EU1 & EU2 NOTICE TO PILOTS RULES ARE CHANGING

[zissou]

Okay so a few points after a couple of months of the new rules. 

We still have some shit pilots. 

Not enough pilots are repairing. 

Zeus players are fixing or replacing helis when they kinda shouldn't, but 45 players waiting for transpo makes it necessary. 

It hasn't improved the overall standard of piloting. 

The really shit pilots leave much quicker (but only when there are a few of them) if it's only one or two then the good pilots seem to suffer. 

Admins are not receiving enough reports about poor piloting (or general rule breaking) (guys we might not be overjoyed at being interrupted but we don't blame the reporting player we blame the useless pilot or the tker.) 

A group of bad pilots can quickly bring the server to a standstill. 

Pilots are improving in some cases but not all. (fewer fly overs of active aos). 

 

So in my mind the rule change has been a mixed bag that wasn't as successful as I would have hoped. 

Points system as described sounds great but who's gong to create/maintain it? It's far too complex as described. 

Whitelist of pilots will never happen it's not what aw is about. 

Zeus players will fix helis for the server if needed but should avoid if possible. 

Pilots destroying helis will be punished but we need to know about them. 

 

[Cebi]

I had seen a variation of the system I described implemented. I am not pulling this out of a magic hat. If there would be any demand or interest for it I can ask if part of the code can be shared and dissected by someone who is more versed in computer science then me :).

 

Every solution which will not involve rule changes will eventually boil down to: "Who will do this... thing?!"

 

@Jason. :

The system I described might be too evolved but can be simplified to something like thumbs-ups through action menu from passengers instead of credits (flying long routes solved).

Progression is always a good thing in my eyes and when somebody loves MH-9 I don't see a problem with that although I might add that there are helicopters which offer to a skilled player more utility then little unprotected "hummingbird". Ultimately progression can be left out and we will be left with bare-bone solution for misbehaving pilots.

 

In my opinion, all leaderboards in the world can not solve problematic pilots on a public server where the majority of players can not be bothered to read rules.

But as someone wise said to me: "You can't game design stupid out of people."

[xSniper1982]

1 hour ago, zissou said:

Okay so a few points after a couple of months of the new rules. 

We still have some shit pilots. 

Not enough pilots are repairing. 

 

Admins are not receiving enough reports about poor piloting (or general rule breaking) (guys we might not be overjoyed at being interrupted but we don't blame the reporting player we blame the useless pilot or the tker.)

 

Pilots are improving in some cases but not all. (fewer fly overs of active aos). 

 

So in my mind the rule change has been a mixed bag that wasn't as successful as I would have hoped.

 

Pilots destroying helis will be punished but we need to know about them. 

 

 

This is the crux of it for me.

Most people are still stuck in the old mentality of "It's damaged, destroy it".

It has been improving though, more people are requesting repairs and more pilots are willing to try and recover their Heli.

Unfortunately there still aren't enough people willing to actually tell an Admin about poor piloting/heli destroyers.
I regularly get people telling me via Teamspeak/in game chat, that someone is crashing far too often, or that they are destroying Helicopters that could be recovered.
I do inform the bad/inexperienced pilots that perhaps they should get more practice when the server is less populated, or via the editor.. and no doubt many (in EU#2) have seen me tell those planning to destroy their Heli to stop, and to request a Repair spec/Engineer, and explain to them that it is not ok to destroy a vehicle unless it is 100% unrecoverable.

From that point, there is nothing more that I can personally do, and that is where I refer players to the Admin Staff, more than half of them immediately give up and cannot be bothered to even message an Admin, and so I end up having to do it myself.

We knew these rules wouldn't change things overnight, and yes it's still a little frustrating when these things happen, but given more time... and less free weekends ... Things will continue to improve. But only if we continue to guide those other players and explain things to them as they begin their experience here.

[Josh]

Whitelist all pilot slots bar one or two. Thus allowing pubbers to still be able to fly and get noticed. But whitelist members and decent players. Could be done via an xml very easily. Aw already has a system in place for xml. Pilots could be recommended via users and Spartans etc. Or they could apply. 

 

God id even offer to do the i&a code for this. Think I could do it haha

 

Sent from work. Can expand on this idea if required too.

 

----Edit

 

So upon review we use 5 pilot slots. My suggestion: whitelist 3/5 leaving the remaining 2 for pubbers. 

[Jason.]

6 hours ago, Josh said:

My suggestion: whitelist 3/5 leaving the remaining 2 for pubbers. 

 

I agree with the idea, but personally I think whitelisting 3/5 of the slots is way too much.

1/5 or 2/5 would be enough, at least to begin with.

 

The ratio of bad/new pilots to good/known pilots is pretty high, so 3/5 would make it very easy for the listed pilots to get a slot, but very hard for newer players, which isn't what we want for the public servers.

[Josh]

Yes a reserved/whitelisted slot for pilots would be good. Maybe one or two. But it'll never happen here at ahoy. I've been told that too many times before. 

 

Ohwell. Hooray for eu1/2 

[Josh]

Hmm. Maybe! Time will tell

[zissou]

okay the reason whitelisting won't happen is because it's not what ahoyworld is about we're an open community. Many good pilots are not on ts are not on the forums and that's okay of course we'd prefer if they got involved but that's their choice. A rank structure would be close to impossible to manage how would ranks be assigned? how would they be monitored? the best we can do is kick poor pilots from the server and encourage good flying.

[PiranhA]

5 hours ago, zissou said:

good flying

 

Too bad only those 2 words can have so much to explain. 

[Liru the Lcpl.]

Alright, throwing my helmet into the ring to try to help formulate a possible compromise to Ahoyworld's open community and a few concerns talked about by the players.

 

What if we added a 6th pilot slot but reserved it for a whitelist? Something like this doesn't take away from anyone within the community because it's merely an additional slot for the TRUSTED and WELL RESPECTED pilots to take. I understand that some of the best pilots are not on the forums nor on TS but if you could just get a list of players who are known good pilots (I can think of 5 of them on the top of my head) and reserve a pilot slot for them in the emergency of the pilots are derping out and getting the ground troops killed left and right, this could be a possible solution that could potentially work based on what I have just read.

 

The idea can be taken further, but only if it is considered. And to be honest I'd rather see the time spent implementing a possible solution to this rather be spent on I & A 3, but that's all my opinion.

 

Also, just a thought, but driving isn't really that bad!

 

Looking forward to reading the replies, stay alive everyone!

[Josh]

3 hours ago, Liru the Lance Corpral said:

Alright, throwing my helmet into the ring to try to help formulate a possible compromise to Ahoyworld's open community and a few concerns talked about by the players.

 

What if we added a 6th pilot slot but reserved it for a whitelist? Something like this doesn't take away from anyone within the community because it's merely an additional slot for the TRUSTED and WELL RESPECTED pilots to take. I understand that some of the best pilots are not on the forums nor on TS but if you could just get a list of players who are known good pilots (I can think of 5 of them on the top of my head) and reserve a pilot slot for them in the emergency of the pilots are derping out and getting the ground troops killed left and right, this could be a possible solution that could potentially work based on what I have just read.

 

The idea can be taken further, but only if it is considered. And to be honest I'd rather see the time spent implementing a possible solution to this rather be spent on I & A 3, but that's all my opinion.

 

Also, just a thought, but driving isn't really that bad!

 

Looking forward to reading the replies, stay alive everyone!

This man speaks good works. I think this is something that should be thought hard about. Because it could be a very good help in the solution to helping pilot issues. 

[DomT]

18 hours ago, Liru the Lance Corpral said:

Alright, throwing my helmet into the ring to try to help formulate a possible compromise to Ahoyworld's open community and a few concerns talked about by the players.

 

What if we added a 6th pilot slot but reserved it for a whitelist? Something like this doesn't take away from anyone within the community because it's merely an additional slot for the TRUSTED and WELL RESPECTED pilots to take. I understand that some of the best pilots are not on the forums nor on TS but if you could just get a list of players who are known good pilots (I can think of 5 of them on the top of my head) and reserve a pilot slot for them in the emergency of the pilots are derping out and getting the ground troops killed left and right, this could be a possible solution that could potentially work based on what I have just read.

 

The idea can be taken further, but only if it is considered. And to be honest I'd rather see the time spent implementing a possible solution to this rather be spent on I & A 3, but that's all my opinion.

 

Also, just a thought, but driving isn't really that bad!

 

Looking forward to reading the replies, stay alive everyone!

As someone who usually likes to take a pilot slot, I really think this is a good idea, this would mean that there is no limitations on the 'publicness' of all the slots, we're just adding a slot to ensure troops actually get to the AO without numerous deaths.

[Rave]

Christmas noobs....

[PiranhA]

2 hours ago, TonyPestroni said:

you know the pilots are doing what they are supposed to do when theres active helis waiting in base.

 

Until you get in and find out the pilot is flying into a new AO full with enemy gear used against you and your fellow travelers. 

Until you get in and find out the pilot is a tree hugging vegetarian with a distinct hate against arma infantrymen.

Until you get in and find out the pilot is going on a mission to the moon couse he likes the kerbal space program.

Until you get in and find out the pilot is like the dutch politics and is going nowhere.

[Guest]

I think white listing 2 or 3 pilot slots would be a great idea. 

Adding another slot not so much a good idea. 

 

We have enough pilots most of the time or at-least people willing the fly.

Having 5 slots, already means 2 or 3 pilots idle. When ao is fought for. 

[Liru the Lcpl.]

8 minutes ago, D.v.Brandenburg said:

I think white listing 2 or 3 pilot slots would be a great idea. 

Adding another slot not so much a good idea. 

 

We have enough pilots most of the time or at-least people willing the fly.

Having 5 slots, already means 2 or 3 pilots idle. When ao is fought for. 

Refer to what Zissou already said.

 

If you really wanted a change that did not infringe on the community standards that AhoyWorld strives with as dictated by Zissou, you have to look for ways to make changes to add to I and A while leaving the original integrity of I and A to keep said standards.

 

But it's up to our Ahoverlords...

[TheScar]

... just a quick rant on changing the mission by adding a 3rd GH and disabling co-piloting @ the MH9

This is about as contradicting the rule change as it gets - seriously,who thougt this would be a good idea? 

And not even a news mentioning this ... 

 

 

[Cebi]

@TheScar: Quick rant it is. Could you please elaborate why do you think it is contradicting? Any posible solutions which comes to your mind?

 

I agree than comming change was poorly comunicated on forums.

[TheScar]

Simple.

Adding a 3rd GH and "reseting" the respawn timer so the birds respawn immidiatly is the poorest move for getting people to take care for their equipment.

I know (and mentioned it) it is hard to uphold said rules 24/7 but this solution now cannot be serious,i already got tons of screenshots with idtiotic pilots and such,but today as i was trying to access (my) MH9 i noticed it isnt possible anymore,so for now if there s no pilots on you trust to get their job done,you r forced to drive because you cant pilot the only available thing we had all those time anymore.

Reads and sounds butthurt,but yea - it really pissed me off this morning ...

 

Possible solution :

- cap the change (usual chopper layout/MH9 accessable as copilot)

- (re)write a script locking pilot slots to players available (5slots = >60player,4 slots =>50 player,3 slots = >20player)

- enforce the rules (2 warnings > kick)

- build a wall

 

 

 

[Cebi]

Confession of the pilot:

 

Saturday evening I flew players around and was shot down on two occasions. I crash landed my bird, secured transport for pasangers, marked my crash site and requested assistance in chat. Sadly no regulars were online so nobody came. I respawned both times and left the heli where it crashed.

Sunday evening I crash landed once. And when I saw that all other pilots could not autorotate I stopped to do so too. Suddenly I spent more time flying then the day before. Sure if you autorotate players tend to praise your skills...but you are still stuck on the ground sitting on your butt next to your fuelless heli with no support coming. Repair spec is supposed to give you enough fuel to RTB, but most of the time it sadly does not work (speaking from my experience only).

 

It was many times fun to autorotate and provide players "mission" to recover my heli, but in the environment of EU1 with players which don't cooperate it is not fun anymore. And with the addition of faster helicopter respawn times the rule of not destroying crashed helicopters feels like a spit in my face (slight exaggeration).

 

Hence, I humbly suggest:

15min respawn on all the helicopters and exemption from clean-up script. 

 

[Jason.]

@Cebi I have the same feelings.

 

But before we go back to longer respawn times the refueling problem needs to be fixed, as that is often the biggest problem of a crashed helicopter, not having any fuel. 

It's one thing to have to wait for a repair spec to come and repair your heli, but to require a fuel truck to be driven (or lifted) to your heli as well is too much to expect from these servers.

 

Also I don't think it would be a good idea to stop helicopters from de-spawning (assuming that's what you meant), as I can imagine it would cause a lot of helicopters to go "missing".

[Liru the Lcpl.]

I remember one of my favorite missions of GRAW 2 (Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2) was the missions "Get me Rosen". The first part of the mission was being inserted solo in order to take down a few insurgents, then demo a black hawk that had crashed in order to prevent the insurgents from having media coverage of with the black hawk in order to use it as propaganda. So when you guys have to make an emergency landing near an AO, why don't you have this option?

 

I commend this recent rule change, and think it's a step in the right direction, but there are a few things that should be addressed and tweaked because of how playstyles occur on EU 1 and 2.

 

First off, you RARILY see a repair specialist or an engineer outside of a vehicle group or a coordinated group of people on TS. They're freaking unicorns, and unless you know someone whos currently a R.S. or engineer, you're pretty SOL as a pilot, forced to wait around next to a downed chopper begging for someone to help because destroying it would be against the rules, but then again, you're going to be out there for a long period of time, not flying people to and from AOs, which is technically "not fulfilling your role", also against the rules. I've actually had to see 2 different pilots have to explain to admins why they were at an AO, simply because they couldn't go anywhere and were "waiting" for someone to be nice and drive or fly all the way to them to repair the vehicle, which doesn't always happen, and the pilot is forced to respawn or leave the server due to boredom.

 

it's situations like what @Cebi has described that causes some pilots to be caught in a catch 22 within the rules, and forces them to be grounded as they try to wait it out for someone to go and help them.

 

And let's be honest, no one really wants to play that R.S. or engineer role unless they need it for a vehicle. plenty of other people would prefer a more specialized combat role to get more action and bring different gear, especially since most people just get flown to the AO anyway. Also, no one really wants to have to be the person that assists in going out and spending their time repairing the chopper if they don't have to (that process is described in @Jason. 's post above mine).

 

Now the tricky part: how do we fix this catch 22? There needs to be a change somewhere, but where should it be? I don't think we need any scripting changes here, I just think we should allow the ability for pilots to  carry a few demo charges WITHIN the chopper in order to use them if there's no dedicated repair team available, just like the GRAW 2 example. Then, the pilot can just get a quick evac with the next chopper inbound to the AO, or extract with friendlies if the AO is completed.

 

Just my two cents.

 

On a secondary note, WHY DID YOU TAKE AWAY THE COPILOT ABILITIES?!? I know, pilots are the only ones supposed to be able to fly, but now, when server population is low during its off hours, you HAVE TO have someone as a pilot or else you have to freaking drive cross country to every AO (which I won't lie, I do it all the time, but to most people that like the convenience of the chopper this is a slap in the face...)

Now, when the pilot roles are gone, and no one replaces them, the server's population tends to die off quick for the night... :/ At least bring the little(humming)bird's co pilot capability back, that way at least small groups can enjoy its utility if no pilot's are around...

 

On a final note, there seriously needs to be some form of announcement for these types of changes. The only way people knew about this in advance (which was only a single day) was if they overheard one of the admins talking about the impending change, then the information spread like wildfire among the TS user base, which isn't the same size as the forum user base. All we need is a quick changelog in the News and announcements section, or even the I and A changelog which I will link below:

http://forums.ahoyworld.net.www389.your-server.de/topic/726-aw-invade-annex-changelog-and-download/

This is an issue I have seen both with EU 3 changes and I and A changes, and I hate to sound like an ass here, but could you guys at least tell us what and when you're making changes to the game modes we play on your servers? Pretty please?

 

Just Liru's 2 cents...

[Winter]

Like the rule change, even if it isn't new!

[fir_nev]

On 14/06/2016 at 0:55 AM, Liru the Lcpl. said:

First off, you RARILY see a repair specialist or an engineer outside of a vehicle group or a coordinated group of people on TS. They're freaking unicorns, and unless you know someone whos currently a R.S. or engineer, you're pretty SOL as a pilot, forced to wait around next to a downed chopper begging for someone to help because destroying it would be against the rules, but then again, you're going to be out there for a long period of time, not flying people to and from AOs, which is technically "not fulfilling your role", also against the rules. I've actually had to see 2 different pilots have to explain to admins why they were at an AO, simply because they couldn't go anywhere and were "waiting" for someone to be nice and drive or fly all the way to them to repair the vehicle, which doesn't always happen, and the pilot is forced to respawn or leave the server due to boredom.

 

it's situations like what @Cebi has described that causes some pilots to be caught in a catch 22 within the rules, and forces them to be grounded as they try to wait it out for someone to go and help them.

 

And let's be honest, no one really wants to play that R.S. or engineer role unless they need it for a vehicle. plenty of other people would prefer a more specialized combat role to get more action and bring different gear, especially since most people just get flown to the AO anyway. Also, no one really wants to have to be the person that assists in going out and spending their time repairing the chopper if they don't have to (that process is described in @Jason. 's post above mine).

 

Now the tricky part: how do we fix this catch 22? There needs to be a change somewhere, but where should it be? I don't think we need any scripting changes here, I just think we should allow the ability for pilots to  carry a few demo charges WITHIN the chopper in order to use them if there's no dedicated repair team available, just like the GRAW 2 example. Then, the pilot can just get a quick evac with the next chopper inbound to the AO, or extract with friendlies if the AO is completed.

 

Just my two cents.

 

On a secondary note, WHY DID YOU TAKE AWAY THE COPILOT ABILITIES?!? I know, pilots are the only ones supposed to be able to fly, but now, when server population is low during its off hours, you HAVE TO have someone as a pilot or else you have to freaking drive cross country to every AO (which I won't lie, I do it all the time, but to most people that like the convenience of the chopper this is a slap in the face...)

Now, when the pilot roles are gone, and no one replaces them, the server's population tends to die off quick for the night... :/ At least bring the little(humming)bird's co pilot capability back, that way at least small groups can enjoy its utility if no pilot's are around...

 

I was playing FSG gunner and I saw a new pilot reprimanded by other pilots because damaged choppers were simply left unattended without asking for repairs and they had to look for the 'missing' choppers.

 

I always read in chats that after a repair, they still cannot fly due to empty tank. With enemy CAS around, we sometimes have trouble bringing fuel truck to the downed chopper.

[DutchFLC]

Maybe an idea too not only increase the respawn time of choppers but also of pilots? That will discourage noob pilots that crash their chopper after 1 minute on the server too hang around and keep crashing before an admin gets pissed and kicks them

 

And maybe giving the AI jets not 600/unlimited rockets will also help reduce number of crashes (dont know if that bug is still the case btw)