What?

[Lost Bullet]

Well, I like to play in EU3.
Most of the times I don't like to play in EU3 when the server is kind of full (Alpha full + almost full Bravo + command, etc) because it really sucks for several reasons.

 

Trying to show people that by following command you will have more fun and trying to prove that by forcing people running down the airfield its not a way to prove a point Origins.

I usually play daily in EU3 and most of time is fun. Logging in to that is not fun. Ever.

 

Good luck bringing people to EU3 with that kind of routine.

[Chuck]

Is this a rant or what? This might of been more helpful having a more informative title on what the thread is about and maybe some constructive criticism will help, like suggesting a way to improve, not just listing what you dont enjoy. 

[Colsta]

Here's my response from what I understood:

 

Without a command structure it becomes one of two things (or both):

- Very heavy load on whoever's ASL
- Chaos

 

I enjoy playing SL. If there's someone else as mission leader (playing as BSL, with ASL or PlatCo leading for example). Otherwise not so much. It's too much work for being complained at for one reason or another.

[Lost Bullet]

This is indeed a rant and also a critic.

I agree with the rules of the server and always try to enforce them in the chain of command when leading any kind of team or reporting bad behaviors as necessary.

 

But this post is not about that but regarding a specific situation that I'm not even aware of the reasons that cause it. Logging in the server and having the admins online forcing people to run down the air field to prove that the chain of command must be respected is not the way to go.

 

If people don't respect rules/gameplay in server:

1) warn them

2) kick them

3) ban maybe?

Admin abuse is never the answer.

 

If I wanted to have punishments I would have joined the real army or just go into another type of server.

I respect the work of the people that make EU3 work and I enjoy (very much) playing there. But I can't support these kind of atitudes and these were exactly the same reasons that made me take a break from Ahoy around 2 years ago, so basically I feel that nothing has changed, only the "faces".

[Blue-958-]

It wasn't exactly admin abuse, the idea was to make the people listen, i.e I could of done it if I had been SL at the time. As I understand Origins had had problems with people not following commands in the mission prior to you joining (Correct me if I'm wrong)

 

PS tagging @Origins so he can see this

[Origins]

49 minutes ago, Lost Bullet said:

This is indeed a rant and also a critic.

I agree with the rules of the server and always try to enforce them in the chain of command when leading any kind of team or reporting bad behaviors as necessary.

 

But this post is not about that but regarding a specific situation that I'm not even aware of the reasons that cause it. Logging in the server and having the admins online forcing people to run down the air field to prove that the chain of command must be respected is not the way to go.

 

If people don't respect rules/gameplay in server:

1) warn them

2) kick them

3) ban maybe?

Admin abuse is never the answer.

 

If I wanted to have punishments I would have joined the real army or just go into another type of server.

I respect the work of the people that make EU3 work and I enjoy (very much) playing there. But I can't support these kind of atitudes and these were exactly the same reasons that made me take a break from Ahoy around 2 years ago, so basically I feel that nothing has changed, only the "faces".

Well Where shall i start...

 

Firstly; The talking and making everyone run down the runway was me being in the capacity of an Alpha Squad Lead, and anyone in that position can do that, and is within that role. Also it proves that people can follow simple orders, which isn't only beneficiary in game, but also in real life.

 

Secondly; There is a system in place for players who disobey the rules, however when there is more than one offender and something that I perceive an ongoing problem, to which informing everyone on how to follow orders, by making them run the length of the runway. Something that wouldn't uncommon in real life to teach people to listen to orders or treat misbehaviour.

 

Finally; Regarding not wanting to have punishments on the server... sometimes it is better to punish everyone, and get a message across than to have one person be kicked, or even several as i could have done during these events, which would have killed the player count.

 

Origins

[Lost Bullet]

Maybe instead of that, if someone is doing something inappropriate or simply doing whatever they want, I guess you can spawn an enemy in his face and punish him on the spot with a following warning that if he was behaving correctly that wouldn't happen.

 

I left when the running event started so I wasn't there after it, but did the running resulted in good behavior? My guess would be that it didn't.

[Copey]

2 hours ago, Lost Bullet said:

Maybe instead of that, if someone is doing something inappropriate or simply doing whatever they want, I guess you can spawn an enemy in his face and punish him on the spot with a following warning that if he was behaving correctly that wouldn't happen.

 

I left when the running event started so I wasn't there after it, but did the running resulted in good behavior? My guess would be that it didn't.

 That would be admin/zeus abuse. And then we would be deep in the shit for it.

 

While I don't like damaging others gameplay on server, I feel that unfortunately sometimes you have to do drastic things on server to get people to listen when they are pissing around. Unfortunately when people are pissing around it ruins other peoples gameplay, often whoever is commanding. In this case origins did something that has woke people up to this fact. I understand why he did it, I've sat people down at debrief, or even half way through a mission and shouted at them for their stupidity. Each commander has their own way of doing things. If this is what it takes to wake people up to this issue on EU3 then I can't say I'm against taking such actions. What needs to be happening is the community needs to help commanders, moderators and staff to show those who piss around, it is not acceptable. It is not something that we can do without players standing up too, or we have to resort to doing things in this kind of way.

 

On a different note, if we followed the moderator strategy of warn, kick, ban. Then by now I'd say half of the player-base would have been banned for pissing around. And then we would really be accused of abuse.

 

I'm going to say something unpopular here, and almost ignorant. Somebody has to say it though.

 If making you run up and down that runway pissed you off, good. I wouldn't want to make you do it, but quite frankly if that's the only way some of you are going to wake up to the shitfest that is going off, then I am not against it at all. Stop people from pissing around, show them that it is unacceptable, and then this shit wouldn't have to happen.

[GhostDragon]

Copey I agree sometimes the leaders do have to do this to enforce the rules admin or not the quality of gameplay needs to be improved by the community and those that lead need to find ways of controlling and ensuring that the gameplay standard is maintained for the whole server. 

[PiranhA]

9 minutes ago, Copey said:

If making you run up and down that runway pissed you off

 Oh come on. 

Spoiler

Did you even get the game genre when you purchased it?

 You will never be special forces.

[BenjaminHL]

People sometimes get nervous to report people though because they don't wanna be a "snitch". I don't feel the punishment was out of line, but instead that no one of lower command status higher got someone to tell the people that were messing around to stop, forcing it to come to the punishment. People should feel anonymous when report bad behavior. (Just my two cents wasn't actually there)

 

Ben

[KPSradical]

6 hours ago, Lost Bullet said:

This is indeed a rant and also a critic.

I agree with the rules of the server and always try to enforce them in the chain of command when leading any kind of team or reporting bad behaviors as necessary.

 

But this post is not about that but regarding a specific situation that I'm not even aware of the reasons that cause it. Logging in the server and having the admins online forcing people to run down the air field to prove that the chain of command must be respected is not the way to go.

 

If people don't respect rules/gameplay in server:

1) warn them

2) kick them

3) ban maybe?

Admin abuse is never the answer.

 

If I wanted to have punishments I would have joined the real army or just go into another type of server.

I respect the work of the people that make EU3 work and I enjoy (very much) playing there. But I can't support these kind of atitudes and these were exactly the same reasons that made me take a break from Ahoy around 2 years ago, so basically I feel that nothing has changed, only the "faces".

 

I have been an Admin on two other communities for about 1 year now (Arma Network alias Steve Sanchez just to name one). The communities closed down do do people stealing the mission file but (Thats besides the point). I will have to disagree with you thinking this is admin abuse. This is more admin friendly than ever. It plays more into the aspect of warning people without haveing to state that they are going to be kicked or banned. An admin always tries to deal with a situation in-game and tries to resolve it there. Kicking people randomly and banning them or using lightning is abuse. Making them run the airfield is not abuse. It plays into the aspect of what the military actually does to disciplin people. I fully back @Origins  desicion and I hope he does it more often.

[Amentes]

6 hours ago, Copey said:

 If making you run up and down that runway pissed you off, good. I wouldn't want to make you do it, but quite frankly if that's the only way some of you are going to wake up to the shitfest that is going off

 

 

In all seriousness though, anyone who's ever tried to run ASL with Alpha, two Bravo teams without BSL, two Pilots and maybe one or two 3-man support squads; yeah, "polite" kinda takes a high dive in a low well.

 

Sometimes the only way to move people along is to yell for a minute.

[TheScar]

curiously read over this this morning while sipping my 4.30 coffee and not that i really am into the situation nor do i know anything about how you EU3 people do your buisness i can sure imagine that when you in lead of a group/squad/army you cant take to much "monkey-buisness" while you try to get your stuff done.

Its with no doubt that measurements have/had to be taken - i think we all can agree on that.

 

But whats questionable (to me) is how a disciplinary call ( forcing people running down the airfield ) is a good way of handling this very situation.

After all,people just push their WASD keys for a extended period of time and be done with it,while in their mind this will only force anger and even less morale (to parts of the group).

Might rethink the strategy here.

 

Like said,not that i care much about this very issue - wanted to drop my 0,02$ as i´ve recall similar exercises in parts of my (clan) career and even back then we thougt its a BS to put it mildly.

No offense ...

 

[Arkod]

I wasn't there, so I may be wrong on something, but here's my opinion regarding issues like this in general.

 

As I understand, Origins made a fireteam (or a squad?) run the length of a runway up and down as punishment for "fucking around" (I assume it's the more or less typical behaviour we see in EU3, where people don't listen or just ignore SL/TL).

 

Now, this kind of punishment may be done in Real Life or some Milsim/Realism communities, but EU3 is a fairly casual server compared to more structured Units. By making a whole team run for however long it was, you're not only punishing that team, but probably someone else as well (It could be the whole server if the team is needed somewhere). Also, running isn't a real punishment in this game, all you have to do is press a button. I consider this more of a waste of time than anything else and EU3 already wastes a good amount of time during normal gameplay, which may be the reason why people start pissing around to begin with - boredom.

 

If someone's breaking a rule, follow your admin procedure, which I assume is the warn-kick-ban. Deal with it fast so you can continue with normal gameplay.

 

11 hours ago, Copey said:

On a different note, if we followed the moderator strategy of warn, kick, ban. Then by now I'd say half of the player-base would have been banned for pissing around. And then we would really be accused of abuse.

 

If you have a moderator strategy, then either follow it or change it. There is no point of having it if you're not going to enforce it. Hopefully people will stop pissing around after they notice that it's actually punished.

[Ryko]

My feeling on this is that people start fucking around because no one steps up to take the reins and get going on the current mission.  We've always had an issue with a shortage of people willing to be Alpha Squad Lead or any other command style role.  There's no doubt it's a tough job and no one wants to be seen as the heavy.  But I also think that people want someone to get the trains moving on time.  I've experimented with different strategies on encouraging leadership roles (with varying degrees of success), but if people have other ideas on how to encourage leadership roles, I'd love to hear them.

 

I've logged on to see full alpha and mat squads, none of which had a squad leader or team leader.  That's saying something.

[BenjaminHL]

Possibly give squad leads the abilty to tp their squad around base so it isn't, "Get in the god damn chopper" but instead boop and everyone is in. I know its a little out there and would need to be limited so it isn't the matrix at base, but it is an idea. @Ryko

[GhostDragon]

no that would be abused by people and tp is just generally a bad mechanic to add to this type of game mode. I feel that it requires work from the community, in general, to help and maybe have a night where people can lead missions but then after we have a debrief to help them understand the strong points of their mission and how to improve this can be done with the team leads and other squad leads as the other units kit up.  

[BenjaminHL]

I just think there need to be an incentive for taking a position that you know is hard and you will probably have to yell at some people even though you don't want to. 

[GhostDragon]

the incentive is becoming a better leader (this is a skill that is required within everyday life. While also achieving the goals outlined within the mission. 

[Ryko]

I like the sentiment @GhostDragon but "the job is its own reward" is only gonna get us so far.  I'm open to any ideas (though I do share your opinion on the tp mechanic in this game mode).

[BenjaminHL]

Ghost is right but not everyone is smart enough to see that. This is the open internet. 

 

[kman]

5 hours ago, Arkod said:

As I understand, Origins made a fireteam (or a squad?) run the length of a runway up and down as punishment for "fucking around" (I assume it's the more or less typical behaviour we see in EU3, where people don't listen or just ignore SL/TL).

 

Now, this kind of punishment may be done in Real Life or some Milsim/Realism communities, but EU3 is a fairly casual server compared to more structured Units. By making a whole team run for however long it was, you're not only punishing that team, but probably someone else as well (It could be the whole server if the team is needed somewhere). Also, running isn't a real punishment in this game, all you have to do is press a button. I consider this more of a waste of time than anything else and EU3 already wastes a good amount of time during normal gameplay, which may be the reason why people start pissing around to begin with - boredom.

 

Some points I would like to comment on.

 

I have logged into server just as Origins called everyone together and announced the "run down the airstrip for f*** around" command.

 

No idea what happened, I considered opting out for 1-2 seconds, but also understood this was a disciplinary thing and so made the run with others without any comments.

 

You mention that running isn't real punishment in game. I would submit, that the sole act of running isn't realy the point even in real life. The point is to make the person(s) responsible to feel guilty about dragging their comrades down with them. That's why units are often disciplined "as a whole" - because there is no "I" in the army.

 

Sure, we are neither an army nor a milsim, but my logic is:

Make EU3 play like a discussion society, and see how that will waste MUCH MORE of everyone's time, than one run down the airstrip.

And the more people are logged on, the more amplified this is.

[Gamerhero]

6 hours ago, Inzaindabridge said:

I just think there need to be an incentive for taking a position that you know is hard and you will probably have to yell at some people even though you don't want to. 

 

The incentive is the amount of people playing on the server. Basically keeping the server alive.

1. No leader = fucking about at base = bored players = people leaving = low player count
2. Squad leader = structure = people being busy with mission = fun = high player count (assuming people listen)

 -> this is where origins point comes in, if people don't listen to the leading element people won't take the slot, meaning we are back at point 1

 

TLDR just listen to the chain of command and all of this could have been avoided.

[lamminrevityin]

Hazing is illegal in most militaries and i think it should be illegal here aswell. this clearly fills the definition of that. that being said i dont think it is a huge deal, and i think it can be done as long as all people agree and it is for example rp reasons. but enforcing the chain of command by hazing is not the way to go.