CUP - Is it an Upgrade

[Reidy]

So tonight the repository finally did the update of which we all knew was coming, entering a transition period between the now and then the end goal of the mods they wish to use. They main mod to leave our collection at this moment is the TRYK pack, with the new appearance of CUP Units, Weapons and Vehicles with their ACE compatibility mods also.

 

I haven't really extensively looked into the CUP mods, exception of the terrains, until tonight where I spent a good amount of time until a point where I can truly say I've gathered an opinion of the mod. Personally I really don't like the weapons, and this is a huge down flaw to me as we will be using them quite often, we have SMA also however this pack mainly only contains assault rifles. The other weapons e.g. the SAW or other squad support weapons will be down to the CUP pack once we finally remove the RHS pack which used to provide our M249s and M240s for the MMG squad. The scopes and models for the gun, I can truly say are horrific after using SMA and RHS equivalents. The sounds also are unappetizing however this is a down to preference whereas the textures and overall quality of the weapons can be clearly seen and agreed.

 

The clothing also shares this bad quality as well, and after speaking to many others about this they agree with the fact that the CUP uniforms are a bad quality from the modeling of how it fits onto the players body, all the way down to the textures used. Vests and Helmets likewise with a noticeable lack of helmets. This however is an issue that can be avoided with the confirmed fact of an Ahoy World Uniforms mod to release shortly to add back the advantages of TRYK, without the issues it brought with it. However this doesn't apply to the units that we will be pitched against. This I personally will view as a huge flaw within the Mod pack as such vast difference in the quality of the units.

 

 

I personally don't like the CUP mod however this is a matter of opinion due to I don't believe in the re-occurrence of the ArmA 2 items into the ArmA 3 Game is a good idea, more of a "been there done that" as I've accumulated more hours on ArmA 2 than ArmA 3 so far. Along with my personal preferance of the A2 textures and quality of models doesn't fit into the Arma 3 environment as anyone whose played both the games can tell you, one of the huge differences between the two games is the Graphics within them.

 

Whats the rest of the communities thoughts on the CUP mod now that most of us have had a hands-on experience with it? 

 

[Blue-958-]

I'll use a phrase that I 've heard and agreed with on TS "It looks like its been drawn by a five year old with blunt crayons". However I have also heard that "Its going to be improved in the future" and that's great if true but that time is a LONG way off by what I've seen of the models so far. Is it worth keeping what we have weapon-wise until CUP looks better?

[Miczils]

I would use SMA guns because they look better, sound better, handle better. 
But CUP games have 10% of SMA's, RHS's and even default Arma 3's weapon recoil, i use them because they're a bit op, not for the low quality models and other stuff   im sorry, but they do "look like drawn by five year old with blunt crayons" I like the vehicle addons tho, and, well lets see. Now everyone will be using CUP, just because its obviously easier to play them... 

[Colsta]

It can only get better from here on out, eh?

[SkullCollector]

There has been word of an amazing plan for the modpack and EU3 in general, and from what little I heard, I can't wait for it. But I have to agree that it's a seemingly unreasonable downgrade from the RHS quality we got used to, especially if no one knows to what end it's implemented.

 

This is not a rant. We will probably get a lot out of it in the long run, yet for now we're left in the dark with low-quality assets while we could have kept the previous stuff until the Community Upgrade Project has received an upgrade in and of itself.

 

Is this a public beta? Are there things you want genuine live feedback on because you can't test them in a closed environment?

[Zak]

With regards to TRYK, i am personally embarking on a project to rescue all the usable uniforms and face wear from it, and make it into a smaller package.

[GhostDragon]

in the long term i agree with the change because it is a community project and big things are happening NOW with the mod pack. the textures will only get better with time. 

[Amentes]

I think it's important to keep Function over Form in mind here. Having played this series of game since before it was even called ArmA, I've never been used to anything looking pretty; that's a new development in '3.

[GhostDragon]

I will Say that i do like how a lot of guns use the same mags (g36,m16,m4) this is so useful when out in the field.

[PERO]

Let`s be honest, we all look at the model and say "this is a really nice model, great textures, great sound, great feature". Whoever says he doesn`t, is a liar (don`t take it to seriously).

 

I feel all the content being used on EU3 should be up to Arma 3 standards or better. Honestly, CUP isn`t. Let`s keep the standards high, content good.

 

I partially do agree with Amentes, it`s not ALL about the look, but keeping it on Vanilla A3 standards is a "must go" for all the current modders. If they don`t follow it, it`s most likely their mods won`t be used.

 

If the whole CUP pack would be on the level with RHS stuff, I would never be against the switch, but the current state of both mods favours RHS by a mile.

[Ryko]

I think I've spoken to a lot of folks about why we are integrating CUP, I'm going to add my thoughts here as a player.

I have no problem with the aesthetics of the CUP weapons and vehicles - I'm much like Amentes in the sense that I prefer function over form.  As I look at the weapons I find I actually like BIS' interpretation of some of them, even 8 years after they were released (Arma 2 came out in 2009).  People have mentioned that they weapons don't look as good, but this is mainly because our hardware is better than it was 8 years ago, and we can see textures and low-poly weaponry now (especially when compared to the finer textures and higher-poly models in, say, the RHS pack).

I'll use the M16A4 / M203 as an example.  RHS models it like thus:



whereas CUP models it thusly:



I vastly prefer the CUP model, because I can actually see the texture of the rifle: RHS has chosen to go with a darker model, which essentially gives me a black shadowy lump.  For reference, this is what the M16A2 with M203 actually looks like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher#/media/File:M16A2_M203.JPEG

See the slate grey magazine?  The fact that the receiver doesn't look pitch black like the stock and muzzle?  I'm not sure what RHS's texture guy was thinking with this model.

Where CUP falls down is the fact that they use the original models for the weapons, while RHS has built theirs from scratch.  This is very apparent from the first person views of the weapons.  RHS:

 

CUP:



The knob on the left side of the receiver is the most obvious offender, being efficient with the geometry to make something that looks like a circle.  Looking down the barrel, you see it even more: the reticle on CUP is 16-sided, where as with RHS it's very much a circle.

However, all of this is secondary for me: once I'm in the game, I'm thinking about how to play the game, and am not distracted by poly count or textures.  The other thing here is I am very much going to be taking a scope, so the first person component of the sights becomes nullified.

That's the texture component.  After that, the RHS sounds actually quite bothered me for the M16 (or any M4 variant): it uses a POP style sound as opposed to what I know is a very distinctive sound for the M16.  The thing about sound design is that unless you've actually fired the weapon, and know how to translate that sound from the firer's perspective into the game, you have to rely on audio and video you find on the internet, and where you are in relation to the gun when the sound is recorded, and the type of recording device you use, drastically change the nature of the sound.  It's not surprising to me that BIS, RHS and SMA all have different interpretations of what the M16 sounds like when it's shot: everyone's going to have their personal preference.  In this case, BIS feels the most "right" to me.

So, with these two components addressed, and the fact that CUP adds tons of weapons and vehicles, units for mission makers, and an ever-expanding and open roadmap for integration and expansion of content, I'm very pleased that we're moving with CUP, and I won't be sad about moving away from RHS.

-R

[LEO]

i'd like to keep like to keep rhs and cup to get the best of both worlds like cup has a lot of new vehicles and wepons but the quality and health of some of the vehicles
are of the scale.

lets say the t72 (obr 1982 no era) the rhs one tok one shot from the side and went op in flames and wen i tested the cup one it tok 4 shots to the side with AP ammo befor going down. and also cup lacks a uniforms for a lot of the units ingame wich gives them the defualt csat/nato/aff gear and i find that and the t72 case to be very emerson braking. but i am wiling to give the cup wepons a chanse. plus i like seeing the lav and some odder units beang added.

 

so i say keep them both 

 

(be aware that english is not my main language)

[Pastry]

so i say keep them both 

 

As cool as RHS is, I believe that would bloat the repo to an unreasonably large size unfortunately.

[Ryko]

Keep in mind that we are also developing our own uniforms pack, which includes uniforms from the TFAX mod (check it out).  So yes, I was also underwhelmed by the uniforms present in CUP (1 desert uniform! eek) but this will be solved by the internal MOD.

[LEO]

but what wil hapen with the wacky as h*** damage model on the tanks

[Rave]

Tryk again? - looking forward to the cutdown versions though.

[PERO]

TFAX is not the same as TRYK Rave

[chicken_bananas]

What i realised from playing with CUP weapons and what bothers me most, is that some weapons seem to take 3-6 shots to take an enemy down, which is too much in my opinion.

[Amentes]

Using more than one set of weapon mods, I don't see us ever getting consistent and sensible damage values across the board. That, to me, is part of the package deal we take when we want access to a wide variety of weapons from different mods.

[HumbertKing]

I checked the uniforms from the TFAx mod and I must say I found the international stuff pretty nice, but It lacks camos like Multicam (OCP) and ACU which were in RHS, they are included in TFA though, is that mod going to be included as well? That would be awesome.

[MessedUpSmiley]

To answer the question; yes.

 

Didn't notice any difference what-so-ever when playing. It just comes down to shooting the enemy and it's not like you're playing a game of "Hot or Not" with them. Get over the texture and think past the imperfections. It's quite good and they will be improving a lot better and faster than RHS will.
Keep in mind I was not pro-change either, but this is the way to go.

[kennychr]

I am working on something that hopefully will get the best from both worlds but nothing is given the greenlight yet =) 

[Reidy]

The idea of it WILL be improving and its not there yet, but it will be "soon" is a bit bizarre really. Why wouldn't you wait for the mod to be at that ideal quality of models textures etc before making the switch? Why switch to a work in progress? To me at least it feels like we are using an unfinished mod with a variety of placeholders!

[GhostDragon]

The idea of it WILL be improving and its not there yet, but it will be "soon" is a bit bizarre really. Why wouldn't you wait for the mod to be at that ideal quality of models textures etc before making the switch? Why switch to a work in progress? To me at least it feels like we are using an unfinished mod with a variety of placeholders!

Its all about time, it is better for the admins and by that everyone for them to make the switch now so that the new missions (Valiant being the main one) can be made with the new assets and AI meaning that the mission will be more stable when released rather than getting it stable on old mods then trying to hotfix/redo it down the line. 

[ParabolicAJB]

Whilst I agree the RHS stuff has better appearance etc.  I am very much in favour of a greater level of standardisation than we had previously, if this means a short-term compromise for a longer-term gain I am in support, however at the moment I (and I am guessing many others) don't have any assurance of the length of the wait or size of the gain - which is the cause of this anxiety!