ACRE or TFAR

[GhostDragon]

Smiley, the half duplex is causing more issues, because if asl gives 1 ftl an order then tries to give 2 a order but 1 responds to their order then it fks up resulting in 2 missing the order, this is not fun or helpful to anyone and disrupts gameplay, the radios in vehicles are good because it allows the drivers or gunners to call out things that a FTL might not have eyes on such as contact at the side or front of the convoy. These are things that work well when used well i have not seen it be used incorrectly ever. I find acre gives me a headache more than tfar ever did because i find it just does not work effectively on this server. 

[Ryko]

OK, half duplex is interesting, but also a royal pain. If someone hit mics they hog the entire channel. Also, you can actually call "break, break" and have it mean something. 

 

- R 

[GhostDragon]

4 minutes ago, Ryko said:

OK, half duplex is interesting, but also a royal pain. If someone hit mics they hog the entire channel. Also, you can actually call "break, break" and have it mean something. 

 

- R 

but break break might not be heard because the radio is being transmitted on. its annoying and only half works (also pretty sure tfar has a setting that can make it half)

[Jochem]

1 minute ago, Ghostdragon said:

(also pretty sure tfar has a setting that can make it half)

 

It does not, ACRE has a setting to make it full-duplex

[Lost Bullet]

Can someone remind me of what was the reason to switch to ACRE in the first place? Wasn't the lack of TFAR support for updates?

[GhostDragon]

ah ok, on another point the stable release for ACRE was released 05.17.15 and TFAR 06-10-2015 making tfar the more up to date either way it is looked at.

[MessedUpSmiley]

13 minutes ago, Ghostdragon said:

because if asl gives 1 ftl an order then tries to give 2 a order but 1 responds to their order then it fks up resulting in 2 missing the order

This is why radio protocol is important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_procedure - Nice page I just found

 

14 minutes ago, Ghostdragon said:

it allows the drivers or gunners to call out things

And it also allows them to talk over eachother, basically cancelling each other out in the proces without much effect in the end anyway. The relay to a person in the vehicle with a capable radio should not take much longer than a second.

Problem arising here with the convoys is that everything needs to happen quickly, how about cut down 30 km/h and give yourself a little bit more time to comprehend and make good calls.

 

[GhostDragon]

3 minutes ago, MessedUpSmiley said:

And it also allows them to talk over eachother, basically cancelling each other out in the proces without much effect in the end anyway. The relay to a person in the vehicle with a capable radio should not take much longer than a second.

Problem arising here with the convoys is that everything needs to happen quickly, how about cut down 30 km/h and give yourself a little bit more time to comprehend and make good calls.

 

This is why radio protocol is important.

i can say this to that entire comment as you did to mine, Its a public server i would rather have people talk over each other and something be caught than everyone just here something less important.

 

Another thing, this isn't a realism server stop trying to make it more realistic and keep it fun thats why the majority of the people play here. If realism is wanted make sure that the new server made by kenny is that and dont change this from what it is because the appeal is that it is not realism and welcomes all.

[MessedUpSmiley]

I don't mind the change to TFAR at all anymore at this point seeing we're getting a more serious server anyway and I won't be blocking the switch.

I'm just trying to put both in fair contrast. Trying to make you realise that even though it's not realism I would still like the right choice to be made.

[SkullCollector]

19 minutes ago, Ghostdragon said:

 

This is why radio protocol is important.

i can say this to that entire comment as you did to mine, Its a public server i would rather have people talk over each other and something be caught than everyone just here something less important.

 

Another thing, this isn't a realism server stop trying to make it more realistic and keep it fun thats why the majority of the people play here. If realism is wanted make sure that the new server made by kenny is that and dont change this from what it is because the appeal is that it is not realism and welcomes all.

 

If we need radio protocol there's an inherent bit of realism to that. That's why we have a radio mod in the first place, to make it more structured and authentic. It's far from milsim but required to function.

Protocol will be an acquired skill and most players will just pick up the discipline and format of what they hear as they go. I'd rather have a bit of indirect pressure on players with half duplex than for everyone to think it's okay to burst into transmissions.

[GhostDragon]

1 minute ago, SkullCollector said:

 

If we need radio protocol there's an inherent bit of realism to that. That's why we have a radio mod in the first place, to make it more structured and authentic. It's far from milsim but required to function.

Protocol will be an acquired skill and most players will just pick up the discipline and format of what they hear as they go. I'd rather have a bit of indirect pressure on players with half duplex than for everyone to think it's okay to burst into transmissions.

I dont disagree but the point i am making is that we are not a server where everyone is going to know the radio protocols and stuff so no matter what mod we have its going to be an issue and could be used to talk about both mods, by using it i was trying to show that it was not a valid argument anywhere within this thread.

[Johnson]

I've heard a lot of BS in the past but calling EU#3 a non-realism server really tops it.

The whole original strive for EU#3 was to provide a realistic gaming experience under the title of a REALISM SERVER. This strive many want and is even enforced today; chain of command, radio protocol, ACE, ACRE etc. all mods added to the repo to make EU#3 the realism server it has always attempted to be.

 

I suppose only the people who have been around long enough to see the drastic change of EU#3 are the ones who wish for the original EU#3 spirit and style, so its not entirely anyone else fault as they know no different...

 

Again my reasoning for ACRE.

[Johnson]

2 hours ago, SkullCollector said:

 

If we need radio protocol there's an inherent bit of realism to that. That's why we have a radio mod in the first place, to make it more structured and authentic. It's far from milsim but required to function.

Protocol will be an acquired skill and most players will just pick up the discipline and format of what they hear as they go. I'd rather have a bit of indirect pressure on players with half duplex than for everyone to think it's okay to burst into transmissions.

I agree it does teach discipline and I know for a FACT that the radios are so much quieter and less used unnecessarily while using ACRE.

[Bloo Flar3]

@johnson To be honest the main reason (IMO) for EU3 was team work when it first started. Not "Realism" unless you call backblasting and overdosing people then shoving them in the meat truck Realism then yes it was realism.

Since eu3 started i've never seen it as a "Realism" server nor did other people call it that. It was more of a "Team Work" server, Since EU1 and 2 was full of lone wolfs, team killers and just plain nooblets. It was a massive change for most people. (Plus the stuff we got up too was funny as anything.) EU3 is close to a Semi-Realism server.

 

I'm for TFAR since i'm sick of ACRE breaking alot, and the small bump in the road that can cause radios being blocked.

[Johnson]

@Bloo Flar3 Yeah I guess semi-realism is EU#3, either way I think TFAR is boring and easy to use making radios feel more like simple toys. I think the errors are mostly solved and are defiantly rare now so I literally see no reason for TFAR that isnt opinion based.

[Jochem]

9 hours ago, Ghostdragon said:

ah ok, on another point the stable release for ACRE was released 05.17.15 and TFAR 06-10-2015 making tfar the more up to date either way it is looked at.

 

True, but TFAR isn't being worked on anymore (their might be a release for a bug that pops up with a new ArmA version, but no new features are in the make), while ACRE, and I quote NouberNou, the guy from ACRE (25th June 2016, two days ago):

Quote

We have been in active development this whole time, it is just that there are significant changes in the next version and we really want to flesh them out.

 

That being said though, things have been hectic with real life the last few months for everyone on the ACRE team. Luckily all good news for everyone, but still busy busy busy. We've been on the verge of a public release for 6 weeks now, we just need to get a couple more tests out and done.

 

Also my real life stuff is that I am now working on programming real life radios.

 

Also on the whole realism discussion, I have to say that the mentality changed since the server was first out: people used to be more patient and planning a mission could take a good 20 minutes, something I can't imagine today. So say what you want about EU3 not wanting realism, know some (a high amount of the ones that were here early) do want that realism.

And to end, think about this: you don't want people learning some keybindings (they can change) and learning not to talk at the same time, but you do expect them to learn an advanced medical system (wich even I don't know everything about and I've been using it for more than a year), advanced ballistics, a mortar system wich requires a couple a minutes of preparation to even fire a single shell and not to turn to hard in jets, or they pass out?

 

And to clarify, just in case it wasn't clear: I'm on team ACRE

 

[Blue-958-]

11 minutes ago, Jochem said:

And to end, think about this: you don't want people learning some keybindings (they can change) and learning not to talk at the same time, but you do expect them to learn an advanced medical system (wich even I don't know everything about and I've been using it for more than a year), advanced ballistics, a mortar system wich requires a couple a minutes of preparation to even fire a single shell and not to turn to hard in jets, or they pass out?

A new player does not need to learn any of these things, maybe a bit of medical but just to the extent of 'Use elastics and packing' They do, however need to understand the radios from the very first time they play, and when ACRE fails it can be very disorienting for a new player.

[Jochem]

10 minutes ago, Blue-958- said:

A new player does not need to learn any of these things, maybe a bit of medical but just to the extent of 'Use elastics and packing' They do, however need to understand the radios from the very first time they play

 

The same thing you said about medical is true for radios (TFAR and ACRE): you get a radio, open it's interface, select a channel (either by inputting it yourself or selecting the right channel), and you can talk. All the advanced stuff comes, like with the medical system, by using it. Oh and about terrain interception, as a new play I don't think you'll be more then 300m away from your team anyways.

 

I wasn't really giving an argument against TFAR here, more trying to stop the thing about EU3 not being realistic and ACRE being way more difficult to use.

 

You'll have your point though that ACRE can be annoying sometimes, one can only hope that will be fixed in the next version.

[Josh]

looks like ima have to get used to tfar again ? Unless it breaks or something

[Grezvany13]

As a new player at Ahoy, and not really played with TFAR (yet), my opinion shouldn't be weighted too much for this discussion

 

ACRE: in my opinion a great radio add-on, but has some flaws (not always stable, rather steep learning curve). But the fact that it's able to simulate distortion due range and/or objects is great, and I love the feature to have 2 radios; each one attached to a single ear (left = team, right = platoon).

 

TFAR: as I said, I haven't really played with it by now, and I'm not familiar with the full feature set of this add-on. Although if I read the documentation, and different articles and topics about it, it looks less complex but also has less features.

 

 

As for realism; having any radio system over people shouting on side chat is already realistic enough for me, so the type of radios used doesn't really matter.
To be honest, ACE Medical is still way more complicated than any radio system out there (just like in real life), and both add a lot of realism into ArmA3.

 

One last note: perhaps it's an idea to write a guide about how to use the radio's (when the final decision has been made) and add a link in the TS channel. Also, when new players enter the server who have questions about it; take them apart and help them with their questions/problems (instead of kicking/banning them for "not being prepared").

[Lone]

21 minutes ago, Grezvany13 said:

One last note: perhaps it's an idea to write a guide about how to use the radio's (when the final decision has been made) and add a link in the TS channel. Also, when new players enter the server who have questions about it; take them apart and help them with their questions/problems (instead of kicking/banning them for "not being prepared").

 

I have a lot of time now, and if the mod set settles, (especially the radio mod) I will try to continue my "how to EU #3" series, I diddnt get them all out before because of the sudden change from tfar to acre and the fact my computer died.

[GhostDragon]

If it is the case that acre is still being updated and tfar is not then I agree we should stick with acre and try out the new features, i don't mind just think that for a public server at the minute tfar is is more suitable, but I'm all for sticking with acre.

[JuX]

I have to give the vote to TFAR. It's simplicity will be much better choice for attracting new members.

 

 

[SkullCollector]

59 minutes ago, JuX said:

I have to give the vote to TFAR. It's simplicity will be much better choice for attracting new members.

 

 

How is it easier? For complete beginners, I will argue TFAR is harder to learn.

 

ACRE: "You're a rifleman, you're in Alpha. Take a 343 and tune in to channel 2, use Capslock to talk."

TFAR: "You're a rifleman, you're in Alpha 2. Take an RF-7800S-TR but don't forget the MicroDAGR, you won't have a watch by the way. Enter 202 for the frequency but double-check your spelling. Alpha 1 is on 201, and Alpha as a whole is on 200. You can use an alternate channel and enter 200 so you can hear and talk to your SL. Frequencies below 30 and above 512 are invalid. Use Capslock to talk and T for your extra channel."

 

As long as they have their plugins and mods installed correctly, explaining someone ACRE is a matter of a couple minutes. So is TFAR, but I doubt it's actually easier like people make it out to be. The point of weird keybinds is moot, it takes another minute at most to guide a player through rebinding them, if they need to at all. I played with default ACRE keys for over 5 months and had no issues.

[Amentes]

I really feel like I have to say that if we're at the point where needing to rebind keys is actually something that's even remotely considered as being a hurdle, then I simply have no words. If that's not a bar for entry that people can get behind, if it is unacceptable to expect people to have at least that level of competence.