Snipers and Spotters on EU 1&2 Scopes

[Guest]

So,a couple days ago I bought the marksman DLC and wanted to do some night ops with friends.

 

And we came to a sad discovery that we where not allowed to use the TWS, TWS MG and Nightstalker cause these where only available for squad leaders. So It was basically impossible to do a missions as a sniper while at night. Or I would have to turn up my gamma.

 

But to the great guy i'm (sarcasm) I did not want to cheat by abusing that mechanic and of course it looks complete shit if you turn it up.

 

So my idea is "drumroffel"

 

To give snipers the ability to use the scopes listed above as these are intended to be used on sniper and marksman rifles to not completely block the longrange engagement for snipers at night.

 

 

 

[Shadow]

Might indeed be a good idea ive had the struggle myself of being absolutely useless at ranges further than 500 meters at night because of the low zeroing on the night vision scopes. If possible maybe make it so that they unlock for snipers and marksman but only at night?

[PERO]

Thermal scopes were disabled for everyone except the squad leaders due to everyone carrying them, even not at night. It was also the cause of many, many, many teamkills, when people just sit on top of a hill 400-500 meters from the AO and shoot inside it, without being able to differ between friendlies and enemies.

 

Nights are never really dark so usage of normal scopes is possible if you ask troops on the ground to light the targets for you with a flare. You shouldn`t be lone wolfing as a sniper anyway, you should always be working with a squad/team.

[Jason.]

The problem is that there just aren't any long range night vision scopes in the game.

The only alternative then (as you said) is to use the sights which also get thermal vision. But imo this isn't something that should be available to so many people (squad leaders is enough).

The Marksman and Sniper roles are already very popular, giving them access to thermal scopes would mean half the server would be walking around in ghillie suits.

[Equastro]

Something you could do is disable thermal vision all together on the nightstalker & TWS. These then only have the night vision and normal mode. You could then open these up and limit these to sniper/spotter & squad leaders.
Spotters can still use the laser designator for spotting targets with thermal then.

 

That way snipers & spotters can actually play the way they are supposed to play (long range) during the night and other infantry are unaffected by this change.
It is also more realistic in the sense that any sniper should have a decent night vision scope.

[Iranzan]

Another problem with NV and Thermal Scopes in Arma is how ridiculously overpowered they are. You can see and identify targets that would be beyond recognition range if these were actually scopes that are used in the real world.

 

As of this i would really like to know what you mean when you say "That way snipers & spotters can actually play the way they are supposed to play (long range) during the night". About what distances are we talking here?

[Amentes]

Something you could do is disable thermal vision all together on the nightstalker & TWS. These then only have the night vision and normal mode. You could then open these up and limit these to sniper/spotter & squad leaders.

Spotters can still use the laser designator for spotting targets with thermal then.

 

That way snipers & spotters can actually play the way they are supposed to play (long range) during the night and other infantry are unaffected by this change.

It is also more realistic in the sense that any sniper should have a decent night vision scope.

 

I don't know what goes into disabling Thermal on the scopes, but it seems like a good idea to me. Keeps it fun, rewards teamwork.

[xSniper1982]

I also feel that the addition of a Long-range (500-1000m) Night Optic would be good for Snipers,
however I also see the point from the Staff point-of-view.

These were removed for being a little game-breaking when in the hands of people, who just want kills and, who aren't really co-operating with others (Lonewolfing).

It gives Snipers a VERY large advantage over others in most situations.

But given the fact that people rarely carry flares, and SHOULD NOT put themselves at risk by illuminating an area they're near, Snipers during night operations are at a HUGE disatvantage.

I never understood why they were given to Squad Leaders and not Marksman/Snipers in the first place.
From my view point, it should be Snipers/Marksmen using the long-range night optics as that is their role.

I have had some REALLY good gameplay working with a Spotter who called out enemy positions to me at up to 1200m when using a LRPS during night hours....
It felt extremely satisfying being directed to a target and then searching for them in the shadows/low-light before getting the kill.
But I would be MUCH happier if I didn't have to SEARCH so hard once someone spotted a target for me.
Having a long-range Night Optic is a must for Snipers during night ops.

So - Does anyone know of a way to get NVS working with AMS/LRPS (Mod/script etc?) ????
That would be a better solution in my eyes, than having Nightstalker.

If not, I would then like to add my name into the hat of people wondering if we could perhaps have Nightstalkers added back for Snipers/Marksmen and removed from Squad Leaders.

Also ... Ignore the name, I play all roles as needed.... I just prefer Sniping, it rewards patience.

[Guest]

I'm not talking about sniping with clear weather.

 

Try doing a night op while it's clouded you can't even spot targets without night vision from  400 meters.

and even when using the laser designator you can't see your target anymore when you switch back to your normal scope. 

 

In this way the entire sniper/marksman class becomes useless at night and in my opinion that's the time where the sniper/marksman class should shine most. 

It's  about the stealth picking your targets carefully.  

 

I would even like to invite you and do a side mission with me like that so you can experience how awesome it can be if you have a sniper team working together on a night op. 

 

Considering what a few people say about using flares i tried that an ai shot me as soon as i shot it.

 

Also keep in mind. the ai don't really give a shit if it's night time or not. They will wreck you just as hard if you don't play safe. 

 

Other things i have read. Disabling thermals <--- if this is possible it would be a good solution to the problem. 

[Archon]

I have to agree that there does need to be the addition of an NV scope for longer ranges that snipers and marksmen could use because I have also found this to be annoying. But what I find more annoying is when playing a close combat role at night, which can be some of the more exciting times as it makes enemies far harder to spot, you walk through the AO constantly waiting for enemies to engage only to find that snipers and marksmen have picked them all off from a hill about 1000m away because the enemies are lit up on their thermal scopes like a christmas tree. It may be fun for a small group but it can make the rest pretty bored, and this has been vastly improved since the thermals were restricted.

 

It's about the stealth picking your targets carefully.   

 

I completely agree with this, this is exactly how marksmen and snipers should play, but people abuse the thermal scopes and use them to clear whole enemy squads before the rest of the infantry even get a shot. If we can find a way to disable thermals as others have suggested then fantastic, but for now I think that things should stay as they are, its by far the lesser of two evils for me.

[Cebi]

Found this. But i am not sure how it could be used to selectively disable TI for weapon optics only.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/disableTIEquipment

 

Edit: Also i remember that Ares (zeus mod) has tool for disabling TI or NVG on selected units.

[Equastro]

The link below should be useful.

It discusses how to not only disable all thermals, but also how to include or exclude specific weapons/vehicles:

 

http://forums.a3wasteland.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ic094ctsb53340ocsnkjvcsu32&topic=1490.15

[Guest]

I don't know if ahoy has some amazing scriptwriters who might have an idea to do something like this.

 

If you're a scriptwriter please look at it.  

[kman]

The link below should be useful.

It discusses how to not only disable all thermals, but also how to include or exclude specific weapons/vehicles:

 

http://forums.a3wasteland.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ic094ctsb53340ocsnkjvcsu32&topic=1490.15

 

Seems interesting.

 

As I see it the main reason thermal optics are bad, is that they have unrealistic clarity at max ranges.

If they provided the current imaging up to - say 600m and after that the thermal signatures of small targets (people) faded into the backgroung "thermal noise", it would be fine.

Also ofc, the big - more sophisticated TI equipment on vehicles sould be better then that provided by rifle scopes.

Example(just an example!) of what could be ideal(but probably not achievable):

Vehicle TI distinguishes small(people) thermal signatures up to 900m, large(vehicles with engine on) up to 1800m.

Scopes with TI distinguish small(people) thermal signatures up to 600m, large(vehicles with engine on) up to 1200m).

(hand-held laser designator would probly be somewhere between vehicles and scopes)

After these ranges, thermal signatures will fade into background (in fact some weather conditios like rain should cripple them severely too).

The problem is - can something like this be scripted ?

The thread Equastro suggested seems to allow blocking TI after certain range (not distinguishing size of heat source) which is the next best thing.

If achievable, I can see TI allowed for Marks/Sniper.

PS:

IMO the reason WHY only Squad Leaders are allowed now is:

- they are supposed to direct their squad fire

- this is the only real perk leader slot has

- they can use max MK18 rifle, which means they cannot abuse TI too much at long ranges (and using MK18 instead of MX means much less ammo available)

[Liru the Lcpl.]

In the MillSim experience I have had, TWS and the Nightstalker Optics were limited to squad leaders (or the command team), marksmen, and spotters. This allowed for those who needed thermals to view enemy positions and designate targets with ease to call them out for targets or use thermal for deadly precision in sniping. Everyone else usually got the RCO. I completely understand why these optics are unavailable for the general public but I think they should be allowed for the sniper teams. It makes Overwatch much easier. But in the end, it's the admin's call, this is just my two cents from my experiences. Game on  

[Equastro]

The approach used in my link is a 'dirty' solution. It merely puts up a black screen with a message in the chondition of someone in thermal sight mode.

I think I found a way to do this the clean way, not giving the the thermal option at all. I'll tinker with it later tonight when I'm home.

Both options however do not allow for blurring the targets after a certain distance though, as far as I'm aware. It's either disabled or enabled, with or without a distance condition.

[P057code]

So,a couple days ago I bought the marksman DLC and wanted to do some night ops with friends.

 

And we came to a sad discovery that we where not allowed to use the TWS, TWS MG and Nightstalker cause these where only available for squad leaders. So It was basically impossible to do a missions as a sniper while at night. Or I would have to turn up my gamma.

 

But to the great guy i'm (sarcasm) I did not want to cheat by abusing that mechanic and of course it looks complete shit if you turn it up.

 

So my idea is "drumroffel"

 

To give snipers the ability to use the scopes listed above as these are intended to be used on sniper and marksman rifles to not completely block the longrange engagement for snipers at night.

 

 

I can see the point you're making, but I have to disagree with using the TWS/TWS MG (or even the Nightstalker) for snipers in night time engagements. I was on EU2 a couple of weeks ago with xSniper1982 when we had a pretty great engagement in an AO where both of us were consistently getting 500-1000m+ kills, using the LRPS/AMS/NVS, with the aid of a medic who was working as our spotter. Between us we cleared the way for the rest of the players to come in and finish the required stuff.

We used teamspeak and groupchat in game to the best of effect, with the spotter/medic calling out the reference bearing and target for us, and us calling the shot (using the Lynx and AP rounds is a bonus). A sniper never normally works alone, so I can rely on the spotter for assistance (at least, if I've got someone to spot for me).

 

Marksman is a different thing along similar lines for me. Hes not meant to be a lone wolf type player, just a member of the squad, who uses his rifle as a tool to aid the long range visibility of the squad. again, I'd see them using LRPS/AMS/NVS, along with another team member who can spot using the Nightstalker/TWS/TWS MG, this would mean that he would be the Squad Leaders tool, so to speak. Again, a player may not to work this way, but I don't think a Marksman should have thermal sights, as it may become OP.

[Guest]

I would love to see a recording of that.

 

Cause i really think someone is turning up their contrast. 

Because i can't see shit with the recommend settings for contrast and brightness. 

[xSniper1982]

I would love to see a recording of that.

 

Cause i really think someone is turning up their contrast. 

Because i can't see shit with the recommend settings for contrast and brightness. 

I'll have a look through my footage and see if I still have anything saved, if not, i'll do a recording soon.

[xSniper1982]

On 10/05/2016 at 1:41 PM, D.v.Brandenburg said:

I would love to see a recording of that.

 

Cause i really think someone is turning up their contrast. 

Because i can't see shit with the recommend settings for contrast and brightness. 

 

 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, xSniper1982 said:

 

 

I should have been more clear i meant with overcast. If you have 0 overcast it's no problem.

[xSniper1982]

On 22/05/2016 at 7:22 PM, D.v.Brandenburg said:

I should have been more clear i meant with overcast. If you have 0 overcast it's no problem.

 

Not at all, I understood what you meant, but this is the only Night footage I have.
It's here more to show others how difficult it can be to find targets at range at night...
and this is in PERFECT conditions...

Once the weather comes in it is MUCH harder.

[DerRoteKoyote]

ähhm the ai shoot @ you @ 500m the server is on easy (day and night time) sure the shoot back if someone sitting on a hill and open fire on 1km

the bigger proplem sniper dident shoot that what they should shoot like static hmg mortars or other snipers...

but if you wont to play sniper you need a good spotter and the spotter takes a MX gl some flares ..he is 200-300m in front of you and he can mark targets and bring some light in the darkness that you can use the default sniper scope,

also the mortar(fsg Gunner) got flares ..

and for thoose that using the kir with a ams scope...

 

[Guest]

@DerRoteKoyote 

 

This would work on a private server/scenario but not on the Ahoyworld servers as people would be shooting all over the ai. This would cause the ai to be on high alert and they will start shooting you as soon as you fire the first shot. 

 

Great idea, but it doesn't work that way on Ahoyworld. Maybe try the zeus missions of luetin.

 

DerRoteKoyo