Invade and Annex PVP Mode

[Hubrisz4]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I have a suggestion for a PVP mode of Invade and Annex and would like to hear your ideas. I really like the Invade and Annex cooperative mode and mission system but fighting AI the whole time does get a bit repetitive. So how better to spice things up than to introduce chaos factories (aka people) into the mix! I realise this goes open season on an old debate but I ask you to approach it with an open mind.

 

If you are interested in this idea, I will upload a copy of my rough attempts on my own. Unfortunately I don't understand anything about the editor, scripting or servers - all I know is from experimentation and from what I could gather from other people's missions. I'm really pleased with the development of Invade and Annex and hope this could be brought to bear on this mission. From my perspective, it would be based 90% on your current game.

 

It's a simple idea really and I hope it does not involve too much work to realise or has any critical technical flaws. As far as I can tell it should be workable even if it's not a complete mode with all the bells and whistles at the beginning. Hopefully your community will find it refreshing and it would bring in more new players. I don't know how much I could help in it's development, but I will do what I can and hopefully keep it on track direction/lore wise.

 

The Plot:

2035: Greece has fallen into economic meltdown and anarchy reigns. The Greek civil government has been overthrown in a coup by young AAF generals who believe a military state based on traditional values is the only solution. The International community has asked NATO and CSAT forces to deploy to Altis to assist in it's stabilization and ensure it does not become a failed state. Unfortunately, the close military proximity of the superpowers has re-ignited Cold War tensions and the island of Altis bears the ideological fallout. Their original mission forgotten, NATO and CSAT have both declared the AFF government as illegitimate and battle to realise their own version of Greek society in a war that appears to be leading into a global conflict as world resources continue to decline.

 

Mission:

• Basic Red vs. Blue mission with a small AI component for basic resistance / immersion
• Each faction (NATO/CSAT/AAF) is provided a small base around a shoddy old airfield
• NATO and CSAT are playable factions - AAF is a hostile AI (resistance) faction only
• Main AO and Side Missions are defended by AAF for both NATO and CSAT to compete over completion
• Since ARMA is not really faction balanced, territory capture is not a feature (purely for fun, pew pew all that)
• There is no overriding system driving the mission like respawn tickets - it's an endless/persistent team battle for the sake of getsome /stats maybe
• Main AO's provide random tier 1 vehicle rewards to the victor, Dive Missions provide tier 2 and Side Mission provide tier 3

Development Issues:

• Main AOs attacked on a "Sieze" basis and once "captured" must be defended successfully to complete. Since "Seize" is a dominance function, one must hold the dominance (say 15min) to complete the objective. No AI counterattack and the losing faction is forced to extract or face death
• Side missions can't be Radar etc. because they are as simple as shooting a rocket at them to complete. More HVT, destroy small object etc. is suitable. The two faction environment could make side missions quite interesting as each team could play a role in their design
• The side mission rewards system would have to be tweaked to spawn faction relevant vehicles at respective bases
• Your restrictions.sqf file would need to change to restrict certain guns to classes and VAS can now restrict items for each faction so that can take care of things like incorrect uniforms and thermal scopes. I feel both factions should be able to use each others guns as there is no balance in those at the moment.
• A Mobile Spawn Point could be created with the BTC Revive script for each faction to better deploy numbers into battle under AA ceiling
• Artillery Priority Target missions would have to be spawned as East units and transferred to GUER use
• Team balance would impact the gameplay but I like to think it could manage itself due to there not really being a point
• Base protection would be required against opposition griefers - I'm trying to make the Zone Restriction module work
• I am concearned about a potentially 90 player server being laggy, so I think smaller numbers of AI should be spawned and probably a much higher percentage in buildings to make them relatively as effective. Apparently a headless client can be used but I don't know much about that
• Disable Global chat voice, I don't know how but I think you can.
• Other issues I haven't even begun to think about yet

Other ideas I'm not keen on but are probably worth discussion:

• All military outposts/firebases/airfields on the map are capturable zones for forward spawn options and/or forward repair/re-arm
• A progression system to add more incentive to missions by restricting initial weapons etc. (stat save set up) and allowing ammo box rewards
• A faction spawn-tickets system to incentivise missions and a winner/loser scenario outcome
• Mods - IMO these could stay the same as what is currently allowed on EU1 with no real problem
• 3rd Person Off - necessary for a "fair" experience, but I think to be noob friendly leave it in (it's not a serious mode anyway)

Anyway there you go, a quick and dirty on my suggestion to add to the missions AhoyWorld offers. I think PVP just adds that extra dimension of realism to the game and will help a lot in terms of getting more teamplay and that "feel" that you could be killed at any minute in a million ironic ways. I think it could be a great entry level way for people to experience ARMA and get their FPS fix for PVP within a well structured mission environment.

 

Remember it's just for fun, there is no "winner/loser" scenario other than the experiences players take away with them. I know it's a lot of work and seems pretty chaotic, but I think it's promising at least as an alternative. Let the flame commence! 

[JuX]

This has been discussed before and recall someone telling me, it's been done before, but didn't workout (lack of players and such).

My alternative suggestion was to add small player spetsnaz group to the opposing AI team for varied and challenging experience to disrupt

and combat the army operated by players (this hasn't been tried out, far as i know).

[Dingo]

You've more or less described CTI, also alot of talk about balance real life isn't balanced it comes down to which side uses the better tictacs and ultimately has the better equipment

But your ideas are nice, might be easier to set up from scratch, using the Alive mod or a semi setup scripted Zeus mission rather than trying to change how I&A works cause that's a total head(expletive deleted) believe me I've tried

[Hubrisz4]

Nice idea Jux, that could also spice things up a lot in the standard Invade and Annex with Zeus - would love to be the Opfor!! Yes I must admit making sense of Invade and Annex is not a simple business. Thanks for the suggestions I will look up the ALiVe Mod for sure, Youtube videos look good. I think in terms of players it's always going to be a bit tough at the beginning as people have to hear about it, play it and decide to tell others to play it. I think as long as it presents players with something unique then it's just a matter of patience and giving them what they want to improve their experience. Obviously having guys like Leutin make videos about your game mode is even better!

[Hubrisz4]

After endless hours of VAS and other editing and testing until my eyes bled, I think it's coming on not too shabby. I hope this could be a nice Zeus event mission and possibly something AW take on and host someday (a guy can have dreams ok). It's geared at 54 players (1 squad each side extra) but I dropped the cap to 38 players. Having 2 extra squads worth of slots does make teambalance harder but I'd like to see if it could run with decent frames with that many players.

Please would someone help me a bit with some of my final goals for this mission? There are two critical issues facing me: 1) embed the objective capture point system into the init.sqf (I have all the assets there already in the editor). 2) create a way to assign rewards/notifications by who completed them. I have done all the other editing I can think of, including changing all the units to be spawned as resistance plus much, much more. Any support is welcome!

Unfortunately I just don't have the knowledge to come up with the solutions myself right now. If I can get some direction, I reckon I can manage the rest to get it to a V1 that is playable. I've come this far I'm going to see it finished it somehow. An experienced eye looking over things would help a lot, I may well have missed something silly especially where dedicated server is concearned. Your feedback is much appreciated!

You can download the test version below. For now there are no client side mods, but I think it would be cool to get them in at some point. if only for the name tags issue on vehicles etc. I'm sure people would also love to see the weapons packs in it. I just named the mission Team vs Team because I was tired. Could always come up with something snappy. Thanks for reading and taking a look!

http://www.speedyshare.com/CUR2j/AW-20Invade-20-20Annex-20TvT-20V1.Altis.pbo -- 28/4 update to get scuba and urban missions working (no AI there just yet as I'm thinking about spawning them in traditionally vs using EOS)! Many more background changes. I'm preparing VAS configs and class restrictions to handle the new mas NATO and Spetsnaz weapons packs. I'm leaving them open to both sides, but restricting the extra models so its easier to navigate.

[Hubrisz4]

Hi I'm bumping this thread to see if anyone has any ideas on how to take this forward. I have gotten pretty much everything done except for the conquest style capture points and the rewards split per faction. For some reason I can't get the AI to spawn via EOS at side objectives, even though I can do it exactly the same way in another mission. I left the MAS edits on the backburner for now, I really just want to get it functional. We're looking to host on our local server here.

 

Come on you glorious code geniuses you, help a neanderthal out here. I know your time is limited and it does take a while to get a feel for it, but I'm not asking someone to make it work, just to kindly give me ideas on how it could be done and whether I'm on the right track or not. You don't even need to read all this stuff in the thread, the map pretty much explains it. Any feedback is appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

http://www.speedyshare.com/kBbu3/AW-20Invade-20-20Annex-20TvT-20V1.Altis.pbo

Just click on the header for the download.

[Dingo]

Very nice, does need a tidy up, had a quick play through, you've layed it out well 

have you had a play test with a good few players yet?

 

I'll have a look through the code if i get a chance on the weekend and see where you need to go form here 

 

Anyone else had a look at this??

[MDCCLXXVI]

Just had a poke.

 

Interesting idea and I can see you've put some work in.

 

 

I don't think I&A is the best platform for the concept. I like your focus on random spawning objectives and capture points though. 

 

 

In about a week, I'll have a cleaner mission file for you to poke around in. It should have been finished a week ago but we've been having server troubles which inhibited MP testing, and I a shortage of spare time, so things get pushed back. Its ready for public hosting, however I'm sure some bugs will pop out that require fixing over the next few days. You will find it much nicer to wade through and edit.

 

....

 

 

And for your EOS issue, are you trying to call EOS_Spawn on a pre-existing position/marker or at a random position? Remember there may be locality issues if you are moving markers around.

 

 

Also a note re EOS markers. They require area markers for patrols and garrison, so its best to use an area marker, and then apply setMarkerAlpha 0 to hide it from players. That is an issue I had to overcome, I'm not sure if I had that sorted when i released the version you are editing.

[Hubrisz4]

Wow I am amaze! Thank you! Yes it does need a tidy up and no unfortunately I haven't had a real play test yet, until it's really functional I don't think that will possible. The guys here will not really play it unless its a "complete" experience, but I think they will be lenient in terms of getting it to improve over time. 

 

Ah that's probably exactly the issue. I'm trying to call EOS on existing markers that I'm moving around. Will experiment a bit with creating and deleting for each side mission and see if that works a bit better. Will also add another area marker and see if I can get the patrols working. Thnx for tips.

 

Well yes I'm not sure I&A is the best framework to do it in, but I think given my ignorance it's a fantastic base to work from. You guys made a pretty robust mission and my bumbling to get it into something resembling decent shape is testament to that. If it catches on I'd be happy to see it grow into something else entirely.

 

For now the AI is pretty much just a buffer resistance to slow a team down so the other team can contest. There really is no rush with it, so don't feel I'm putting pressure on you at all - I know life and I&A comes first! I really do appreciate your responses thanks again. Oh and yes, there WILL be bugs

 

-- Snuck in my latest progress, will leave it alone for some time. I added flares for the Pawnee/OrcaBlack, removed thermals from vehicles and nerfed the BTR by removing it's Titan Launchers (so many small changes like this). Still having trouble with a few things though.

http://www.speedyshare.com/w6Sbm/AW-20Invade-20-20Annex-20TvT-20V1.Altis.pbo

[Hubrisz4]

Hey! I've updated this game mode to the new cleaned up I&A. Still way out of my depth with mission scripts of course! Be a legend and help me out please. There's a notes file with an issue list (critical is for your eyes), I suggest depbo'ing it right way and working through the editor preview and have fun testing things on the test island! I want to include these two small addons that I've edited, but I can't seem to repackage them, if you can help with that I would really appreciate it.

 

I committed to the asymmetrical warfare thing and made a few other changes to spice it up a bit - including a new airbase at Almyra Salt Pan.

 

http://www.speedyshare.com/GH8zM/Island-Conflict-v051.Altis.pbo -- mission PBO not incl. addons

http://www.speedyshare.com/bMXxE/Addons-to-be-repackaged-for-install-as-mod-by-host.rar -- chopper addons Zip File (to be repackaged)

[MDCCLXXVI]

Hey! I've updated this game mode to the new cleaned up I&A. Still way out of my depth with mission scripts of course! Be a legend and help me out please. There's a notes file with an issue list (critical is for your eyes), I suggest depbo'ing it right way and working through the editor preview and have fun testing things on the test island! I want to include these two small addons that I've edited, but I can't seem to repackage them, if you can help with that I would really appreciate it.

 

I committed to the asymmetrical warfare thing and made a few other changes to spice it up a bit - including a new airbase at Almyra Salt Pan.

 

http://www.speedyshare.com/GH8zM/Island-Conflict-v051.Altis.pbo -- mission PBO not incl. addons

http://www.speedyshare.com/bMXxE/Addons-to-be-repackaged-for-install-as-mod-by-host.rar -- chopper addons Zip File (to be repackaged)

 

All that's in there is the mission.sqm. This is likely because you've changed the name of the folder (mission directory) when you clicked 'save as' in the editor.

[Calibre]

Bumping this thread. I;d love to see I&A but modded as PVP. Was searching for hours and finally found this thread.

 

Any info ?

[Hubrisz4]

Bumping this thread. I;d love to see I&A but modded as PVP. Was searching for hours and finally found this thread.

 

Any info ?

 

Hey! I've been taking a long break from ARMA focusing on real life stuff for a while. Will upload a fix so if you guys want to take it forward you can, for now though I think I'm done. It has taken way too many hours to get into it and I still feel like I'm at square one. Sorry guy it has kind of killed my love for ARMA!

[GavC]

If i was adding OPFOR i'd keep em small and low-ish tech, maybe 3-5 insurgents/enemy per 30-50 players. 

 

My reasoning behind this is that when we play versus the usual AI they are predictable and fairly useless. Provided a squad is cautious they should nearly always prevail without any surprises or ambushes from the enemy. If you add in even a tiny unit of human intelligence (albeit the questionable intelligence harvested from teh internet) then it'll spice up teh mission no end. Squads will not only have to keep their shit together, they'll have to plan contingencies etc etc.

 

Obviously lots of edits would be needed to keep the OPFOR units properly engaged and not just sitting on a hill 1500m away with their LRR's. To this end i would suggest unguided AT only, and no sniper rifles or Long range scopes. IMO i'd allow full range of explosives, both AP and AT. It might give BLUEFOR engineers something to do

 

In one of my old clans we had an A2 insurgency server. It ran similar to this and i've seen the whole army of maybe 20 people with choppers and IFV's being held off by just a few human insurgents combined with the usual AI. In fact it was so difficult that most players whinged and wanted it turn off. So the balance must be perfected. 

 

Of course most of the time that the insurgents won was because BLUEFOR was uncoordinated, lacked the proper materiel and generally took NO risk.

 

just my 2 cents

 

Gav