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25 minutes ago, Minipily said:

There's so much that Bohemia got lazy on.

I think there's an upper limit to which they were looking to aim at, in terms of returns on realism. There's also a performance consideration at play.

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2 minutes ago, Ryko said:

I think there's an upper limit to which they were looking to aim at, in terms of returns on realism. There's also a performance consideration at play.

True, true. It just feels so... empty, so to speak, when comparing the two I find. Then again, I suppose it depends how much you are looking to get out of the game and everyone's mileage varies.

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On 3/6/2019 at 9:51 PM, Ryko said:

I'd like to table the discusssion of ACE medical for now and focus on my other question - what other facets of ACE are must-haves, or is it really just for ACE medical that we consider ACE.

For me ACE medical is the core part because otherwise the gameplay mostly just feels like run&gun and the medic isn't really satisfying to play (and if I want that run&gun I would rather just play BF or any game like that instead of ARMA). But If there is another mod that does the same as ACE medical but has lesser size, etc. I would also be onboard with it.

Other than the medical stuff I think the only thing I would really miss is the repairing of actual components on vehicles & changing tires, etc because it makes the engineer a bit more satisfying.

Everything else that ACE offers is definitly nice but not a must have in my opinion.

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So I'll throw in my opinion in after the horse has bolted as per usual and say, I don't think there's ever been a problem with AWE content, at least not to the extent that would cause having to put the server on a hiatus and go through this rigmarole.

 

I think the issue has never been the mods, but the perceived accessibility. The vast majority of the AhoyWorld member intake is through the EU1 I&A server, that being a public server with quite an easy game flow (get in helicopter, get out, shoot stuff, rinse & repeat), quite a lot of the players that come through are new players (possibly also new to the genre) and don't really understand all that's going on.

 

It's really easy as someone involved in AWE (not talking about myself here btw) to see how it works, but it needs to be looked at from the perspective of someone who doesn't. This was why way back when, the server was re-branded to AWE away from EU3 which gave an outsider zero information on it whatsoever. Getting people through the door to it was a massive issue, take a look at the AWE playerbase and you'll see what I mean, almost all the players were people who'd been playing for a long time, new people just weren't coming through the door. It's only natural that those players would gradually decrease over time, which lead us to the point we're at right now.

 

Lone start making a tutorial series which would've helped get people through the door, but that didn't get completed. Outside that and a few basic written tutorials, to an outsider, the unknown of it can be intimidating.

 

Now speaking exclusively for myself, even at the time I led the site I didn't get involved in it all that much, because so much of it was still unknown. I joined in with the gamenights as a team member, as I could easily follow the flow and just follow what everyone else was doing. Wouldn't have had a hope in normal play though where everyone does their own bit of leadership and responsibility to complete the objective.

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This is such an important point and I'm glad David made it.  I think most people are looking for a non-vanilla experience - something tactical that feels more realistic, mostly because it doesn't use the 2035 tech but the modern modded content.  Whatever direction we go, it has to be accessible, for the big reason that we don't want to go through a huge headache of setting this up to accommodate the 5 players that will play it.

 

If this was a milsim server I would be onboard with adding all the realism mods you could find, but this has been the chronic problem of AWE - it's the worst of both worlds (vanilla & milsim).  Accordingly I think we have to focus on simplifying and making the barriers to entry low.  Just requiring people to use a mic is going to filter out a huge percentage of people, but that's ok - we probably weren't going to attract those people anyway.  After that, the size of the modpack.  And then after that, the complexity level for how to jump into the action.

 

Noah, I do take your points about ACE making the medic and engineer roles more satisfying to play.

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Apart from the fact that I disagree on AWE being the worst of both world, I understand your point. And while the "bar of entry" is a valid concern, I feel that setting it too low will make the server too casual to enjoy for many players. We should perhaps focus on helping new players jump the bar, rather than keep lowering it. Apart from players being welcoming to new people, I'm sure that running regular zeus events (which I gladly will, as time permits) will also help with that. Maybe some sort of  introduction sessions, that I remember we had on AWE a while back.

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4 minutes ago, JANXOL said:

Apart from the fact that I disagree on AWE being the worst of both world, I understand your point. And while the "bar of entry" is a valid concern, I feel that setting it too low will make the server too casual to enjoy for many players. We should perhaps focus on helping new players jump the bar, rather than keep lowering it.

 

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1 hour ago, JANXOL said:

Apart from the fact that I disagree on AWE being the worst of both world,

I feel I need to clarify this point.

 

With milsim, you have the luxury of being able to vet your membership through an application and qualification process, so you get exactly the players you want to play with.  Unfortunately this can result in a long learning curve and it can take a while before a new player feels comfortable on the server given specific mods, rules and other practices which take a while to understand.

 

With a purely public server, you have the luxury of being able to instantly drop into the action without needing to have a unique understanding of the game - it's likely just an extension of the Arma 3 game mode.  Unfortunately you attract almost anyone, which means you get a wide variety of attitudes, understandings and preferences trying to co-exist in the same server.

 

As AWE didn't require any application to participate, and had an extensive array of mods, I felt justified in saying we had the "worst of both worlds", but also, we had the best of both worlds - it's up for debate whether the one superceded the other.  But historically on AWE there was a strong butting of heads between players who wanted one type of playstyle over another.

1 hour ago, JANXOL said:

I feel that setting it too low will make the server too casual to enjoy for many players. We should perhaps focus on helping new players jump the bar, rather than keep lowering it.

I think it's worth spending some time in this thread figuring out how high we want that bar to be in the first place.  I take your point.  I think starting with a very slim modset will overcome many of the problems AWE initially faced (who wants to download 30 GB of mods?).

 

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3 hours ago, Ryko said:

I think it's worth spending some time in this thread figuring out how high we want that bar to be in the first place.  I take your point.  I think starting with a very slim modset will overcome many of the problems AWE initially faced (who wants to download 30 GB of mods?).

 

I believe a simplified modset and perhaps a simpler style of ACE and what not may be a good start, keeps AWE somewhat familiar to the oldies while also catering for some of the newbies whom may not be interested in straying too far from their familiar lands.

 

The bar shouldn't be lowered significantly, but I can understand perhaps a slight drop in the difficulty to account for newer folk that are perhaps not comfortable with straying too far from what they understand. Still, there should come a point when we have a significant enough community of players within the AWE division that we may consider raising the bar once more, by that point I'm sure they will feel more comfortable but it can always be discussed then on what the wider population wants and what is best perceived to keep bringing folk in.

 

I don't think keeping things super simple will help personally, just because I've seen what fast paced easy gameplay does and what it did do to the server, but of course going into the deep end before we can swim isn't going to bring anyone over.

 

Perhaps it may be worth gathering returning seniors of the community and AWE as well as bringing any newbies interested in the concept of the server for a little meeting, maybe even a gaming meet if just talking sounds far too boring, and discuss what we all think as a community? I think it's always important to just hear everyone's points and try to keep everyone together, and we might even hear from said newbies about what they'd like to see. May also be useful to hear from any current staff and maybe want-to-be staff on what they think will work, of course some of the people that have been here long enough to see AW's and AWE's ups and downs should have some decent enough advice.

 

Just a thought but I'm sure things can still be worked out anyhow, the thread is good so far but a live chat can always make things clearer and we've had good enough meetings in the past.

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Posted (edited)

I think the key is an amalgamation of what everyone's said. I don't think necessarily a 30GB modset is a bad thing, at least not for people who are already playing, but for newcomers, very few people are going to jump into the joining process for AWE and a 30GB download on the back of a few written tutorials and a couple of billboards, it's too much of an investment for an unknown. So on that, yes a more space efficient modset would be beneficial, however I think having to download any modset is a significant gate to push through in and of itself. Personally, I would focus mostly on making the joining process as easy as possible, it's not a case of if you build it, they will come. It's never going to be a one click process bit simplifying it where you can is a must. Understanding it's a bit of an undertaking, some regular induction sessions might be an idea.

 

Unfortunately I don't think that whatever happens with the modset, without a bit of handholding for new members, at least until the server is self sustained, we're probably going to end up right back here.

Edited by David
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Im just gonna say, for what i remember im the newest member so if you guys want input from the newest member like mini suggested. Just ask. I have a few ideas but some of them are already mentioned if not all of them are.

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GUTTED is not the word about finding out the AWE server had closed i mainly stopped playing as i was at work a lot more and there was never anyone else around when i was lol.  I had some amazing experiences on there and really enjoyed myself.  I did Miss BAF a lot when that was removed.  I do think the biggest problem is the actually getting started with arma3 sync which tbh isnt the easyist experence, I was lucky i had help of some of the staff i had met on EU1 and  EU2.  I haven't played any Arma for a while as Ive been playing other things but i just thought I fancy a play on EU3 so loaded up the mods and it was no more.  mind you i tried EU 1 through arma Sync and that didnt work either lol

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Returning to the humble roots of EU#3 will appeal to both the older and newer players.

 

Rookies will find a shallower learning curve through the mods and the setup, but will learn to understand the levels of hierarchy and casual-realism that makes EU#3 so special.

 

In my opinion, the most important thing is appealing to new players. EU#3 cant exactly start again if we only appeal to us old-timers. Not to say that we cant be there.

 

Running with a simple modset sounds great to me, but ACE is a pillar of modded Arma and it should defiantly be kept. As for the other mods I think I've already voiced my opinion enough, but so far I think the plan looks good. The ACE ragdolls, as @Minipily has said, would be great, it completely changes the meta for the better. ACE Splint would be good too, and I think the obvious client side mods should be allowed. Enhance Movement would be abused as, from what I've seen, even in the MSO, it kinda provokes people just going off on their own. It's not needed and it's not particularly realistic.

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Stuff like mod size isn't realy much issue these days, since people tend to have good connection and space on disk unlike X years ago.

 

Having a very good and step-by-step dumb-proof tutorial to install the mods, is MUCH more important.

Back when I did it, I used forum post here and it worked for me, but I'm IT person, and can see how casual user can be bit intimidated.

If it can be more automated, all the better.

 

That being said, for me the appeal of AWE was teamplay and especially ZEUSed missions, where dedicated ZEUS would make the experience for players even better.

 

To be honest, I would enjoy most of it even with pure vanila, with all those 2035 weapons and whatnot.

Mods are nice, but not nearly as important as the organized teamplay experience and Opfor presenting intelligent challenge (with help of Zeus).

Since server-side mods have improved AI significatly (clearly visible on EU1) it should be even better.

 

If you say you are starting AWE with command structure gameplay and (bonus) Zeused opfor,

without any mods whatsoever, playing simply on normal I&A, I would be game anyday.

 

EDIT: "no mods whatsoever" except for using the coms obviously.., but hey: even vanila voicechat system can be used, even tho its not ideal

 

my 2c

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Hey Guys,

   Have we had any more progress or thoughts about EU3 or AWE i have been trying to get back into Arma of Late but the fact that for some reason i cant even play vanilla properly isnt helping lol so i did a delete and reinstall no help and i am no won the developmental  version which works with varying sucess mostly not for long before it crashes!  But i still have to say i really miss the teamwork and banter of EU3and the friends i made playing on there.

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1 hour ago, Vlk said:

Is the server coming online anytime soon ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Soon

 

It wont be coming until at least after the Contact Update from what i understand, plus there's still some testing to do after that I believe.

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