new Turning the default settings of I&A up

[Josh]

Hiya, I think we should turn the default settings up.

 

Basically the amount of people in the AO, vehicles and such like.

 

Why? Because the AOs are getting finished in stupidly quick times and it's so easy... Even more so when CAS is online.

 

 

Opinions? 

[laforte]

Josh I never agreed more with you.

 

 

 

[Dingo]

3 minutes 24 seconds to clear an AO on a full server with majority working in properly to clear it way too quick

 

Definately should turn the AI skill up a notch or 3,

 

Also maybe along the development lines of things

we could have a cost of war script,

that would limit the ammo pool per AO for blufor some how, i think i rember this being done on a life, conquest or wastland map somewhere

 

you spawn with 4 or 5 mags for whatever loadout you have and there's a global counter set at whatever say 1000 mags, as players respawn the counter drops as they take 5 mags and also depletes as people rearm at base or ammo bearers, when all the ammo is spent you have to scavenge the dead & dying, 

if the pool still has left overs at the end of the AO it get added to the next AO's total along with a completion bonus of extra rounds.

could so similar for vehicles & CAS

[AppleSapje]

restrict VAS please, test it on eu2

[Josh]

This replies/ideas are all sweet, I do love dingos ideas.

Big causes of the ease of aos is these: large weapon selection, of which all is unlimited bar sniper and at.

Large vehicle and fire support array.

The amount of Ai within the aos.

Possible fixes: limits to the weaponry as suggested above.

Smaller selection of fire power and support.

Increased amounts of Ai at a harder level.

Now I know exactly what raz and other devs will be thinking right now, "oh yay another suggestion and even more work for us" I have an answer. I'll start work on this project to try and counter act some of these issues. Obviously some of them are a lot simpler than others for example the default setting for Ai levels can be adjusted in the mission file. Anyway, along with community members I'm sure I'll come up with something! But more suggestions are welcome and will be very likely considered

Or at least id like to try. Maybe one of the other devs will say there is a simple way to make the aos harder to complete

[Paraclete]

How about increasing the CSAT AA assets as CAS is where most of the damage is done early in each AO.

 

There was a time a few months back where one could barely raise ones head above the grass without an AI turning it into a canoe. I liked it that way.

[Ducky]

@Dingo

I like your idea about "Over all Ammunition supply" which can be done both for interfere, cars, tanks and helis. However, it could be difficult to implement because of VAS. (I think): I you want I can expand on concerns.

 

@Paraclete

About to tweet enemy AI to that degree "barely raise ones head above the grass without an AI turning it into a canoe" because I don't find it fun, if AI sees one pixel of your body it will shoot at it and kill you with a one kill shot 

Increasing AA in a AO could be good people will require think on the fly

 

My suggestion are add more variations of armored vehicles (tanks, helis, apcs, HMG/LMG light vehicles, boats (If near see)) not only tanks and AAs >..> because you always know what going to be there: to certain extend.

Add some extra tasks which people need to complete such as: gather information/evidence, kill x, y, z (commander, captain, etc)

 

Set up ambushes inside and outside of the AO

 

Plant IEDs in AO or outside: there is a script which does that on armaholic link,

 

Add urban patrols not just stationary look out guys.

 

Add mines: to the AO not only to radio tower trip mines, AT/AP mines.

 

Add enemy reinforcement if commander/radio tower has been eliminated.

 

Maybe have quicker day/night cycle.

 

Could have some sort of economy like in live or wasteland for a commander.

[MDCCLXXVI]

The version on EU #2 right now is a bit different.

[Josh]

I think the main issue here is the fact back in Stratis during the beta days During one AO you could do 2-3 side missions because AOs would take that long. Now it has switched tides. You can do 2-3 AOs before a new side and all be it i know that times and such like have changed but AOs taking 5 mins are just gahhh. So some AI improvement and such like is definitely needed. Also restriction of weapons too. I think we've already had plenty time to play with the catalogue maybe it is now time to limit the armoury we have?

So Jester seems to beat us to the point! Time to check out .70a

[Jester]

Yu can thank 1776 for a bunch of the tweaks.

[Josh]

Yea however, we've found that it has the same issue as 69. On EU1 atleast. Desync is back!

[MDCCLXXVI]

Yea however, we've found that it has the same issue as 69. On EU1 atleast. Desync is back!

 

looking into it

 

could be some  server<------->mission   configuration is required

 

 

2.70 was tuned for AOs to take about 40-60 minutes with 30-40 average pub players, though that is with FFIS mod running serverside, and parameters abit different from whats currently on EU1 and 2. lowering quantity of troops and some parameter settings will naturally bring that number down slightly. it depends how AW wants it to play.    

 

 

 

weapon restrictions is a topic for a separate thread

 

i think you'll find many public players will be irate when they find their favorite kit from the VAS box no longer has a Nightstalker attached.

 

some basic further restrictions that could be implemented, food for thought:

 

- GLs to grenadier only

- LMGs to Autoriflemen only

- Satchel charges to Explosive spec only

- Pilots = no primary weapon

- [ may already be in 2.70a, i forget] close the loophole whereby players can pick up enemy titan launchers and save to VAS

- [if implemented] Ammo bearer only, for Carryall backpack

- remove Nightstalker, TWS, TWS MG optics from VAS and integrate them into SM rewards (cant be saved to VAS anyways).

 

- rangefinders and laser des can also be attributed to a certain class only

 

 

^ while promoting role play, you might find people will be angry esp with the nightstalker and LMG restrictions. tread carefully!

[Sanguine]

The easiest way to increase challenge in my opinion is increase of enemy numbers and tweaking of rewards. I consider rewards like Blackfoot anti-fun because of their immense CAS capabilities (every AO will essentially be cleared of armour, given you can pick them off from range).

On EU#2 there seem to be a lot more EI with AA missile launchers, so that kind of helps alleviate the problem, but not really, because skilled pilots will probably not be hit by missiles due to flares and evasive manoeuvres. Also there is a lot more enemy armour, which makes for a lot more fun than EU#1; you can't simply go into the AO anymore and think: "Alright, there's a Kajman, the biggest problem by far, and when that's down there's nothing except 1-2 tanks and a bunch of infantry.".

 

I find having the Buzzard as CAS (and from the get-go) is working out very well, since it actually requires coordination with the ground team to be really effective.

 

Restricting item access like Smith mentioned is a terrible idea imo; nothing is going to change, except people getting forced into equipment they are uncomfortable using. I rarely ever see people even use the "OP" things like Nightstalkers at all, and nothing stops people from just picking up weapons from enemies when not allowed to have them. I personally am a big fan of the Katiba rifle because it just feels best, but it's an OPFOR weapon, so wat do.

 

Ideally the number of enemies would be adjusted to the number of players present on the server (especially when it comes to reinforcemens), but I realise this is probably impossible.

[Bruce]

possible to just *LOCK* the rocket slot on non-AT classes ?

we still want them to be able to carry spare ammo for the AT.

 

possible to restrict the backpack size for classes ?  (Rifleman only assualt pack etc.)

thereby limiting the amount of gear carried rather than a "global Ammo allotment" 

 

Because ... the first 30 noobs on the server will get max loadout,  and then

the next ten, potential best players in the world .. will end up with pistols and 10 rounds!

kinda kills the fun for the later additions.

 

is it possible to "Tune" the AI behaviour

without making them one-shot Aim-bot from 2k range through cover in the dark while dancing the lambada ??

would rather they were more tactical than more accurate.

[Jester]

I might give the FFIS a try on a test server and see how it does. This will add more dynamics to the AI overall.

[Ducky]

I think some of the weapons and gear should be restricted to certain classes because I saw AT solder with Sniper/Spotter layout which means AT slot is wasted (In my opinion). In addition, people dressing up with Pilot gear: suit/helmet.

 

I think it should be like this:

No limitations on pistols, grenades, optics, gadgets (except Laser Designator, Thermal optics).

Limit C4, satchels, mines to Explosive spec and Grenadier. 

Limit marksman rifles to Marksman class.

Limit machine guns to Medic, Auto-rifleman and AT-Rifleman.

Limit carbine weapons to Pilots and Crewman.

Limit any rocket launches to AT/AP Rifleman.

Limit Laser Designator to Squad Leader and Spotter.

Limit Gillysuits to Spotter and Sniper

Limit Pilot suits and Helmets to Pilots

Allow only NATO uniforms (American or British)

Limit backpack/s:

Cary All Pack to AT/AP Rifleman.

[Josh]

FFIS?

[Sanguine]

Limit C4, satchels, mines to Explosive spec and Grenadier. 

Explosives are necessary to destroy vehicles so they can respawn. Your idea of limitations might work in a more coordinated setting, but I&A is still a bunch of random dudes where teamplay happens but is hardly ever-present.

 

Limit marksman rifles to Marksman class.

Already the case, if you are referring to .50 cal Lynx and .408 Intervention. Limiting anything else is, imo, stupid.

 

Limit machine guns to Medic, Auto-rifleman and AT-Rifleman.

Again, this only partially makes any sense. AT-Riflemen and Medics with Autorifles? Since when? If you're doing your job as either those two you won't even have room for magazines / belts to utilise the weapons correctly because you're carrying rockets / medpacks / medkit.

 

Limit carbine weapons to Pilots and Crewman.

Carbine weapons are about making a choice; you realise they are the same weapon but with a shorter barrel? It's for close quarters or just for handling. I personally prefer carbine weapons in most cases, and limiting them makes no sense. By that standard every bullpup-design weapon could pass as carbine, seeing how they are very compact by nature (TAR-21, F2000, Katiba).

 

Limit any rocket launches to AT/AP Rifleman.

Pretty obvious decision, but I don't see this improving gameplay either. The big rockets are already reserved to this class.

 

Limit Laser Designator to Squad Leader and Spotter.

Hardly gamebreaking equipment, and I don't see anyone use them ever anyways. Limiting them to squadleaders / spotters would make it so we would never have any targets designated again, ever. As mentioned earlier, in a more cooperative environment this would make sense, but we have ~30+ random jollys to work with, not a coherent group of people.

 

Limit Gillysuits to Spotter and Sniper

Does the AI even react to that?

 

Limit Pilot suits and Helmets to Pilots

Useful I suppose.

 

Allow only NATO uniforms (American or British)

Since we can't use OPFOR uniforms it hardly makes a difference to how it is now.

 

Limit backpack/s:

Carry All Pack to AT/AP Rifleman.

Again, what's the point.

 

Frankly, I know very little scenarios where restrictions in terms of equipment actually improve gameplay. It just annoys people because they get thrown out of their comfort zone and can even limit creativity. Simple number tweaking would probably be enough to spice I&A up a lot, as already done on the EU#2 test-version. Or maybe we should just limit the amount of magazines people can carry to one to make it more challenging.

[Ducky]

Creativity is one thing but doing your role is another.

I don't care how you look, if you doing your role.

 

Limit C4, satchels, mines to Explosive spec and Grenadier. 

Explosives are necessary to destroy vehicles so they can respawn. Your idea of limitations might work in a more coordinated setting, but I&A is still a bunch of random dudes where teamplay happens but is hardly ever-present.

 

You can add C4 to the heli inventory because it can be used to trolling people >_< and only Explosive Spec can remove explosives.

 

Limit Gillysuits to Spotter and Sniper

Does the AI even react to that?

 

It is nothing about AI. It is about to identify who is a Sniper/Spotter.

 

Limit any rocket launches to AT/AP Rifleman.

Pretty obvious decision, but I don't see this improving gameplay either. The big rockets are already reserved to this class.

 

Expect RPG.

[Sanguine]

That's the point I was trying to make; the restrictions might stop you from being able to fulfil your role correctly / make some roles way more precious than others. Balancing the roles out to be equally fun seems impossible with those extreme restrictions.

 

The idea of putting explosives into the helicopters is excellent, I did not think of that. With that I wouldn't mind restricting explosives to classes where they are relevant.

 

Sniper / Spotter recognition is a valid point as well, though in this case it doesn't seem all that much of a priority to me (identification can still be done by the guns / personal requests).

 

With the increased amount of enemy vehicles in the AOs in recent versions I wouldn't go as far as restricting the RPG as well; it already takes 2-3 shots to take down a tank with it and is one of the things that makes your ordinary rifleman feel less worthless (because he has room to adapt to the threat).

[Ducky]

Why only increase enemy vehicles?? Why not do it fro both infantry and vehicles such as: Vehicles have lite armored HMG/LMG, APCs, Tanks, trucks with troops. Infantry to have more AA/AT, Snipers/Spotters, Marksman, etc. In addition, not only place all units outside of the urban area of AO: make patrols inside of towns or may be inside of local town which are near AO.

[Sanguine]

My bad for not mentioning it; I'm aware the amount of enemies in general has increased, I simply emphasised on the vehicles because in the recent build there are vehicles we did not have before, same as mounted guns and some infantry classes and a heavy increase in infantry-based AA. I really like the direction it's heading towards with this.

[Bruce]

I want to add my support to Sanguine's points.

 

were the server more dedicated and less public,  which encouraged teamplay,  then the restrictions would possibly work and be well received.

 

but it's public,  so you get 3 idiots occupying the MEDIC slot and running through the AO in their undergarments and carrying only a pistol.

thus getting dead and respawning,  same for the AT and explosive specs...  You simply cannot force people to do their jobs !

not without massive cost to the fun of the "GAME"

 

to compensate,  any reasonably intelligent person will loadout themselves with:

multiple FAKs

an RPG with at least a spare rocket

possibly 3 x explosive charges for the radio tower

as many 7.62 magazines as humanly possible

a decent scope

Lazor Dez + Battery

 

this is because, this person generally can survive first contact in Helo by a Kajman,  escape to cover,   move slowly into the AO and take out the covering fire

WITHOUT having to scream for a medic at the tippy-top of his tiny-teeny lungs at an ear piercing level that I WISH only dogs could hear . but in actual fact makes my ears bleed !

 

And now, having gotten there, possibly with a few stragglers left of the 16 guys that started out,  this person actually wants to achieve something

 

So rather than wait for spunky, Teeny-weeny and Bob to sort their lives out and get anywhere within a 15KM radius of the AO with a rocket for the Tigris OR some explosives... he can actually do a small part of someone elses job !!

 

okay so this got all Rant like,  sorry

 

But I don't think we can fix many personal player issues by adding a bunch off restrictions on gear ...  AND after the game night the other day I realised

the people that want that level of play, 

are usually intelligent enough to Self Restrict !  without an admin imposed ban on the fun stuff,  that somedays,  you just wanna run naked into the AO with a Zafir and blow off some steam

 

... GAME ...! ... for fun ... ya know 

 

/peace out

[RaptorInMotion]

Edit: Made own thread. (can delete this post if possible)