Lirus ban appeal discussion

[Josh]

Discuss it here not in Lirus ban appeal. Which is also against the rules.

[Shadow]

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

Discuss it here not in Lirus ban appeal. Which is also against the rules.

because they changed the rules halfway through

 

[Josh]

That or come on teamspeak and discuss it. But don't spam someones appeal.

[Josh]

6 minutes ago, Shadow said:

because they changed the rules halfway through

 

What rules were changed halfway through?

[Shadow]

Just now, Josh said:

What rules were changed halfway through?

Suddenly an extra post appeared which dint allow us to post on his appeal if it's not allowed lock the ban appeals for users. It's not hard to do apparantly because they immeadiatly locked it after we posted stuff that shows that liru is on the right side and he didnt break any rules.

[SirMurficus]

I think that it should be pointed out to all who cannot see it that inadvertent advertising is still ADVERTISING.

Subjectively, there is no issue. However objectively, which by the way is how the rules work, there was advertising.

For example, if you see a brand name in a movie, you think "Hah! Spotted ya!", even though it is possible a props guy couldn't be bothered making one up.

Despite no actions tonight being intentional moves made with the intent of furthering their cause, they can be perceived as such, and again, objectively, they are.

 

Moral of the story, ya fucked up. Tough shit. Still love ya.

[S0zi0p4th]

1 minute ago, Shadow said:

Suddenly an extra post appeared which dint allow us to post on his appeal if it's not allowed lock the ban appeals for users. It's not hard to do apparantly because they immeadiatly locked it after we posted stuff that shows that liru is on the right side and he didnt break any rules.

I am sry for you Shadow  but this post 

 Is quiet old  and didnt just apear

[Josh]

Yeah what sozio linked

[SirMurficus]

I hate it when the staff are right.........

[Lone]

This topic appears to have derailed, I'd suggest you use it to discuss the situation, not ban appeal procedure that has been in place for ever.

[P057code]

7 minutes ago, Lone said:

This topic appears to have derailed, I'd suggest you use it to discuss the situation, not ban appeal procedure that has been in place for ever.

Yeah.

 

However, now is not the time or place for us to be discussing the ban, the reasons behind it, or what exactly has occurred that has led to this stage.

I get on well with Liru (and a lot of the other guys complaining about his ban), and can understand their frustrations about everything thats gone on tonight, even if I don't entirely agree with the way in which they've voiced this.

I'm sure that whoever looks into the ban appeal will look at it with an open mind on everything, and doesn't let what has occurred cloud their judgement, then I hope a decision will be made to everyones satisfaction. However, I make this appeal to anyone involved.

Whatever your thoughts on what has happened, don't turn this into a flame war. We're all apparently adults, and know the way that we should behave.

[Josh]

3 minutes ago, P057code said:

Yeah.

 

However, now is not the time or place for us to be discussing the ban, the reasons behind it, or what exactly has occurred that has led to this stage.

I get on well with Liru (and a lot of the other guys complaining about his ban), and can understand their frustrations about everything thats gone on tonight, even if I don't entirely agree with the way in which they've voiced this.

I'm sure that whoever looks into the ban appeal will look at it with an open mind on everything, and doesn't let what has occurred cloud their judgement, then I hope a decision will be made to everyones satisfaction. However, I make this appeal to anyone involved.

Whatever your thoughts on what has happened, don't turn this into a flame war. We're all apparently adults, and know the way that we should behave.

Sums up my feelings.

[kman]

To avoid confusion:

What was exactly the reason for the ban? The fact that IP address of the server where this event was occuring was posted on TS - therefore creating what can be perceived as "advertising" for non-AhoyWorld server?

 

 

[kman]

OK
Let me just sum up what I - as a casual player on AhoyWorld - experienced.

 

Couple days ago I have seen Liru's post that he wanted to run an unofficial gamenight - an even that would last about 1 hour. I signed up thinking it's nice that AhoyWorld members come up with such activity.

 

Yesterday I went to Ahoy TS and found the participating people in one TS room. It was stated that Shadow(if memory serves) will create ad-hoc server instance for this event - which seems reasonable, as not to interfere with usual activity on I&A. The server IP was eventually given in channel description. We logged, had one hour of fun and then went to do a debriefing - to have some discussion what went wrong etc..

 

About 1 minute into debriefing Liru disconnected from TS mid-sentence.
Some people then noted, that he got banned from the server. Since this greatly surprised me I stayed a bit to hear the staff explanation.
I did not caught it all, but seems that the problem was that non-AhoyWorld server address was given out on AhoyWorld TS.

 

Let me say two thing:

 

1) Never during the planning or execution of the event did I have impression that Liru or anyone else is trying to create new/separate community to the AhoyWorld.
In fact, I have chalked this event up as another proof that AhoyWorld is nice and active community.
Apparently, some members of the staff seen this in very different way. I wonder why that is? Miscommunication?

 

2) Even thou Liru might have broken house rules, I would expect that staff would give him a warning that when running event outside AhoyWorld, he needs to use separate TeamSpeak as well. Booting him from TS mid-sentence when there is ~15 other people listening to conversation seems very ham-fisted and paints bad picture.

 

I would appeal to staff, to take a moment and consider, if this could perhaps have been handled much, much better?

 

[SirMurficus]

I feel that taking preventative action to keep a good thing running correctly in the future is the only real way of handling the matter. That is, everyone is happy. Given that what has happened, has happened and nothing has really gone wrong, I struggle to see how bans improve the situation; rendering them moot in my eyes.

Personally, I think that the way to move forward is to ensure that people make a greater effort to adhere to the (very well established) protocols that are in place.

 

However, I would also like to take a moment to appreciate the level of true class displayed by some associates of the offending parties. /s

[David]

2 hours ago, kman said:

OK
Let me just sum up what I - as a casual player on AhoyWorld - experienced.

 

Couple days ago I have seen Liru's post that he wanted to run an unofficial gamenight - an even that would last about 1 hour. I signed up thinking it's nice that AhoyWorld members come up with such activity.

 

Yesterday I went to Ahoy TS and found the participating people in one TS room. It was stated that Shadow(if memory serves) will create ad-hoc server instance for this event - which seems reasonable, as not to interfere with usual activity on I&A. The server IP was eventually given in channel description. We logged, had one hour of fun and then went to do a debriefing - to have some discussion what went wrong etc..

 

About 1 minute into debriefing Liru disconnected from TS mid-sentence.
Some people then noted, that he got banned from the server. Since this greatly surprised me I stayed a bit to hear the staff explanation.
I did not caught it all, but seems that the problem was that non-AhoyWorld server address was given out on AhoyWorld TS.

 

Let me say two thing:

 

1) Never during the planning or execution of the event did I have impression that Liru or anyone else is trying to create new/separate community to the AhoyWorld.
In fact, I have chalked this event up as another proof that AhoyWorld is nice and active community.
Apparently, some members of the staff seen this in very different way. I wonder why that is? Miscommunication?

 

2) Even thou Liru might have broken house rules, I would expect that staff would give him a warning that when running event outside AhoyWorld, he needs to use separate TeamSpeak as well. Booting him from TS mid-sentence when there is ~15 other people listening to conversation seems very ham-fisted and paints bad picture.

 

I would appeal to staff, to take a moment and consider, if this could perhaps have been handled much, much better?

 

 

Actually yes, there was a miscommunication over the teamspeak bans as we had planned to talk to them before dropping the hammer and it was me who was out the loop on that. The actions from them in the aftermath have been rash and obstructive, we clearly explained why we did what we did, everyone is welcome to start their own community and play in both communities, it causes a problem if you link directly to the other one covertly, that is foul play and those who got banned shouldn't be upset that they got caught out, calling us hitlers for actually enforcing our rules is just childish. We haven't banned anyone who is innocent. I asked them if it would be okay to do the same thing and link to 77th JSOC (for an example, we have no beef with them) and they refused to answer so that just leaves me to believe that they thought because it was a small community we would let them advertise. 

 

@SirMurficus this is certainly what we strive for but in a community of this size we can only get so far and we can't please everyone unfortunately, but we try. It is unfortunate but cliques develop and they split, it happens to all communities and if their community is successful it will happen to them too and they'll be unjustly called hitlers, it is how it works unfortunately. 

[kman]

19 minutes ago, David said:

everyone is welcome to start their own community and play in both communities, it causes a problem if you link directly to the other one covertly, that is foul play and those who got banned shouldn't be upset that they got caught out

 

That is the part I do not understand.

As I wrote, there was no "other" community being advertized at no point during the event as far as I can tell.

It was from my perspective one-shot event from AW members for AW members.

 

Also David - what makes you use the word "covertly"? This event was announced on this very forum, how is that "covert" ?

 

 

 

[Josh]

15 minutes ago, kman said:

 

That is the part I do not understand.

As I wrote, there was no "other" community being advertized at no point during the event as far as I can tell.

It was from my perspective one-shot event from AW members for AW members.

 

Also David - what makes you use the word "covertly"? This event was announced on this very forum, how is that "covert" ?

 

 

 

The server IP they linked was named after this other community, all be it I was told last night it was a last minute oversight.

[David]

 

That is the part I do not understand.

As I wrote, there was no "other" community being advertized at no point during the event as far as I can tell.

It was from my perspective one-shot event from AW members for AW members.

 

Also David - what makes you use the word "covertly"? This event was announced on this very forum, how is that "covert" ?

 

 

 

Because it was named, owned and operated by this other community where they were openly handing over their website. They did not at any point tell us that was happening, had they told us that was how it would work we could understand. They were advertising, just not as directly as you would normally see it.

[GrievingGold]

15 minutes ago, David said:

Because it was named, owned and operated by this other community where they were openly handing over their website. They did not at any point tell us that was happening, had they told us that was how it would work we could understand. They were advertising, just not as directly as you would normally see it.

Shadow specifically stated that the server was just up for Lirus operation and nothing more. John McClane was the one at fault for posting the site. There were no billboards or anything telling you to go here or there,it was specifically meant for Lirus OP.

 

Yes, one person advertised. not the whole community. his fault, not the others.

[Josh]

Okay you're making it sound like everyone got banned? The number was originally 3, then people came on ts and started trolling and make spam forum accounts, then another one or two got banned I believe. Not everyone, no one is blaming there whole community?

[SirMurficus]

Did someone mention billboards?

http://i.imgur.com/itfHfmmm.jpg

[David]

Shadow specifically stated that the server was just up for Lirus operation and nothing more. John McClane was the one at fault for posting the site. There were no billboards or anything telling you to go here or there,it was specifically meant for Lirus OP.

 

Yes, one person advertised. not the whole community. his fault, not the others.

Do you have a source of that from before the event? It looked pretty clear it wasn't from our perspective.

[kman]

This thing about luring people to other communities honestly seems little paranoid.
It's not like we are MMORPG hardcore raiding guild, freaking about losing key player(s) in middle of progress.

 

Been there, done that + all the Dramas, Ragequits & Flamewars™. I'm almost crying with nostalgia (almost).

 

PS:
I would speak for giving Liru some leeway about his ban appeal post. He wrote it shortly after ban and was clearly angry (who wouldn't).
Crucifying him over it is child's play, but also perhaps opportunity to be magnanimous.

[Blue-958-]

35 minutes ago, kman said:

This thing about luring people to other communities honestly seems little paranoid.
It's not like we are MMORPG hardcore raiding guild, freaking about losing key player(s) in middle of progress.

Ahoyworld needs players to carry on operating and allowing people to enjoy the servers, if Google lost a bunch of users to Bing do you think they would be particularly happy?