Stepping stone server

[Giddy]

Hello everyone me and a few of the community members were thinking of how we could bridge the gap between the vanilla servers ie EU 1/2 to the vastly modded EU 3. Because the servers are so different we feel that a semi modded EU 1/2 server would fill the gap, Possibly EU 5. This would give a bit more variety to the game play by using minimal mods on EU 1/2 maps and missions. This server would still give people the experience of team work but not be as hardcore. The mods we were thinking of using would be a Weapon's pack, Weapon Attachment pack, Uniform pack, Some form of a vehicle pack and less intrusive form of acre 2. Please tell me your thoughts if you think this is a good idea or not, Would love to get your feedback.

 

 

As of the recent issues in the comments below with some of the contradicting opinions of the community members i feel it would be in everyone's best interest to come up with a simple answer ie yes i would like this to happen or no it's not for me, I understand the reasons why some of the community don't want this to happen but this topic was never created for those individuals that had no intention of playing this server or game night. My original post wasn't meant to upset anyone it was a simple idea to see if people felt the same way but some individuals have taken it the wrong way. Thanks to the people who have expressed their opinion in a detailed way but lets keep it simple from now on. 

[xSniper1982]

I would suggest acre not be added: it causes us no end of trouble on eu3. If you absolutely want a better Vox in game, tfar is probably easier overall to integrate, except my understanding is that it currently doesn't worknow with eden.

Given the small number of people on eu1/2 ts anyway I don't think it would really help. Why not encourage people to use arma's built in VON first, even if it's not great.

As for ace, sure, why not.

- R

Thanks for the input Ryko...

Information like this is what we need to get this working properly.

[John McClane]

The ingame VON would lag waaay to much i would think. So maybe giving TFAR a shot would be a good idea. 

[Amentes]

I'd still advise you to stay away from radio mods. I'd stick with the native systems and TeamSpeak.

 

I do not believe that radio mod systems will work as intended without any predetermined structure, and I believe that your trial period will fail if you choose to go that route.

 

Maybe it would be sensible to advertise this whole thing on EU#1 and #2, and have somewhere for people to vote on what sort of mods they'd like?

 

Considering some want only ACE and ACRE, while others want everything but.

[John McClane]

The native system just is not going to work. With teamspeak we will need to figure out the permission's and make sure the regular player's can whisper with admin's. 

 

And we dont know if it will fail with the radio mods unless we try it. Maybe for the second week.

 

I agree with a Poll to decide which mod's to put on the server. 

[xSniper1982]

Well put John.

We won't know unless we try it.
That's pretty much the theme behind this entire thread....

---Let's try something different, and see how it goes.---

We need information from people, ideas, suggestions for Mods that might work better, possible workarounds for systems that might not work the way we hope.

The more advice and options people suggest, the easier it will be for this to work.

[John McClane]

So let's start listing a few mod's too add to the Poll Please include links.

 

So far+ My suggestion's

 

ACE (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28557)

ACRE (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=11339)

TFAR (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23615)

AH-64D  (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28085)

British Ridgeback PPV (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27955)

F-18 (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22594)

AK Pack (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22862)

 

I will add a new thread with a Poll after more suggestions are made. 

[Amentes]

The thing is, from what Bacon is writing, you're being given a shot at establishing a new server, and the criteria for success is attaining a certain traffic.

 

I doubt anyone wants you to fail, which is why I'm advising you against using a mod that I, and I'd think most of the AWers who have experience with it, believe will function poorly or not at all, in the environment you envision.

 

I see it as given your project a chance to succeed.

[John McClane]

Yeah i get what you are trying to say Amentes. What exactly is wrong with ACRE/TFAR? Ive used it a few times in arma 2 and had some great expereince with it. 

[Amentes]

First of all, I'd actually consider ACRE to be easier on the end-user than TFAR.

 

ACRE involves selecting a numbered channel while TFAR uses user-input frequencies, which all have to be within the frequency range of the specific radio being used. ACRE's method as such is naturally much easier for the end user.

 

To my knowledge, both ACRE and TFAR can use either a realistic one-person-at-a-time setup, or an easy-mode setup that doesn't block up when more than one person is speaking.

 

Both systems have many optional features, such as signals being unable to transmit through mountains and large hills, but also AFAIK non-optional systems such as range limitations on each radio.

 

Both systems use a similar subset of radios intended for specific roles, with a 500ish-meter range radio intended for inter-group communications, and several other radios of varying transmit range, weight and size. The radios required for talking clear across Altis are either built into backpacks in the case of TFAR, or require a backpack to carry, in the case of ACRE. TFAR also has radios built into vehicles, which is one of the few upsides to TFAR over ACRE.

 

Both systems require the players to coordinate which groups are on which net so as not to hear each other, while also ensuring communications between these groups, meaning one or more individuals in each group needs either a second radio, or a secondary channel on their group radio. If you want to talk to someone further than a few kilometers, you'll need more than a small handheld radio.

 

The bottom line is that this can be hard enough to make function on EU#3. Without the predetermined structure detailing exactly who is in charge of bringing which tools, I am very willing to guarantee you that this will end up as a massive hassle that will persist as a neverending spiral of despair, each time someone new joins the server.

 

I know of no communities who have made this work in such a context. These systems simply weren't designed to function well in this context, and as such, likely won't.

[xSniper1982]

Amentes -

So other than the ingame VON - which is spotty at best in regards to funcionality (and the desync it can cause)

and Teamspeak - which struggles with large groups, unless using a whisper system that needs looking into before admin/mods/players can communicate between one another...

What other options are there besides ACRE and TFAR for us to try out/test??

[Amentes]

The main problem, as I see it, is using Voice on Side and Global channels got broken at some point in the past. Group, Vehicle and Direct, to my knowledge, still work fine.

 

TeamSpeak is an easy substitute for Command and/or Side, and you can still use all the map markers you wish in those channels.

[Shax]

about the mods what about the rhs:usaf modpack? clothing wests armor etc. all included

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27149

[xSniper1982]

The main problem, as I see it, is using Voice on Side and Global channels got broken at some point in the past. Group, Vehicle and Direct, to my knowledge, still work fine.

 

TeamSpeak is an easy substitute for Command and/or Side, and you can still use all the map markers you wish in those channels.

Using the in game Voice system causes desync/lag issues,

These lead to voice breaking up and being impossible to understand, as well as vehicles to crash/explode.

 

Teamspeak is a nightmare with a large number of players, causing individuals/information to get lost in the noise.

The Teamspeak communications between channels doesn't work correctly due to the way the permissions for admin/moderators work.

So please, as I asked before, give us another alternative....

If you don't have one, then ACRE/TFAR are our best options.

Also - how about a little British Armed Forces...

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27917

[S0zi0p4th]

So let's start listing a few mod's too add to the Poll Please include links.

 

So far+ My suggestion's

 

ACE (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28557)

ACRE (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=11339)

TFAR (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23615)

AH-64D  (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28085)

British Ridgeback PPV (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27955)

F-18 (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22594)

AK Pack (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22862)

 

I will add a new thread with a Poll after more suggestions are made. 

 

 

about the mods what about the rhs:usaf modpack? clothing wests armor etc. all included

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27149

 

 

Using the in game Voice system causes desync/lag issues,

These lead to voice breaking up and being impossible to understand, as well as vehicles to crash/explode.

 

Teamspeak is a nightmare with a large number of players, causing individuals/information to get lost in the noise.

The Teamspeak communications between channels doesn't work correctly due to the way the permissions for admin/moderators work.

So please, as I asked before, give us another alternative....

If you don't have one, then ACRE/TFAR are our best options.

Also - how about a little British Armed Forces...

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27917

Just gonna say 1 think over mod choices (which you guys have to pick yourself).

Make sure that all the mods which you are choosing are working together and are fully working without error's .

Also don't pick a mod because it change something which isn't gonna get used or is only a side missions reward there are better mod packs out there for that 

 

Also we gave you a option for not using ACRE or TFAR  

 

The main problem, as I see it, is using Voice on Side and Global channels got broken at some point in the past. Group, Vehicle and Direct, to my knowledge, still work fine.

 

TeamSpeak is an easy substitute for Command and/or Side, and you can still use all the map markers you wish in those channels.

These channels work perfectly fine  and are new user friendly 

[xSniper1982]

Sozio -
I explained the problem with the in game voice, and the Teamspeak in the post that you quoted....

Why do people keep ignoring what is being said.


As for the Mods themselves, I think the idea right now, is to get a list of Mods people are interested in first, and then,

narrow down the ones that will be usable based on compatibility etc to find the most stable/maintainable setup.

[TheScar]

Why do people keep ignoring what is being said.

 

Same could be said about your post,dude

Thing is,performance of the server and accessability for users is the main priority - therefor you want to keep the mods on a level which it does not confilct with either of these - several mods have several (minor) issues or are hard to understand/use for the general "i just downloaded this game" customer (which is still your goal to attract).

 

I dont even see the need for such a server in the first place,because you want ACE > join EU3 (apart from all the upcoming questions of user HOW TO BLABLABLA) ....  Acre and tFar not rly needed for better gameplay (imo) and the usual mentioned method works fine if you setup channels (TS) or use a customized group to talk to

Hmmm,only stuff i "could" see usefull might be the ShackTac stuff (HUD,close quarter enhancement,etc) but this could be done via allowing the server key and ffs why you want clothes?

 

Summary,i dont have one - i just do not see the need for this in the first place and all the drama about it

 

Sincerly

EU1 loyal fanboy,Side Mission conquerer,epic lover

[Gripe]

The ingame VON is a non starter. It doesn't work, it never has and never will, unless BIS redoes the whole thing. We get it every day, especially bad in helos, where it both cuts out so you can't understand a word *and* lags out the helo. This includes group and vehicle. Direct works up to a point, but it's very limited.

 

Teamspeak works fine for squad level comms, and between squad leads, but because of the way Ahoy TS server permissions are set up, regular users can not whisper to John McClane for example.

[razgriz33]

Has anybody official stated that we will get a server to do all these things?

Have you, the reader of this post considered how much of our available resources this might tap into?

Von works fine in small groups of 10 or less. So stick to direct, group and vehicle and use TS for side chat calls. Only problem is, is you need discipline in order to communicate effectively no matter if you choose mods or no mods.

Re:above post,

gripes I would be very interested to see von lag out a helicopter. Please shadowplay this because I've never seen it before. Von used to work back when arma's server routing was through game spy, since the steam migration we lost a lot of capability

Scarface, you're on point again sir and I agree with you whole heartedly

P.p.s. The TS permissions

are an easy fix, it was done to protect admins from whisper abuse and let them have peace and quiet when they needed it most. Just a nod from the right chap and I'll sort it

[ParabolicAJB]

Only problem is, is you need discipline in order to communicate effectively no matter if you choose mods or no mods.

I think this is a really important point to consider regarding other ACRE/TFAR type mods for communication, I personally don't know of any high profile ones. No amount of mods can compensate for a lack of discipline, the mods can only facilitate better comms with discipline. This could also be related to the point of the more 'relaxed' approach this proposal is aiming at, as some of the rules on EU#3 are there specifically to add enough discipline to communicate effectively (I think this is the principle of Amentes point).

I think the process/rules of communication need to be determined before the most appropriate mod/method can be selected.

[Giddy]

This topic was created to see if the Admin and the community supported the idea of another server or game night for Ahoy World. As of the current situation only two admin staff have supported the idea of this, I get the distinct impression that none of you want this to happen for what ever reason whether it would be no resources or funds, We have various people who are willing to volunteer to make this happen and we are currently testing Ace 3 on I&A to see how it performs. The mods i described in my original post were to get people on the same track as to what the end result of the server or game night would be. As of the the issue with some form of TS integration, I proposed the use of a minimal form of Acre 2 because i wanted more people to use TS to encourage more coordination and teamwork than EU 1/2. We are trying to find out what mods work best with the untested I&A and to get more feedback on the mods that people would like to see, If the server or game night is not well optimized or the mod file size is too big then we have failed to accomplish what we set out to do ie good fps and to reach out to more people who want to sample some mods.  

[PERO]

Alright, lets do this!

 

First of all, I am seeing a lot of words being thrown around about not actually referring to the topic. Please refrain from that.

 

Secondly, currently it seems that both ACRE and TFAR are suffering from the new Eden update and do tend to bug out. Plus, they are a bit complicated for any new Arma player. As many people suggested, use in-game VON, it seems to be working fine (beside Side/Global/Command channel), but they can be bypassed by either TS or typing in game. They can be added at a later point, when their perfomance will be stable.

EDIT: has anyone tried to set up whispers between the channels, not certain clients?

 

If you are looking for mod suggestions, I would strongly suggest to check when was the last mod updated, in the last couple of months should be okey, any further back, the mod might not work anymore. Start with simple stuff, small-sized mods and then build up. The modpack should be a step between EU1/EU2 and EU3, please keep that in mind.

 

Slight offtopic:

Staff didn`t want to enter the conversation because we wanted to hear EVERYONEs opinion, before we would start participate. But with your "hatefull" discussion between EU1/EU2 players and EU3 players, you made use intervene before planned. Both groups should consider eachothers opinion and make the most of it.

Edited March 30, 2016 by PERO
Forgot to add something

[xSniper1982]

As Giddy mentioned , we do have people testing some things regarding certain Mods like ACRE/TFAR, and others, to see how they're handling at the moment.
As you say, there are some issues since Eden update, so depending on how long it takes to get everything organised, they will likely not be include initially.

I keep seeing people mentioning this - As many people suggested, use in-game VON, it seems to be working fine - and as I have stated on multiple occassions this hasn't been true for some of us in EU 2, I can't speak for EU 1 as I don't spend much time there.There are issues with desync when Drivers/Pilots use the Vehicle chat, and it has caused a few crashes.
I can't offer any evidence, as we tend to avoid using it because of the instability... Someone might be willing to do a few tests to see if they can show this at some point.

- has anyone tried to set up whispers between the channels, not certain clients? -
We have, a few weeks back, and it still didn't allow proper communication with people given certain permissions.
It will however work for group communication, as far as we could tell, but until the permissions issue is dealt with it will still cause problems when trying to communicate with Admin/Mods.

The Mods 'lifespan' suggestion is a good thought, thanks for that, hopefully once we get a decent list together, we can have a few people test them for compatibility.

[P057code]

As Giddy mentioned , we do have people testing some things regarding certain Mods like ACRE/TFAR, and others, to see how they're handling at the moment.

As you say, there are some issues since Eden update, so depending on how long it takes to get everything organised, they will likely not be include initially.

I keep seeing people mentioning this - As many people suggested, use in-game VON, it seems to be working fine - and as I have stated on multiple occassions this hasn't been true for some of us in EU 2, I can't speak for EU 1 as I don't spend much time there.There are issues with desync when Drivers/Pilots use the Vehicle chat, and it has caused a few crashes.

I can't offer any evidence, as we tend to avoid using it because of the instability... Someone might be willing to do a few tests to see if they can show this at some point.

- has anyone tried to set up whispers between the channels, not certain clients? -

We have, a few weeks back, and it still didn't allow proper communication with people given certain permissions.

It will however work for group communication, as far as we could tell, but until the permissions issue is dealt with it will still cause problems when trying to communicate with Admin/Mods.

The Mods 'lifespan' suggestion is a good thought, thanks for that, hopefully once we get a decent list together, we can have a few people test them for compatibility.

We had a buzz round last night on an I & A server running nothing else but ACE and CBA on it, and everyone was favourable towards ACE once they got used to it (for some reason, I managed to seemingly fly a bit better, despite managing to land a MD-500 on a flagpole above spawn ) I don't know what else they're looking to test, but I'm sure there'll be a lot of feedback coming, either in this thread, or in other areas.

[P057code]

Quick thing.. Has anyone considered an AI modifying MOD such as Vcom?

[Arkod]

Quick thing.. Has anyone considered an AI modifying MOD such as Vcom?

 

There is some discussion about it here: http://www.ahoyworld.co.uk/topic/5388-making-the-fight-harder/ , ASR AI is used as example.