General Census: Force loadouts, remove Arsenal.

[Josh]

Okay so this is just a general CENSUS to see what everyone votes for.

 

Take into account that i'm only doing this to hear what everyone else thinks.

 

Also take into account this does not mean we will change anything so do not worry.

 

Feel free to discuss below.

[Pancake]

Oh god yes, I used to be all for full personalisation of kits, but after seeing people running around with sniper kit (spotting scopes and rangecards), explosives when their role doesn't require it or just trying to recreate Rambo, I am now for forced loadouts with limited customizability (i.e. you can grab a red dot sight from a box and a couple of extra mags at most).

 

So long as the loadouts you get given aren't completely bat-shit insane, like on Zargabad, the PLT Engi comes with 13 mags, 4 charges, 5 SLAM mines and a claymore, not to mention 2 defuse kits and M26 triggers (which is fucking bloody nuts, he and the rest of CMD shouldn't be seeing that much action that warrants 13 magazines), then I'm happy for forced loadouts. A flag that allows you to reload the kit you spawned in with would be good too so you can re-arm back at base.

 

Failing this, could harsher punishments be handed out for not playing the role? As I often go Engi seeing an alpha rifleman place a charge on an objective whilst I'm running over makes it feel like a waste of time playing in that specific role. Same for most medics, everyone seems to carry 20+ bandages and 5 of each needle.

[Minipily]

To be honest, I don't really care what happens.

 

I would of thought it would be common f*cking sense to not carry 20+ mags and not carry a crap ton of medical supplies. I've said it before and i'll say it again, you should be carrying: 4 basic, 2 packing, 1 tourniquet, 1 morphine. THAT'S IT. You are ruining the medics job by being a medic on your own. In addition, assistant AT or MMG should NOT be carrying the specialists weapon such as another MAAW or 240. Assistant's just carry ammo and should use a basic rifle, something like a standard issue M4.

 

I do agree with Pancake though, I'm all for being a bit creative, I understand if you wanna recreate an Isreali loadout or a British or something, I really don't care. BUT, the fact people are carrying a bunch of stupid sh*t that would not be carried with that loadout is silly. I honestly think at this point, forced loadouts might have to be brought in, but, if you're gunna do that then PLEASE actually look at some real military equipment because no offense but the standard already are pretty bad. Like Pancake said, a PLT Engineer shouldn't be carrying much magazines. Usually the magazines will vary between 6 - 12 (some roles may go lower) dependent on where they are stationed, a platoon engineer should be carrying 6+1.

 

What ever happens happens. I usually play roles nowadays that don't require a special loadout, such as a Tanker or Pilot, where my gear is only there to protect me when I need to bail and run back to Command.

 

In the end, I still have fun on the server so I really don't care that much.

 

PS. The SEAL Team 52 special forces clear team carry suppressors in a LOUD environment lol luetin sh*t is pretty annoying too. Really? Suppressors in broad daylight with Bradley's and choppers flying around, pfft.

[Fraggloid]

Failing this, could harsher punishments be handed out for not playing the role? As I often go Engi seeing an alpha rifleman place a charge on an objective whilst I'm running over makes it feel like a waste of time playing in that specific role. Same for most medics, everyone seems to carry 20+ bandages and 5 of each needle.

 

I feel as though as this is the best option. Removing freedom from choosing a loadout would, for me, remove a large amount of the fun from the server. As long as people remain sensible with their loadouts, and there is a clear, up to date guide as to what can and cannot be taken, there shouldn't be an issue.

[Ryko]

I've had great games with the vanilla loadouts.  Here's my suggestion: if there's a way that the Platoon Commander can "requisition" specific kits (ie., they could have access to the Virtual Arsenal) that he can hand out to players who need / want / cry for it.

[Karate Pyjamas]

Perhaps a generic load-out guide per role would be good on the forums. Especially when it comes to additional stuff. Also, give logi something to do, I'm heavily cutting down on the amount of mags I carry and a few days ago I had to have AT's flown in because none of my riflemen were carrying them or they were already used. That was brilliant.

[DakimDragco]

While i agree with fixing some things, like uniforms, i dont agree with fixing weapons beyond only alowing Nato/Russian weapons according to the map we play. What would make sense is to limited attachments like DMS, LRPS and other long range scopes to marksman roles, and force Rifleman roles (including SL, TL, AT, AR and Gren.) to use apriopiate sights no higher then 4x acog sights.

 

Uniforms are the biggest issue here, seeing people running around in hoodies and Taliban hats is just ................ We need to keep to the correct uniforms depending on the terain. So maybe giving some limited choices like a desert, woodland and dedicated crew uniforms would be perfect. We realy dont need 4 or 5 different desert camo options.

 

Thing is, balance is the isue here, we dont want to force people to having no choice at all, but neither do we need people testing out every one of the 40000+ combinations of gear before each AO. 

 

PS: i do sugjest leaving grenades and items such as rangecard and clickers in there, the miscelanious category holds manny items that are very usefull. Also things like binoculars can be restricted to NV versions only. (So no thermal binoculars.)

 

 

 

I feel as though as this is the best option. Removing freedom from choosing a loadout would, for me, remove a large amount of the fun from the server. As long as people remain sensible with their loadouts, and there is a clear, up to date guide as to what can and cannot be taken, there shouldn't be an issue.

Best way to limit this is to only allow basic quickclot bandages to non-medics. This will allow the stopping of bleeding temporary, but will not fix it long term.

[Amentes]

I'd like to keep Arsenal in.

 

I usually spend the wait checking out what everyone else is bringing, and I often "correct" people's loadouts when I see weapons, scopes or launchers that should not be present. I've never had anyone not accept my correction, actually.

 

That said, I am sure everyone who's ever been on EU#3 have, at one point or another, heard me nag on about how far too many people are using backpacks for basic roles, carrying too much ammo and medical gear, etc.

 

Sometimes I check dead bodies. Yes.

 

 

Despite this, I'd much rather see some sort of target weights for different roles. Medical gear does not weigh much, granted, but I believe that's more of a mentality issue than anything else.

 

Moreover, I'd love to see some of the ammo selections removed. Nothing sucks more than running over to what you think is a dead guy's M4, only to find he packed an ammo type that doesn't work in your HK416, or vice versa.

 

This comes from a guy who once got last-man'ed on the Villa roof in Zargabad, with an M249 and 40+ enemies closing in. Please limit ammo to the types that work in all the weapons.

[Adshield]

you don't need to force people to stop making their own loadouts you need to just advise people on what each role should have and how to make good loadouts 

for example making a list of items that should be included in a medic role loadout e.g. 15 of each bandage ...

you have to think, is this a full realism milsim server or is it a server that fits within the space between casual and milsim.

remember not everybody may want to play as the Americans using M4 and marpat .

[Guest DwayneBrooklyn]

If it was limited to a stock loadout that everyone spawned with and you couldn't change a thing then that would suck so bad.

 

But going somewhat along the lines of what Minipily was saying, if there was say some presaved loadouts to choose from e.g. Israeli Soldier, SEAL team soldier, SAS soldier and so forth, and the uniforms and loadouts we're accurate to IRL then I wouldn't mind giving that a trial. 

 

Thing is, noobs will be noobs and you'll always get people taking stuff to battle that isn't designated for their role. I myself when I started out did the same, as I'm sure you all did, but through experience I've realized taking 20 morphines to battle isn't my role, nor is it required!

[Plant1ing]

@Josh you've hit center. Love the topic. For me, everything immersive is an eyegasm and music to my ears.

 

1.1. Rifleman by default in US army corps carries 6 magazines. It depends on the mission if he needs more or "carryall".

1.2. I dislike when TLs, and riflemen carry m136 variants around. Don't get me wrong but that is also special purpose weaponry.

1.3. None of assets should carry morphine,atropine or epinephrine in their medic stuff. It's a really strong drug and if we have even more advanced medical system (fingers xcrossed and hopes for that day). that things could cause heart attack. Right treatment should be provided by experienced medics on the field. I mean I'm running in almost red bar and I can take epinephrine without causing any harm to my health.

1.4. Limit MAT of carrying many rockets... well they can wipe all AO. No fun in that. No tactical approach. Introduce more tanks so they need to choose which will be golden luckies of staying alive, till logi team brings them more rockets.

1.5. I've seen guys carrying rainbow of smoke grenades. Only TLs,SLs or PT engineer should carry various colors of smoke grenades.Riflemen - white smoke only. Officer shouldn't use smoke grenades at all, neither anything droppable... That means he is in CQB. He is in a wrong place.

 

2.1. For immersive plays I've changed that blinking white light to blurry the screen because that is more realistic one. Heart pumping blood in my eyes and pressure in my head from running or panicking if I get shot or dodged bullet or explosion. Even high pressure heart ticking should be nice when you are out of breath, remove that green bar on bottom left corner. Assets would take proper breaks all the time.

2.2. Better audio breathing. You know when you run and then you are taking breath in short repetitions and suddenly even breathing gets hard and you stop breathing for a moment. Then you hear your heart pumping. Soundstage becomes dubbed. You can't hear sorroundings clearly.

Show me a player on EU#3 server who would go all Rambo mode then.

 

Enable Elite-only mode

Modify trigger so penalty on running is more expressed.

US army corps: 40lbs -150lbs (cca.18kgs - 68kgs) depending on missions. I don't see anytime soon going into combat leaving behind our backpacks and equipment in temporary F.O.B. Saving private Ryan Pay attention on what Cpt. Miller is doing.

 

 

And my vote goes to... none. Whoever is creating loadouts.... good luck with that one. You will have to brainstorm really good to create universal loadout. Or just read this but only for reference. I'd like to create it and I'll still enjoy in creating it but I'm still lacking scripting technique.

 

I've changed multiple uniforms, multiple type of vests, multiple helmets, various misc items. Now everything feels empty. I came back to MTP camo, to my trusty m4 with 7 mags, 2 grenades, 2 concussion grenades, 2 smoke, sig 226 with only one spare mag and I still weight below 20 kgs. And I rung ACOG or holosight without that 3x zoom. If it's daytime i choose acog if it's night I make sure i go in CQB. I was in love with HK417 16inch. She was a stunner once. But the sound of m4 or m16 just tickles my ears.

[ranarick]

Would love it if we atleast could we using the same uniforms so we look like one unit per map (maybe switch default uniforms per map or such idk), but allow choice of weapon. 

[Guest DwayneBrooklyn]

what p1anting said, not quoting the whole thing b/c it's bloody huge!

 

1.1. It's difficult to apply IRL loadouts to in-game. You think how often when going on a real life patrol does a soldier engage into a full scale battle. It rarely happens, but compared to ingame where it's a certainty, I believe extra ammo is a necessity. I often share mine with my squad mates if it comes to it.

1.2. Agreed

1.3. I like the idea but the current ratio of medics to soldiers is inadequate. Having a queue of 10 soldiers in battle waiting for a shot of morphine would be a disaster. A good idea would be to add a medic to every squad and remove them from the SL's.

1.4. Don't really play MAT but yeah, sounds okay.

1.5. I rarely carry smoke, the effects of it seem negligible IMO. But nonetheless I do like your idea.

 

Not so hot on leaving the gear behind. As you say realism is everything to you, dropping your gun and doing your own thing would probably number your remaining days in the military. The US for example has strict punishments for those who do this kind of thing.

[Alex Gambino]

Cool idea but I think it's fine as it is. There isn't too much in the arsenal but there is a good amount to allow for the flexibility of different personalities.

[Josh]

Awesome stuff so far guys love it! Looking like a lot of you would like to see us expand the "play your role thread".

Which could be something I easily look into with expanding it to include say a suggested load out for each class. I could work on that.

[darkstar1426]

Nice idea, I personally think that the Arsenal Box should stay but if its possible restrict it to certain kits i.e a rifleman to only be able to pick between 5.56 primary weapons and 9mm handguns (the handguns shouldn't be a problem as I see a lot of people running around with Glocks) and for his kit he should be able to modify the way his character looks in all aspects however only the NATO gear should be available on maps such as Panthera. For the launchers sake the rifleman would be only able to carry the M136 or the AT4 but thats the moderator discretion.

Long story short make it specialized loadouts, but give some room for difference (one person can run the L86 and the other an M4).

Thanks.

Edit: Im gonna get a bollocking for getting the L85 and the L86 mixed up. Battlefield 4 y u do dis?

[Amentes]

On the subject of loadouts and what regular grunts should and should not be bringing, it may be worth mentioning that I've never seen people in leadership roles, myself included, ask for any special tools to be brought.

 

I've had the thought on occasion. You know, looking over a mission, and deciding you wanna breach a compound wall using a collapsible ladder, and then figuring out who is gonna bring that.

 

This is a major reason why I personally have all non-specialty loadouts not using a backpack, so that leadership can decide that someone in Bravo needs to bring a ladder, or whatever other macguffin, and that I can then voulenteer for the job.

 

I've never actually been in a situation where it was needed or made any sort of sense though. I'm still hoping it will happen.

[Guest DwayneBrooklyn]

On the subject of loadouts and what regular grunts should and should not be bringing, it may be worth mentioning that I've never seen people in leadership roles, myself included, ask for any special tools to be brought.

 

I've had the thought on occasion. You know, looking over a mission, and deciding you wanna breach a compound wall using a collapsible ladder, and then figuring out who is gonna bring that.

 

This is a major reason why I personally have all non-specialty loadouts not using a backpack, so that leadership can decide that someone in Bravo needs to bring a ladder, or whatever other macguffin, and that I can then voulenteer for the job.

 

I've never actually been in a situation where it was needed or made any sort of sense though. I'm still hoping it will happen.

 

I've been in only a handful myself. Sometimes the idea gets shot down by die-hard rule enforcers who feel obligated to keep order when an admin isn't around!

[Plant1ing]

Just to put into perspective, when I slot for an engineer this is my kitbag loadout: 1x satchel, 1x toolkit, 1x wirecutter. I put one demo block inside my west and that is it. That way I can repair, cut fences, blow up radio or destroy UAV or Heli... enought for two AOs, probably yes.

If creating designated loadouts for every team is difficult maybe we should have forum post with all weapons and how many of something to carry around. Like a cheat sheet for medic but for designated roles.

 

I like idea of us carrying all the same uniform. I agree that ingame MARPAT looks awful, but maybe some guys like it.

@Caboose was a guy who was enforcing having all the same uniform. And guess what, nobody complained. He was rather shocked the other day he was TLing and his team came to him and ask him which uniform he wants them to carry. So yeah, that is the spirit of EU#3 players. We want to play as a team.

 

Was having also conversation with @Amantes about using Combat Life Saver and moving it with a team. Yeah that should work. We can also test it, if it donesn't work... well we just go back to our old SL+Medic stuff.

 

Edit:

@Amantes:

Like you've said, riflemen shouldn't even carry backpacks. But that all depends on the mission and if we want to play a 4 AO on the fly, Logistics and such.

Ladders are really buggy. First if you want to go over the wall, like if you are climbing the ladder on some of the buildings you are exposing whole body over the horizon. You need a second ladder for other side. Some buildings even don't have solid roof. it looks like they have but when you go on them you completely fall inside that non accessible building and eventually die. You really need to deploy them correctly.

 

 

@DwayneBrooklyn

-reply to mine 1.3; Don't get shot . I'm lucky one that scavenges ammo from fallen comrades. I hate them when they are all carry hk416 rounds and not m4s.

-1.4 addon: one thing that a lot of MAT missile specialist are doing wrong. When MAT missile specialist fires a rocket, first thing to do is "kiss" the ground. You are becoming a primary target for any EV or EI inside AO. MAT SL should be in close proximity to you and inform you about next possible EV contact or EI in vicinity. MAT missile specialist is the only guy who shouldn't watch the fireworks. And yet everybody likes to play as a MAT. I still don't get it why.

-1.5 Try throwing smoke on EV, Start sneaking to it. Try dropping smoke infront of enemy MMG gunner. Start going prone in front of him. See what happens.

 

The part of throwing your backpack you understood completely wrong. Maybe in movie there's isn't a scene when they pick their gear up again. You won't go into CQC fight with 100lbs on your back. You will dispose your equipment in safe place. Finish CQC and come back for your equipment. Since running and resting still doesn't work like a real thing you can actually carry 60 kg on you of equipment and preform just short breaks here and there without actually endangering any of your mission or your team. Finishing the mission successfully without any casualties is the most important part.

 

Because of hot chick on your avatar I do accept the apology of writting my name wrong.

 

Offtopic

I've been in only a handful myself. Sometimes the idea gets shot down by die-hard rule enforcers who feel obligated to keep order when an admin isn't around!

 

 

I'd like to keep an order because sometimes as I've said new fresh players join for the first time when no moderators or admins or field ambassadors are online. I'm ashamed if they see Cowboys riding Heavy machinery or flying around base and fooling around. I as community member should support and help new players and guide them as I was guided when I've joined for the first time. On EU#3 you don't play just for yourself, you play for the team. If new players see they can do what others are doing, they will do exactly the same. If a player wants to drive a tank or fly a helicopter or preform stunts without breaking the rules, There's always editor with the same maps we are playing on so player can test his abilities. If a player has any questions regarding anything, there will always be a player who can show him around and how to interact with equipment and sorroundings.

[S0zi0p4th]

I've been in only a handful myself. Sometimes the idea gets shot down by die-hard rule enforcers who feel obligated to keep order when an admin isn't around!

So what you saying here is when a admin isn't around people are allowed to break rules's

[DakimDragco]

-1.4 addon: one thing that a lot of MAT missile specialist are doing wrong. When MAT missile specialist fires a rocket, first thing to do is "kiss" the ground. You are becoming a primary target for any EV or EI inside AO. MAT SL should be in close proximity to you and inform you about next possible EV contact or EI in vicinity. MAT missile specialist is the only guy who shouldn't watch the fireworks. And yet everybody likes to play as a MAT. I still don't get it why.

 

I just want to add that regarding MAT, if me and Johnson play MAT we actualy already do alot to not be completly owning the AO. For one, we rarely if at all take HE rounds with us, sticking instead to HEAT only for hard armor targets. Also, we dont engage anything bellow a BMP, so we leave GAZ/UAZ for the alpha/bravo unit to deal with. We are well aware of the fact that we can spoil the fun if we dont keep our engagements in check.

 

Also the maximum loadout for missiles is only 5, that is including one preloaded in the launcher. Add maybe 5 more if we have a ammo bearer. That may seem like alot, but often you have nearly 10 hard armored vehicles in the AO, and the fact that some tanks need atleast 2 shots to destroy, and that amount isnt realy that much.

 

What people are doing wrong with MAT, is expecting us to hit a moving target at +1200m distance. Our rockets are unguided, and thus hitting a moving target at 600m is a dificult thing, let alone something that far out. For longrange engagement of armor at beyond 1K distance, you need a HAT team with Jav's.

[Stuffedsheep]

After reading all posts on this thread and looking at the topics poll results, I can see there is a slight majority of players who prefer picking there own uniform oppose to getting a forced one.

 

Originally when we first created EU#3 the plan was to remove VAS and VA all together. We did this because the idea of the modded server was and still is to have more serious gameplay. With this kind of gameplay you were not suppose to have as much freedom as you had on EU#1 when it came to gear selection. The reason behind this is simple: if there are no distractions, you focus more on the gameplay.

 

Now as I read this topic and the other topics with a similar subject, I have been thinking or was would make it possible to have some form of customization within the same gear settings.

 

1. Having a fixed uniform (or selection of similar uniforms (sleeves, rolled sleeves, t-shirt) that will be randomly assigned).
2. Having a option in the parameters of every mission to select which countries uniform will be used, U.K., Germany, U.S., Sweden, Netherlands, etc. possible in combination with point one.
3. Having a selection of vests in the right colour(it has to match the uniform). But you can choose if you prefer a bandoleer, light carrier or medium carrier.
4. Having a selection of helmets in the right colour(it has to match the uniform). This may or may not include berets.
5. You spawn with a standard selection of basic items such as earplugs, bandages, grenades, a sidearm and your rifle.
6. A have a selection of weapons available, all using stanag magazines to remove compatibility issues, which include weapons like but not limited to: M4, M16, M416, M417, L85, Mk16, Mk17, AUG.

Now I will say this, none of this is a quick implementation. But the point of a uniform is to be uniform-ally worn. This is there for easy identification of friendly and enemy forces and to display organisation. The same with weapons, most NATO countries use weapons that fit stanag mags such as U.S., U.K., Canada, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, etc. It is there for easy distribution of magazines and ammo, to make it universal used, just like the uniform.

[Adshield]

So what you saying here is when a admin isn't around people are allowed to break rules's

 i think he means that ideas he came up with get shot down by other players 

[Guest DwayneBrooklyn]

So what you saying here is when a admin isn't around people are allowed to break rules's

 

Not exactly. If there's only say a 4 man alpha squad online and the AO is 10km+ from the base, then people are gonna fly a heli even when they're not Vortex. Yes it's rule breaking but it's also a matter of discretion and a bit of common sense. Again the same thing if there's no medics online, you need to carry some meds yourself. I'm sure you get where I'm coming from?

 

I'm advocating rule breaking where it's absolutely necessary. Going around firing in the base, team killing and general pissing about just because an admin isn't online is not what I'm trying to advocate here.

 

But with regards to the actual point I was making; it was with regards to what Amentes said. Sometimes an AO requires special tools (e.g. ladder, explosives, launcher etc) and the necessary roles for this may not be filled. Then the commander might ask for an Alpha (or Bravo) squad to carry one each. This is against the rules but given the circumstances it's applicable. But I was saying sometimes you get players who cry out that it's against the rules and that just kills the idea there and then.

[Amentes]

But with regards to the actual point I was making; it was with regards to what Amentes said. Sometimes an AO requires special tools (e.g. ladder, explosives, launcher etc) and the necessary roles for this may not be filled. Then the commander might ask for an Alpha (or Bravo) squad to carry one each. This is against the rules but given the circumstances it's applicable. But I was saying sometimes you get players who cry out that it's against the rules and that just kills the idea there and then.

 

I don't believe it's against the rules if leadership determines it as a neccesary tool for the job