UAV lasers

[Pickle]

Hello, I focused on UAV operating lately and one thing that I noticed, it is too much nerfed with strict rules and scripts. For the people who dont much play as UAV operator in AW, I would like to portrayal problems of it.

 

When I start playing, firstly I set up my UAVs on AO and announce that UAV CAS is ready. And thats pretty much it, no one will call for CAS in AW. Even though someone needs my help, I will have problem with aiming because UAV's laser is removed with script and I need ground units to lase target which means it will be super hard to lase moving targets especially if there are obstacles blocking the sight. 

 

Now you will reply "it is nerfed in order to prevent UAV operator killing everything and leaving nothing to shoot for rest".

Let's say there are no nerfing rules or scripts. It would take me minimum 5 minutes to set up all UAVs above AO, in the end I have 6 shots only, after that I need another 5 minutes to land > resupply > take off, for each UAV. 

Meanwhile some Vorona AT guy can take a hunter > fill it up with 24 AT missiles > head to a hill > and start blasting everything in 2km radius. (let's say AO is far away from base so it will take approx 7 minutes) 

 

As you can see in this comparison, while an UAV operator could only destroy 6 armors in 10 minutes, an AT guy can destroy atleast 15 armors (if his aiming is terrible) in 10 minutes. I made this comparison just to show you UAV is not that over powered as people here thinking. And I am not against uncalled CAS rule. My only problem is UAVs with no laser. 

 

Also, you may say that the script is there in order to prevent uncalled CAS. But it does not prevent it, script can only slow uncalled CAS (same goes for called CAS) or makes shots inaccurate (and again, same goes for called CAS). 

[Jenkins]

Spoiler

When I start playing, firstly I set up my UAVs on AO and announce that UAV CAS is ready. And thats pretty much it, no one will call for CAS in AW

This is unfortunately one of the gripes of playing on a public server, the Invade and Annex mission is designed in a way that gives players freedom to do their own thing, whether it be lone-wolfing a side objective, storming buildings at the AO with a friend or working as part of a larger team during a Zeus created mission. This is what I believe gives I&A it's charm... Teamwork is only encouraged, NOT enforced.

 

The only suggestion I can make is to ensure you continue to announce your presence over side channel or jump onto the Teamspeak server during the busier hours for a more likely chance of some team-play.

 

Spoiler

Now you will reply "it is nerfed in order to prevent UAV operator killing everything and leaving nothing to shoot for rest".

Let's say there are no nerfing rules or scripts. It would take me minimum 5 minutes to set up all UAVs above AO, in the end I have 6 shots only, after that I need another 5 minutes to land > resupply > take off, for each UAV.

This issue has been discussed soo many times in the past and I personally believe that the current system for UAV operators works just fine. I've witnessed first hand how often this system can be abused when no one is around to moderate it and I'm really not a fan of it.

 

Lasers on the Greyhawk were removed to limit their abuse but it was eventually decided to add Darter mini-UAVs to allow operators to do their thing manually at the expense of time/speed (the time it takes to deploy the system and get into position.) Which so far, has worked out just as effective as the old system.

 

Spoiler

You have to keep them at 50m altitude if you dont want enemy to shoot it down. And because of a bug in locking into targets, darters are lasing 1 meter above the target.
In order to fix it, you have to keep the darter at higher altitudes but as I said, enemy will shoot the darter if you do that.

I'm aware of the "bug" that positions the laser off-center above the target, but as for the rest of your statement... I'd say that is down to user-error.

 

Example:-  Here is a quick work-around for the issue you described.

 - Position UAVs in a way that they are unable to become targets and get shot at. (Like hard-cover, defilade or at a distance outside effective range of the enemy)
 - Wait until enemy anti-air assets are neutralized before setting up
 - If all else fails, only expose the UAVs to enemy contact for a short time to reduce the likelihood of being shot-down. (Target lase from a distance, move into range, drop bombs, exfil.)

 

Personally, as long as I have followed any one of the three above examples I have rarely experienced any issue of losing drones apart from the occasional patrolling enemy jet and I'm sure many other regulars could join me in agreement.

 

Hope this helps provide some clarity and context. Additionally, once the new version of I&A4 is released this will no longer be an issue as the UAV operator role is removed entirely and replaced by a new system. But for the time being, I find the current system satisfactory.

[Stanhope]

I&A is infantry focused, so yes, support assets like the UAV, but also the regular jets, have lasers removed.  And yes, a guy with an AT launcher can clear an entire AO of armour in minutes.  But that's by design.  I could just as easily limit the amount of missiles you're able to carry in a car as it is to take away a laser from UAVs and jets.  But we're not doing that because I&A is infantry focused. 

Additionally, you haven't even brought up that darters can be used to completely get around not having lasers on greyhawks and the ucav.  And that this basically just means you only have to deal with a bit more annoyance (in the form of a darter) and wait just a bit longer to do your uncalled cas (because you know, darters are slow). 

But it works.  Since implementing that the amount of people doing uncalled cas as a UAV operator has gone down.  And the amount of times that the UAV operator was called in hasn't gone down at the same rate, not even significantly.  So I guess it works. 

So unless you can suggest something that would stop UAV operators from doing uncalled cas while simultaneously giving the laser designators back this is a solid no for me.

 

^Just my 2 cents

[Pickle]

6 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

I&A is infantry focused, so yes, support assets like the UAV, but also the regular jets, have lasers removed.  And yes, a guy with an AT launcher can clear an entire AO of armour in minutes.  But that's by design.  I could just as easily limit the amount of missiles you're able to carry in a car as it is to take away a laser from UAVs and jets.  But we're not doing that because I&A is infantry focused. 

Additionally, you haven't even brought up that darters can be used to completely get around not having lasers on greyhawks and the ucav.  And that this basically just means you only have to deal with a bit more annoyance (in the form of a darter) and wait just a bit longer to do your uncalled cas (because you know, darters are slow). 

But it works.  Since implementing that the amount of people doing uncalled cas as a UAV operator has gone down.  And the amount of times that the UAV operator was called in hasn't gone down at the same rate, not even significantly.  So I guess it works. 

So unless you can suggest something that would stop UAV operators from doing uncalled cas while simultaneously giving the laser designators back this is a solid no for me.

 

^Just my 2 

I actually have bad news for darter too. Yes darters take some time to set up that is a problem however that is not the main problem with them. You have to keep them at 50m altitude if you dont want enemy to shoot it down. And because of a bug in locking into targets, darters are lasing 1 meter above the target. In order to fix it, you have to keep the darter at higher altitudes but as I said, enemy will shoot the darter if you do that. 

 

I would like to suggest an idea that could be a script for preventing uncalled CAS. When someone needs cas, they type a command (lets say it is "!CAS"). And this action starts a 1 or 2 minutes countdown. UAV operator can only drop bombs in this countdown. When the UAV operator tries to drop bomb without someone triggering countdown, bombs won't drop. 

 

As a different variation of this idea, all UAVs are unarmed and when someone types the command in chat, one of the UAVs will get rearmed with only 1 GBU. If UAV operator don't use it, bomb will get removed in 1 or 2 minutes.

 

If those suggestions are not satisfying, I would also like to suggest making darters invisible for AI. It is really annoying to see tigrises using AA missiles to shoot darters. Sometimes tigris even trying to snipe darters from 1.5 km away. 

[Stanhope]

20 minutes ago, Berker said:

I would like to suggest an idea that could be a script for preventing uncalled CAS. When someone needs cas, they type a command (lets say it is "!CAS"). And this action starts a 1 or 2 minutes countdown. UAV operator can only drop bombs in this countdown. When the UAV operator tries to drop bomb without someone triggering countdown, bombs won't drop. 

I can't make it so the bomb won't drop.  I can only make it so the bomb gets deleted when it drops.  Additionally it'd require a lot of network calls back and forth, slowing down the server for everyone, to fix an 'issue' 1 slot is having.

 

22 minutes ago, Berker said:

As a different variation of this idea, all UAVs are unarmed and when someone types the command in chat, one of the UAVs will get rearmed with only 1 GBU. If UAV operator don't use it, bomb will get removed in 1 or 2 minutes.

Same problem

 

22 minutes ago, Berker said:

If those suggestions are not satisfying, I would also like to suggest making darters invisible for AI. It is really annoying to see tigrises using AA missiles to shoot darters. Sometimes tigris even trying to snipe darters from 1.5 km away

But that'd allow you to park your darter literally above the target, taking away any kind of imprecisions.  Which would be rather OP. 

[Pickle]

New idea! What if admins or zeus spawn a ghosthawk that has no armament but only laser. They will do it to only trusted members. You can create a post on forum that has list of trusted members. Or even put the list on map's briefing tab to make it easier for admins. 

7 hours ago, Stanhope said:

But that'd allow you to park your darter literally above the target, taking away any kind of imprecisions.  Which would be rather OP. 

By the way, isn't the precision whole point of UAVs? And CAS must be OP that is why it is being called. If we're agoing to keep it not over powered, what's the point of limiting it with rules.

Also how much ever it is OP, people literally hate CAS, no one calls in and when they rarely do it, it's really annoying to miss the target. But yeah complete invisibility would be unfair. 

[Stanhope]

For starters not nobody calls it in, I know several regulars that will happily call it it.  Next no, UAVs aren't supposed to be over powered.  They're supposed to be very powerful.  If I wanted them to be overpowered I'd give them SDBs  And finally, that's a lot of work for something that requires 2 people, one of which is a pilot to lase a target for a 3rd person.

[RiverWolf]

Personally I was not a fan of losing the lasers when it happened back in the day but after a little time and some runs I'm able to use the drones to good effect.

[WinterMute]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:00 AM, Stanhope said:

For starters not nobody calls it in, I know several regulars that will happily call it it.

 

The other night we had the problem where so many people were lazing the same target the UAV pilot (of known high standard) was unable to get a lock.