new [Suggestion] Add a pilot to each squad, Remove Alpha Rifleman + AT.

[KingScuba]

What this will Involve : Demolish the current pilot team, add a pilot to each squad, and remove the spots "Rifleman" and "Rifleman [AT]"

 

The New Team Setup :

 

Squad Leader

Medic

Repair Sepcialist

Explosive Specialist

Autorifleman

Grenadier

Marksman

Vortex Pilot

 

 

Why this suggestion? : The main idea for this setup is to promote the use of team gameplay, and hopefully get rid of the "lone wolf" garbage. Each pilot is responsible for his squad, and his squad alone. This will also give us 5 of each player, instead of 4, so 5 medics, 5 squad leaders, and so on. The pilot can then simply play as needed / wishes after landing... Either with his team when he lands, and blow up his helicopter, or he can choose to do nothing but fly. It would also eliminate the issue of teams being seperated since each littlebird can only hold 8 players in any case, and each squad consists of 9 players (GRANTED, most people don't listen and get together atm...). I also suggest keeping the teams limited to 8 is because a littlebird can only hold 8 players

 

What I would expect this to help with is again, Raising team gameplay and helping solidify each role. It would also help eliminate the spammed "Side" and "Global" chats.

 

Squad Name Suggestions if this is implemented : Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel... Or any other NATO names found

[John McClane]

I personally do not agree with this. I understand what you are saying but there would be to many pilots. And quite frankly we dont need that many.  With 3-4 pilots that are able to communicate and actually do there jobs then it can work perfectly fine. I do think that 1-2 extra pilot slots should be added. And recently the Ahoy admins have been brought to attention the fact that in the US Server that allot of pilots arent doing there job. So now the admins are gonna be cracking down and making sure that they do there jobs and if they dont the admins will take appropriate action.

[KingScuba]

I personally do not agree with this. I understand what you are saying but there would be to many pilots. And quite frankly we dont need that many.  With 3-4 pilots that are able to communicate and actually do there jobs then it can work perfectly fine. I do think that 1-2 extra pilot slots should be added. And recently the Ahoy admins have been brought to attention the fact that in the US Server that allot of pilots arent doing there job. So now the admins are gonna be cracking down and making sure that they do there jobs and if they dont the admins will take appropriate action.

 

The main idea of this is to promote team play, Which is non existent in the server. peopel do whatever they want and squads are spread throughout the map.

 

Pilots atm as you said, do not listen, do not coordinate, or simply cannot fly. For 40 players, 3 littlebirds is sort of enough, 3 mid range transport helicopters would be much better, but this is not the point of my suggestion.

 

You also just contradicted yourself... You said you don't think there should be more than 3 pilots, however you also said there should be 4 or 5 pilots.... I'm only asking to add 2 more pilots to the server... Having 2 pilots on standy will create nothing but drama, normally in the case of "Let me fly /cry/cry/cry" or "You suck at flying, I'm better, now let me fly /rage/rage/rage". 1 pilot per chopper.

[John McClane]

I agree with what you are saying, but do you honestly think that they are going to "fly there squad"? I think you are right. We need more pilots. I think we should have 4 of them 2 Littlebirds. 2 Ka-60's. BUT i do not think that there should be a pilot for each squad cause even if it was with each squad most of the time squads dont stick together and are spread out anyway. 

[KingScuba]

You have to realize that quite a few of the players are new to ARMA. If you prod them along, and simply kick the ones who don't listen (By kick i mean just a kick from the server, not a ban of any sort), you can easily establish this kind of environment. In arma 2 servers, I work in squads all the time without TS. You simply hop in, and someone is usually playing the leader or is willing to listen to you.

 

Vanilla servers such as ahoy obviously are going to have a bit more of a challenge. Domination is a squad based game, Lone wolfing it makes it pretty hard to accomplish anything. The key to establishing a command base is simply getting a core group, and constantly spreading (and kicking) when necessary.

 

The current problem I see is that noone wants to particularly make a group and take charge of it. As soon as I got on and started barking orders, All of a sudden Ive got a group under me, and the commanders of the other groups are also listening to me. Obviously we have Lone wolves even in that situation, simply because it was done out of the blue, but the fact remains it can be done pretty easily.

 

So my answer to you is No. I do not expect 75% of the current Ahoy server to follow this. However if ahoy establishes a small force to start implementing this, you will see it happen in fairly short time.

[kamaradski]

I like this setup on a closed server, and i would deffo try this in the Tactical gamenights Apollo is organizing

 

However i think it will not work on public. But thats just my thoughts on this.

[KingScuba]

I like this setup on a closed server, and i would deffo try this in the Tactical gamenights Apollo is organizing

 

However i think it will not work on public. But thats just my thoughts on this.

 

It all comes back to enlightening the new players and setting up some gameplan rules. I haven't met many people who prefer to lone wolf it rather than work in a squad in my 2 odd years of arma (NOT COUNTING DAYZ. Thats not arma, and even in there you generally play with a friend or 2). Its much more gratifying to win together than to win alone.

[kamaradski]

I agree, and thats why i play arma and nothing else

 

However as being admin on these public servers i still witness many lone wolf actions, and unfortunately its still very rare to see actual squads stick together. Also more often then not people just jump into the first available helicopter and they don't even care what LZ or AO it will go to, they just want to go back into action...

 

As long as ARMA is still attracting new players and publicity this will stay a issue, hopefully after full release this will level out a bit.

[Hoax]

I agree with what you are saying, but do you honestly think that they are going to "fly there squad"? I think you are right. We need more pilots. I think we should have 4 of them 2 Littlebirds. 2 Ka-60's. BUT i do not think that there should be a pilot for each squad cause even if it was with each squad most of the time squads dont stick together and are spread out anyway. 

 

I think 2 of each type would be overkill for the number of slots, 3 little birds works out just about right for the number of players making transport pilots be careful so as not to waste assets.  If we add more choppers there will be less for the pilots to do and will encourage messing around.

[Grumpy Rhino]

I have a crazy idea: A new score-system where only your squad gets points. If you or one of your squadmates makes a kill or blow up a target structure, the squad gets a point. If you or one of your squadmates gets shot and choses to respawn, the squad looses a point. If the medic revives no point is lost.

 

 

The individual score-system might make new players focus only on their own score.

 

Squad-points forces the team to stick together to be successfull on the scoreboard. It also reflects the Ahoy community's desire for teamplay.

 

 

And about pilots. 3 choppers are enough in my opinion. But that requires pilots that are at least average in skill. The lines of people getting stuck waiting for transport can quickly pile up, if two of the pilots don't know how to do their job.

[Brooksie10]

I think the setup now is good, I know that currently squads don't seem that organised but with some teamspeak co-ordination it is organised.  Is there really that much for helicopters? 

[Cain]

It makes it much easier for pilots to be in the same group (plus it does make more sense) because they can use the group channel to avoid cluttering side with voice comms about landings and such, as well as common banter when someone crashes/gets shot out. Always nice to keep the mood light and the atmosphere fun.

 

I don't think we should force players to stick with their squads and such. It'd be nice, sure, but it'd discourage some people. If people want to play as a squad properly, they can switch out with people who don't, by going to the lobby and such. It might be long-winded, but its better than forcing it on people. Something like that might be better suited to the more 'tactical realism' servers and such, like when we have our game nights.

 

On the subject of the amount of helis, what we've got right now is just about perfect, in my opinion. Three littlebirds is enough, and when the KA-60s are given as side mission rewards, even better. More helicopters/pilots leads to a larger chance of idiots getting into the slots, and not to mention collisions around the landing pads.

 

Also, I don't know whether you're talking about the EU or US server, but I'm going to assume the US server, as I've been flying constantly on the EU with a bunch of other pilots, and we communicate with each other, and can fly well. Not necessarily listen, because in my opinion the pilot's in charge of his helicopter, and specifically where he lands. I've learned the hard way to ignore most pleas of 'please land at lz xyz' and stick to my trusted LZs because I get shot to hell when I come in for landing. Occasionally, if someone I know asks to be taken somewhere, I'll listen, but the majority of the time, good players will listen and stick with their pilot's choice, if its a decent pilot.

[GTOSID]

-1 on the topic. i agree with cain on this one

[KingScuba]

. Not necessarily listen, because in my opinion the pilot's in charge of his helicopter, and specifically where he lands. I've learned the hard way to ignore most pleas of 'please land at lz xyz' and stick to my trusted LZs because I get shot to hell when I come in for landing. Occasionally, if someone I know asks to be taken somewhere, I'll listen, but the majority of the time, good players will listen and stick with their pilot's choice, if its a decent pilot.

 

It should be the Squad Leaders say where his squad lands. Obviously you as the pilot should be ignoring an idiot request, such as landing straight in the middle of Base of the enemy ao if it's not secured, but a leader should be able to Designate a safe LZ that's easy for the pilot to ingress and egress from. If said leader CAN'T, he shouldn't be squad leader.

[sm0]

It should be the Squad Leaders say where his squad lands. Obviously you as the pilot should be ignoring an idiot request, such as landing straight in the middle of Base of the enemy ao if it's not secured, but a leader should be able to Designate a safe LZ that's easy for the pilot to ingress and egress from. If said leader CAN'T, he shouldn't be squad leader.

You're absolutely right if this was about game night, but we're still on the public server here.

[wok]

You're absolutely right if this was about game night, but we're still on the public server here.

 

Agree, is not so easy to enforce this kind of things in a public server. Maybe we could have a list of rules/tasks a player is expected to follow depending of his class, and show them when they first spawn, like the way the AW welcome message is displayed. This could encourage an even more organized teamplay and may make the player more aware of their role in the team and what is expected from him.

 

For example, letting squad leaders know they should be the one designating the squad's LZ and arranging the transport to get there. Reminding the repair specs to always carry a toolkit and explosive specs to carry charges, medics to stick with their squad, etc. I think enforcing squad leaders to be on TS will help a lot with this, they will have direct communication with the pilots and squads will probably be more organized.

[FATS***]

I agree as far as we do need to come up with more ways to promote squad cohesion but i think that thats at squad level irrespective of the pilots role

 

Ground vehicles need to be more widely used (although i know some players do an awesome job in the hunters particularly savvy medics)
would there be much harm in adding 1 MG armed hunter at spawn rather than just a bonus item

i know id play vehicle patrols more if we had a big gun on it (not the GMG)

 

 

More radio channels/ custom channels would be welcomed as it can get really busy in side channel with :

• Banter
• Firemissions
• Pilots 
• Whinging
• Orders
• IDIOTS PLAYING MUSIC etc

all going on at once

 

 

 

It all comes back to enlightening the new players and setting up some gameplan rules. I haven't met many people who prefer to lone wolf it rather than work in a squad in my 2 odd years of arma (NOT COUNTING DAYZ. Thats not arma, and even in there you generally play with a friend or 2). Its much more gratifying to win together than to win alone.

 

[RANT]

One minor point of annoyance unless im blind you cannot see what character class/role you are without exiting to the lobby this could cause confusion with newer players particularly if they join at 39 players and the only slot available is something called Haymaker 

Any chance of getting some text or guidelines for playing the roles in the mission briefing on map screen?

[John McClane]

Any chance of getting some text or guidelines for playing the roles in the mission briefing on map screen?

 

I agree with this, give people something to read so they know our rules and guidelines on the server. I also think that we need to advertise teamspeak and get good players in there that is also another way to keep coms down. We have the particular squad channles. If the squads need to comunicate then they can use the sidechannle. 

 

If we do add something to the map i think this should be on there

 

Use Of Global- You have no need to use it so never use it.

Use of Side- This is For command elements and Pilots

Use Of Vehicle- Use this to communicate with ppl in your vehicle to tell the pilot where the LZ is and anything else you need.

Use of Direct- Use this to communicate to anyone around you.

 

And again i think we need to advertise teamspeak allot more in our server. ANd make it a requirement to have pilots fly.

[Brooksie10]

And again i think we need to advertise teamspeak allot more in our server. And make it a requirement to have pilots fly.

We cant make that the case due to some members having hearing difficulties making it hard for them to use Teamspeak.

 

How would you advertise the Teamspeak differently?  Our server reminds the players every so often that there is a Teamspeak and admins should be trying to get the plays to use Teamspeak where possible.  Just looking for ideas

[KingScuba]

We cant make that the case due to some members having hearing difficulties making it hard for them to use Teamspeak.

 

How would you advertise the Teamspeak differently?  Our server reminds the players every so often that there is a Teamspeak and admins should be trying to get the plays to use Teamspeak where possible.

 

Having (TS REQUIRED FOR THIS SLOT) next to the slot in question, having the IP listed on the map near base via perm marker (Ahoy Worlds TS is (IP) ALL Pilots and Squad Leaders are REQUIRED to be on it) Thats how we do it in Arma 2 dude. There's also no Introduction, rule set, or anything in the map.

 

And again, I play public servers on arma 2, and have NO ISSUE getting organized WITHOUT Teamspeak using the SAME CHAT CHANNELS. The player community is not a pack of new players who have no concept of how to play in a squad. The admins kick you if you're being a lone wolf or being stupid, and that gets the message across. It all depends on how active your admins want to be and the rules you choose to enforce. At the moment, the only rule you choose to enforce is ... really... Well whatever the admin is in the mood for it seems.

 

 

The rules should be under the Map Briefing, in different tabs. for example, Server Rules, Pilot Rules, Medic Rules, Chat rules, ETC ETC

[John McClane]

I just think that individual people should actually advertise teamspeak. And even add a marker on the map because it can sometimes be difficult to look for when the server announces.

[Brooksie10]

Having (TS REQUIRED FOR THIS SLOT) next to the slot in question

 

We will not be doing this.  AhoyWorld doesn't have a policy of excluding anyone from our community or any function of it unless they have proven to be someone who doesn't respect the community.

 

Our admins don't pick and choose which rules to enforce the enforce breaches in rules they can see according to our guidelines.  If you think otherwise, please let me know of an occurrence and I will investigate.  We take that sort of thing rather seriously as you might imagine, that sort of admin is pointless.

As for adding rules and other information to the map isn't a bad idea.  Adding the teamspeak address to the map caused problems when we shared the mission possibly we could included in the internal AW build and not in a public one, will talk to the other guys about this.  

 

Some of the player community (a very small part of it) does have the Call of Duty attitude to arma and well there are plenty of people who do go lone wolf even those that you would consider to be tactical players will charge in front of the main group and not stay in formation.  If they wish to play like that we aren't likely to kick them at the end of the day AW creates a fun environment within a tactical setting that is for everyone.  

I would like it if everyone who joins the server played tactically all the time, I would play on our server all the time if that was the case.  Unfortunately you get 12 Year Olds who think they are General Patterson, who wouldn't know tactics if it marched in a column formation at them.  We have our tactical gaming nights and they are awesome.  I like to think our public server does offer the chance for tactics but I would hate the community if to keep that tactical setting we kicked anyone who went lone wolf, kick anyone who goes a bit further ahead of his squad, kick anyone who won't fit my boxes of what makes an ArmA Player.

[kamaradski]

~Having (TS REQUIRED FOR THIS SLOT) next to the slot in question,~

~having the IP listed on the map near base via perm marker (Ahoy Worlds TS is (IP) ~

~ALL Pilots and Squad Leaders are REQUIRED to be on it) ~

~There's also no Introduction, rule set, or anything in the map.~

~The admins kick you if you're being a lone wolf or being stupid, and that gets the message across.~

~the only rule you choose to enforce is ... really... Well whatever the admin is in the mood for it seems.~

~The rules should be under the Map Briefing, in different tabs. for example, Server Rules, Pilot Rules, Medic Rules, Chat rules, ETC ETC~

Alright i have cutted you post into bits and will reply to some of it:

1: We strongly advice to be on TS of you are in certain slots like the Pilot, however it is not set in stone, nor is it a requirement, and for sure you will not be kicked out of the slot for the reason you are not in TS. You will be removed out of the slot if you are rubbish and thus hindering the gameplay of others.

2: This is actually a good idea, and we even did this for a while however with our map being downloaded and used on so many servers it confused people and even still we have people logging into TS that are actually playing on a total different server... (And it sometimes makes for very funny situations i can say) I'm guessing this is not the most optimal way to go, and might have to look for other ideas and suggestions.

3: TS will never be a requirement, just a strong advisory. We have many very good pilots that are not on TS, and do everything by text-chat. Also making this a requirement would be discrimination against disabled people not able to use teamspeak for whatever reason.

4: Here you have a valid point. So recently we put the rules up in the forums, and we also came up with some very cool ideas to display these rules in the game, not only in the intro-screen. However as with the influx of expansion we didnt got to it yet.

5: We dont really do that as long as the player is not hindering other players by being a lone wolf. So this already insures you cannot lone wolf on one of the critical slots like pilot or medic for example. AW is a place for everyone to enjoy gaming, and if lone wolf is your thing, and you are not in anyones way, you are happy to play on our servers. We are not a milsim server. Things that do get you booted: ideling and thus taking a slot away from someone that would activly enjoy our server, being stupid and uncooperative.

6: We enforce the rules as they are stated on the forum. We do appriciate any help in enforcing these rules so you are always welcome to report it when you see people breaking these rules, the admin online will then deal with it as he seems fit. After all we cannot possibly see everything always. If however our rules are not strickt enough for you liking: ok sorry but i'm sure you will find you place in arma somewhere. Like state before we are no milsim, and neighter do our members enjoy playing in a prison i guess

7: You are right, we can do with advertising the rules a bit more, and as mentioned before this is planned for the near future.

And as a reply to one of your previous posts in this thread: I do like it when people are actually taking lead, and i can say we have many of them on the server to name just 2 there is Conner and Apollo. It works very well for them and it will be for you too i'm sure of it. However do not expect other people to be exactly the same, This is still public server so you get all sorts of people here, not just people that have signed up for a particular game style (example: realism clan, or the likes)

So expect to encounter followers, leaders, serious players, relaxed players that want a bit of weekend fun and even newbies....yes they also welcome here...

So having that out of the way we can continue this thread on topic please. Above items can be discussed in their own threads if you like.

 

 

Cross-post with brooksie. anyway you get the idea...

[KingScuba]

Alright i have cutted you post into bits and will reply to some of it:

1: We strongly advice to be on TS of you are in certain slots like the Pilot, however it is not set in stone, nor is it a requirement, and for sure you will not be kicked out of the slot for the reason you are not in TS. You will be removed out of the slot if you are rubbish and thus hindering the gameplay of others.

2: This is actually a good idea, and we even did this for a while however with our map being downloaded and used on so many servers it confused people and even still we have people logging into TS that are actually playing on a total different server... (And it sometimes makes for very funny situations i can say) I'm guessing this is not the most optimal way to go, and might have to look for other ideas and suggestions.

3: TS will never be a requirement, just a strong advisory. We have many very good pilots that are not on TS, and do everything by text-chat. Also making this a requirement would be discrimination against disabled people not able to use teamspeak for whatever reason.

4: Here you have a valid point. So recently we put the rules up in the forums, and we also came up with some very cool ideas to display these rules in the game, not only in the intro-screen. However as with the influx of expansion we didnt got to it yet.

5: We dont really do that as long as the player is not hindering other players by being a lone wolf. So this already insures you cannot lone wolf on one of the critical slots like pilot or medic for example. AW is a place for everyone to enjoy gaming, and if lone wolf is your thing, and you are not in anyones way, you are happy to play on our servers. We are not a milsim server. Things that do get you booted: ideling and thus taking a slot away from someone that would activly enjoy our server, being stupid and uncooperative.

6: We enforce the rules as they are stated on the forum. We do appriciate any help in enforcing these rules so you are always welcome to report it when you see people breaking these rules, the admin online will then deal with it as he seems fit. After all we cannot possibly see everything always. If however our rules are not strickt enough for you liking: ok sorry but i'm sure you will find you place in arma somewhere. Like state before we are no milsim, and neighter do our members enjoy playing in a prison i guess

7: You are right, we can do with advertising the rules a bit more, and as mentioned before this is planned for the near future.

And as a reply to one of your previous posts in this thread: I do like it when people are actually taking lead, and i can say we have many of them on the server to name just 2 there is Conner and Apollo. It works very well for them and it will be for you too i'm sure of it. However do not expect other people to be exactly the same, This is still public server so you get all sorts of people here, not just people that have signed up for a particular game style (example: realism clan, or the likes)

So expect to encounter followers, leaders, serious players, relaxed players that want a bit of weekend fun and even newbies....yes they also welcome here...

So having that out of the way we can continue this thread on topic please. Above items can be discussed in their own threads if you like.

 

 

Cross-post with brooksie. anyway you get the idea...

 

2) The simple solution there would simply be Keep the map markers on the server you run, and not include the marker in the public release. Simple as that.

 

3) I agree. If the pilot can listen and follow orders without being in teamspeak, more power to him. I see many ts3 only slots being lenient for such things.

 

4) There are a few ways to do the rules. The most common is to place them under briefing in map. I'll post another quick suggestion for you in a moment concerning this.

 

5) Obviously there will always be these guys. My thing is they need to stay in Alpha squad or something. When your playing all the way down in delta, and you're running with some guys, then some clown decides to pick Mechanic and NOT listen, Not respond, and lone wolf, I suddenly have a problem with him. This is a shoot game, and everyone fancies themselves rambo.

 

I must be having a miscommunication here with you guys. My goal is to encourage and enlighten players, and try to get them with the program. I believe that 90% of the server would gladly go squad based AND still have a ton of fun if they knew how to do it. There will be lone wolfs, but even then the lone wolves would probably enjoy being Recon and communicate. If you can teach people, they'll play how arma and your server was ideally envisioned. I am guilty of not running with arma well until I joined taw, and started playing in their practices. I learned what weapon red meant, Different formations, Working with other teams. I'm having more fun playing arma than I ever have simply because I know these 3 things, and I know A LOT more than that.

 

7) This is the arma community dude. It's the most welcoming and awesome community going. Of course newbies are welcome. Closed headed newbies are not (The ones who ask how to do something, and don't listen, then rage and rage). I expect everyone in the arma community to help new players, just as the veteran players have helped all of you, I'm sure. Arma is a great game, and can be played in as many ways as can be imagined since it's one of the only true sandbox games around. It's also one of the hardest games to play.

[kamaradski]

I must be having a miscommunication here with you guys. 

No offence taken however when you mentioned that our admins only kick for whatever is the current mood, that kinda got me going. As we do put a lot of effort to make sure all administration actions are fair and 'by the book' and all admins are actually doing a fantastic job in my opinion.

 

 

My goal is to encourage and enlighten players,

very noble, but you can only take it that far. and this being public servers all players will have different way of play, we all need to respect that. Also that's why they are free to choose whatever slot they like. Again i cannot stress enough that this is a free to everyone public non milsim server.

 

 

but I only ever see kicking for being overly aggressive towards players (Cursing, etc), Hacking (*Duh*), and Constant Team killing.

That are exactly the reasons we kick for. It all boils down to "please don't be a dick" and as long players are not a dick by hindering others, we can all live perfectly fine next to each other

 

By going this much off topic you effectively killed your own thread, and now nothing might come from your suggestion.

So please back to topic now as i don't want to lock the thread. Discuss the rules in a separate thread if you feel the need to.