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Combat Life Savers & Revive


Bruce
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So,

 

I posted this in another thread and thought I shoukld post it here insted,

 

I'll delete the other and link it back over to save duplication etc.

 

****************************************

 

in regards the Revive stuff,  I mean restricting the ability to Combat Life Savers;

 

Maybe I can ask for yours and others thoughts on TWO suggestions?

 

would it be possible to add another "timer" ? what I mean is ...

 

IF a soldier is fallen and an ally is close enough to revive

AND has a FAK in his inventory

AND less than a certain time has passed (30 seconds ??)

THEN he can be revived by any class,

after 30 seconds,

ONLY a Combat Life Saver can revive.

 

no idea if it's possible to script, but it's for me, a little more realistic than a guy just leaving his comrade to bleed in a ditch.

leaving him unti la medic runs up to fix him

 

 

ALTERNATIVELY

 

allow any class to revive with a FAK,

but leave the soldier in the "Badly Wounded" or broken leg state so that movement is restricted / halted completely

or some other incapacitated state ... ALSO .. only able to use a light pistol rather than full weapon selection

 

ONLY a Combat Life Saver can medic them to fix the limb etc. and get the guy back up to full speed ..

 

*************************

 I'd like something like this in I&A, thinking about it

 

option 2) would mean that soldiers would have to make some effort to extract (CRAWL) to safety

so that the MEDIC isn't forced to run into a raging battle to get stuck in revive animation and then have the player Respawn from under you.

 

in option 1)

there's no option for respawn within the first 30 seconds,

and it forces people to carry a few more FAKs

 

another thought is if a guy can crawl to a MEDICAL HEMTT then they can self treat themselves there.

 

Like I say, just thoughts on making it Risky, but not just a "Sit and wait" exercise or just Respawn

and behave like a CODder !  "CHAARGE, DIE, RESPAWN, REPEAT"

 

thoughts ?


 

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Good idea, all of them really.  I think this kind of thing will always bring up the playability vs realism debate, which is justified too.

 

Here's another idea for the pot: allowing any player with FAK (or with a FAK on the victim's body) to either halt the bleed-to-death, or double/triple/quadruple the bleed period, but not actually do a revive, leaving the fallen player not dying (as fast), but not back in the game.  That would require a combat life saver with a medic kit.

Edited by Rockfrog
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I little bit disagree with you Bruce with your suggestion.

 

First reason: FAKs are not designed for reviving people. They designed to treat wounds, until medic fix you up to full health.

 

Second reason: Allow every one to revive fallen team mates will make medics useless.

 

Third reason: Not a lot people will risk there lives to revive a fallen team mate because of AI's Bionic X-ray vision -_-'.

 

However, @Rockfrog has a good idea to use FAKs to slow down a death timer for a fallen team mate, but then we need to make that one time use and have short death timers.

 

Ducky out  :ph34r:

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I little bit disagree with you Bruce with your suggestion.

 

First reason: FAKs are not designed for reviving people. They designed to treat wounds, until medic fix you up to full health.

 

Second reason: Allow every one to revive fallen team mates will make medics useless.

 

Third reason: Not a lot people will risk there lives to revive a fallen team mate because of AI's Bionic X-ray vision -_-'.

 

However, @Rockfrog has a good idea to use FAKs to slow down a death timer for a fallen team mate, but then we need to make that one time use and have short death timers.

 

Ducky out  :ph34r:

No worries Ducky man,  I'm totally happy to hear feedback and discuss the pro's and con's etc.... 

so lemme reply in turn to you here :

 

 FAKs are not designed for reviving people. They designed to treat wounds, until medic fix you up to full health.

 

Absolutely Agree with you!

and that is the change I'm asking for here,

every soldier is given basic training and first aid to stabilise their comrades before the medic arrives on the scene.

it should be the FIRST thing done,  before Dragging or carrying someone with a Sucking Chestwound ! :D

 

in fact that training goes as far as to say you should rummage through the wounded guys gear and use HIS FAK not your own  :)

 

Allow every one to revive fallen team mates will make medics useless.

 

this change will in no way make medics useless, at all

  what it will do is make them more able to do their job rather than the wounded player just respawn. 

 

me for example ...

 

get hit and can see the nearest medic is 500m away and not getting closer...

but there's a bunch of guys near me that can apply first aid,  and one does so...

once I receive first aid,  I can only crawl and shoot a pistol BUT .. I can get MYSELF (Crawling) to a position in cover ...

and then the medic does not have to get into the same place I was in and take fire etc.

 

Not a lot people will risk there lives to revive a fallen team mate because of AI's Bionic X-ray vision

 

this statement is self defeating,  not a lot of people will risk themselves .. so then neither will medics...them being people too (possibly)

and actually,  who is going to rescue the medic when he gets hit ? ..when  trying to heal someone under heavy fire ?

 

from limited experience ... its hard enough to get the medic to do their job in the first place (on public servers at least... debatable)

 

regardless I'd rather have the option to crawl away from danger and be able to look around ..

than sit staring at my screen for 10 minutes waiting for the timer to tick down and respawn... 

it's not realistic,  its not fun.

 

and respawning is hated by medics as they run to you and you vanish without a word !

or they run into a firefight and get killed while stuck in the animation reviving you ..

OR worse,  stuck looking at the terrain unable to revive you,  until that bug is addressed .. it's better for someone to get you mobile, and THEN have the medic finish the job.

 

much better for other soldiers to get hurt dragging you / reviving ... and THEN the medic fixes you properly once you are in cover

As a medic .. I approve this message !  :D

 

 

use FAKs to slow down a death timer for a fallen team mate, but then we need to make that one time use and have short death timers.

 

Again,  I see where you (RockFrog) are coming from,  but I'm trying it make it a bit quicker, a bit more realistic and a bit less labour intensive waiting on the medic

 

with this change to shorter death timers,  medics are not always   a) near you,  B) doing their job or even carrying FAK c) even in the same AO, d)  not bugged and can get to you

 

changing the timer to shorter just means MORE respawns and more travel time to the AO and more time ... and less fun

 

yes, you say that an ally can use a FAK to extend the time it takes to die .. but .. really ...  this is still a game

and making someone apply a FAK to extend the time  I can lie stationary on the floor ... is kinda redundant ?

or is that me? .. I want to be doing something ... if not shooting bad guys,  at least trying to get to safety ..

nothing to say I won't take another bullet and die again .. but it's something.

 

This is all purely conjecture and opinion,  and as with any discussion on the internet,  I'm not ASSUMING I am correct in anyway, 

just think that some changes could make for a fun experience ... while dead.. and not shooting bad guys :)

 

Stay safe,  stay alive,  peace out

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Bruce!

 

I like you to look at this link, we tried it out yesterday. Not really a possibility on a public server because it is not client side. Being in alpha or beta (or whatever) it has great potential. The link contains a video as well! http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23618

 

I completely agree with a timer to increase the chance of a possible revive by a medic. 30 seconds is not long enough to annoy publics with constant waiting, but should give a medic the chance of reviving a team mate. I don't agree with non-medics reviving people. I personally think the medical system in Arma 3 is terrible, giving non-medics the ability to cure themselves with problems from a scratch to terminal decease by using a FAK.

 

I would much rather see more restriction to non-medic instead of making them able to revive other downed players. Like only being able to patch up small wounds, but still being twitchy after that. A medic should be able to get him back to full strength! This makes the medic more of use than just a revive me bitch!

 

I think the following is a way of increasing the importance of medics and give non-medics to help each other when being downed. Decrease the the countdown of dying players to something like a minute. Only when non-medics start applying pressure to wounds, giving morphine ,and applying a bandage the countdown will stop, giving the medic some time to arrive to the scene and fix the player.

 

I also think that reviving players should have more options like blood bags, saline, and morphine making reviveing a bit harder and a lot more fun. Pretty much like the medical system in DayZ that is surprisingly a lot more realistic than a combat simulator like Arma!

 

As I said the medical system is terrible making this a good point for discussion. 

 

Smith out!

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Bruce!

 

I like you to look at this link, we tried it out yesterday. Not really a possibility on a public server because it is not client side. Being in alpha or beta (or whatever) it has great potential. The link contains a video as well! http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23618

 

I completely agree with a timer to increase the chance of a possible revive by a medic. 30 seconds is not long enough to annoy publics with constant waiting, but should give a medic the chance of reviving a team mate. I don't agree with non-medics reviving people. I personally think the medical system in Arma 3 is terrible, giving non-medics the ability to cure themselves with problems from a scratch to terminal decease by using a FAK.

 

I would much rather see more restriction to non-medic instead of making them able to revive other downed players. Like only being able to patch up small wounds, but still being twitchy after that. A medic should be able to get him back to full strength! This makes the medic more of use than just a revive me bitch!

 

I think the following is a way of increasing the importance of medics and give non-medics to help each other when being downed. Decrease the the countdown of dying players to something like a minute. Only when non-medics start applying pressure to wounds, giving morphine ,and applying a bandage the countdown will stop, giving the medic some time to arrive to the scene and fix the player.

 

I also think that reviving players should have more options like blood bags, saline, morphine, exc. Making reviveing a bit harder and a lot more fun. Pretty much like the medical system in DayZ that is surprisingly a lot more realistic than a combat simulator like Arma!

 

As I said the medical system is terrible making this a good point for discussion. 

 

Smith out!

 

wow,  that link is kinda ..wow  :)  I like it ..but at the end of the day this is a "Public Server!"

 

and as such, expecting everyone from 12 year  olds up to old gits like me !  to behave with responsibility and true realism in mind

(applying pressure and morphine etc.  to a dying soldier....)

in a game where 99.999% of the guys online just intend to charge ahead into the AO and score some kills is possibly beyond the realms of possibility

 

MAYBE  on a dedicated and protected server with a regular group of veteransd running ACE ACRE and whatever .. that may well be fantastic,

 

but again this is I&A Public ... we need to keep our expectations a little lower

 

maybe I need to pick a preferred method to look at the merits of just one method ?

 

my money is firmly on :

 

giving everyone the ability to give basic first aid to a fallen soldier via a FAK.

making him mobile only within the first 60 seconds of being shot down (during that timer = no respawn)

(NO SELF TREATMENT !! .. none, nil nada .. this is co-op)

 

then the medics are 100% required to get that soldier back to a fully functioning unit...

 

No Medic = no shooting and movement is only CRAWL

no medic in AO = still has the option to respawn via 'ESC'

 

Medics can self heal with the medikit  once they have been given first aid ? 

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wow,  that link is kinda ..wow  :)  I like it ..but at the end of the day this is a "Public Server!"

 

and as such, expecting everyone from 12 year  olds up to old gits like me !  to behave with responsibility and true realism in mind

(applying pressure and morphine etc.  to a dying soldier....)

in a game where 99.999% of the guys online just intend to charge ahead into the AO and score some kills is possibly beyond the realms of possibility

 

MAYBE  on a dedicated and protected server with a regular group of veteransd running ACE ACRE and whatever .. that may well be fantastic,

 

but again this is I&A Public ... we need to keep our expectations a little lower

 

maybe I need to pick a preferred method to look at the merits of just one method ?

 

my money is firmly on :

 

giving everyone the ability to give basic first aid to a fallen soldier via a FAK.

making him mobile only within the first 60 seconds of being shot down (during that timer = no respawn)

(NO SELF TREATMENT !! .. none, nil nada .. this is co-op)

 

then the medics are 100% required to get that soldier back to a fully functioning unit...

 

No Medic = no shooting and movement is only CRAWL

no medic in AO = still has the option to respawn via 'ESC'

 

Medics can self heal with the medikit  once they have been given first aid ? 

 

I quote this from my own text: "Not really a possibility on a public server because it is not client side". Wasn't giving it as a option on the public server. It is ment for more coordinate groups like we do sometime on game nights and more recently, on the Alive mod. The mod is really in depth but everyone understands DayZ, that is simpler than the mod but still a great improvement on Arma 3. Might be a scripting possibility, I don't know. 

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I quote this from my own text: "Not really a possibility on a public server because it is not client side". Wasn't giving it as a option on the public server. It is ment for more coordinate groups like we do sometime on game nights and more recently, on the Alive mod. The mod is really in depth but everyone understands DayZ, that is simpler than the mod but still a great improvement on Arma 3. Might be a scripting possibility, I don't know. 

yeah, sorry,  I was typing while my dinner was cooking so I didn't really look at what I'd written then ran to get my food  :P

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