you but don't agree with them? I am sorry but English idioms are sometimes murky water to me.

 

I always carry Medkit and FAK combo, but on a rare occasion when I loose it I was indeed able to revive fallen with FAKs only. I don't know if it is intended behavior. Will test it today to be sure.

 

Anyway, my opinion is this: Medikit and FAKs are essential tools for medic class. Depletion of FAKs is a good tool how to limit infinite reviving. I am against oversimplification.

[GamerbugUK]

11 hours ago, Cebi said:

By saying that: "I see where you are coming from." You mean you understand those tips I gave you but don't agree with them? I am sorry but English idioms are sometimes murky water to me.

 

By that I meant I know what you are saying and though I agree, I already knew them (excluding point 4, which if works will be a revelation to me, and I hope it's me doing something wrong all this time here).

 

Many of the suggestions I already employ, some aren't valid for me for example the PDW weighs only 50 less than the MXC, but the stopping power is hugely reduced, and the mags for both guns weigh the same (weirdly). I do have a pistol only setup but I imagine I might get some funny looks if I used that.

 

I wear a tactical vest most of the time, good capacity and not too heavy with decent stopping power. I've worn all sorts of helmets, and none have ever saved me from anything bigger than a grenade, but thats possibly as vehicles tend to fire in volleys and saturate an area. I save weight and go with a cap these days. I carry the smallest bag to fit in 10 FAKs and the medikit to save weight as well. All my builds are about being mobile where possible.

 

Honestly I don't mind it staying in, and it's true the tactics of FAKs is a nice addition, maybe I should have said remove medikits instead as they just offer infinite healing.

 

It was a topic of discussion and the fact the BI script has the option to remove use FAK on revive; I completely respect your feeling on it.

[Eagle-Eye]

Maybe too advanced for EU1 and 2, but AFAIK, upon arrival at a downed unit, you would first use the FAK carried by the wounded soldier before using your own equipment. I  think most, if not all, take FAK with them anyway, so technically, a medic would not even need to carry a single FAK himself, thus solving the issue of encumbrance. Of course, for contingency, having a few doesn't hurt ...

 

As such, my suggestion would be:

1) Healing:

When infantry is healed by medic, the wounded unit loses a FAK, just like when he would heal himself. Only if he does not carry one, would the medic employ a FAK of his own... Because of more knowledge and/or experience, a medic would be able to heal better than you can yourself. (e.g. own heal = health from 30 to 50%; medic heal = from 30 to 70%)

 

As for equipment: No FAK available in unit / medic inventory = no healing. No medkit available = no problem.

 

 

2) When infantry needs a "big heal" (read: revive), the medic will use a FAK from the wounded unit or himself (for bandaging etc) + his medkit (special tools). 

 

No FAK = No revive, or as a second option, very low health with remaining injuries. No Medkit = no revive at all.

[PERO]

The way BTC revive works is, it either uses a FAK for a revive or it doesnt, simple as that.

 

The reason why you ned FAKs to revive, is for medics to keep an eye on their supplies. It also stops people from taking up medic slots, so they have heal/revive options for playing as a soldier with RPG and tons of explosive charges. That kinda forces them to do their job and focus on the medical assistance.

[Grezvany13]

I just wrote a lengthly post, which got lost since my Internet connection broke while sending... So here's a shorter version

 

On 10/7/2016 at 9:16 PM, PERO said:

The way BTC revive works is, it either uses a FAK for a revive or it doesnt, simple as that.

 

The reason why you ned FAKs to revive, is for medics to keep an eye on their supplies. It also stops people from taking up medic slots, so they have heal/revive options for playing as a soldier with RPG and tons of explosive charges. That kinda forces them to do their job and focus on the medical assistance.

 

This is understandable, although a bit strange that a script is limiting the way to heal/revive compared to vanilla ArmA3.

 

IMHO a medic should only be able to revive when he/she has a MedKit, while using a FAK to heal the person. And since the MedKit is relatively heavy, this will reduce the chance of carrying too much other (unrelated) stuff even more. Of course this is still very "arcade" compared to ACE and not even close to real life, but could be a good addition.

And to make it work, it simply requires a single extra check in the BCT Revive script, which checks if the medic has a MedKit before he/she can revive.

 

Besides that I fully support the idea of @Eagle-Eye to first use the FAK of the wounded/downed person, although this might be a bit harder to code.

 

 

Additionally I would like to see a way for medics to resupply more easily, instead of returning to base, since (especially on EU1&2) a lot of people die and a decent medic will be out of supplies within 10-15 minutes after landing near the AO.

My suggestion would be to have all vehicles filled with FAK's and MedKits, and these should be resupplied when the driver/pilot uses the re-arm/refuel points at base.

 

A good rule-of-thumb for the amounts is to have 2-3 FAK's per seat and 1 MedKit per 10 seats.

So for example the Ghost Hawk (2 pilots, 2 crew, 8 passengers) would have 24-36 FAK's and 1-2 MedKits on board. This then can be used to refill the supplies of the units who fly from one AO to another, or for the medics to refill their supplies while in/near the AO.

[PERO]

A note: I&A3 uses a custom revive, open map and see "derp revive" tab.

Sent from my phone

[Grezvany13]

1 hour ago, PERO said:

A note: I&A3 uses a custom revive, open map and see "derp revive" tab.

Sent from my phone

 

If it's this code, than it's possible to use a FAK while a MedKit is required for a revive (and will use the FAK of the wounded if the medic doesn't have one).

 

All it needs are the following settings in the mission:

derp_revive_everyoneCanRevive = 0; // 0 = medics only, 1 = everyone
derp_revive_reviveItem = 1; // 0 = first aid kit, 1 = medikit
derp_revive_removeFAKOnUse = 1; // 0 = don't remove on use, 1 = remove on use

PS. I know it's not the same as @Gamerbug requested, but IMHO a more realistic (and less prone to abuse) version.

 

PPS. I still think that vehicles should contain (more) medical supplies, so medics can resupply themselves more easily.

[Cebi]

@Grezvany13: I am that kind  of pilot that loads around 50 FAKs, at missiles and some basic ammo (6.5 mainly) into my bird. If the helicopters ware to spawn with preloaded supplies then i would feel less special and might kill a kitten in anger.

[Grezvany13]

22 hours ago, Cebi said:

@Grezvany13: I am that kind  of pilot that loads around 50 FAKs, at missiles and some basic ammo (6.5 mainly) into my bird. If the helicopters ware to spawn with preloaded supplies then i would feel less special and might kill a kitten in anger.

 

I know that there are pilots who do this, but most of the time they only care about crashing the heli's into the AO (eg. last friday; 5 heli's down in 15 minutes, 2 in base, 3 in AO).