I&A 4 Beta Test Feedback

[Ryko]

Pardon me. The laser designator is removed. The camera is still there, and if it isn't working for you that's another matter entirely...

[Ryko]

  Moved this over here as it's relevant to the mission generally

 

3 hours ago, Stanhope said:

Some ideas:

• Remove the perverse incentive from vortex

Currently it's in Vortex' best interest to fly leisurely to the AO and speed back to base.  As vortex gets points when flying people around.  Instead have vortex earn points by dropping people of near an objective (maybe with a multiplier for distance to the objective) and for bringing them back to base. 

 

You're not wrong, but I think you run this risk of creating a different perverse incentive for Vortex to plant people as close to the center of the objective as possible.  I haven't heard a lot of complaints about pilots being slow to drop players at the objective.  I already have to deal with pilots who complain about how they shouldn't be held responsible for the loss of an airframe when they're killed by enemy fire.

 

Quote

• Introduce a kill assist mechanic

Currently you can do 99% of the damage to a vehicle but if it blows up on its own after that you get no points.  At least with an assist mechanic (e.g. a hit event handler that pushes back the players uid into an array that's set on server on the affected object with setvariable) you'd get some points. 

 

Well, this is already in place:

 

Spoiler

IA_fnc_rewardPointEH = {
    params ["_unit"];
    if ( isNil "_unit" ) exitWith {};
    
    _unit addMPEventHandler ["MPHit", {
        params ["_unit", "_causedBy", "_damage", "_instigator"];
        if ( local _unit && {isPlayer _causedBy || isPlayer _instigator} ) then
        {    if !(isNil "_instigator") then
            {    _unit setVariable ['lastHitPlayer', _instigator]; }
            else
            {    _unit setVariable ['lastHitPlayer', _causedBy]; };
        };
    }];
    
    _unit addMPEventhandler ["MPKilled", {
        params ["_unit", "_killer", "_instigator", "_useEffects"];
        if !( local _unit ) exitWith {};
        
        private ["_rewardPoints", "_type", "_modifier", "_reason"];
        _modifier = OpforSkill / 5;
        if ( _unit isKindOf "Man" ) then
        {    _rewardPoints = 25; _type = 0; _reason = "Infantry killed"; }
        else 
        {    if ( _unit isKindOf "Air" ) then
            {    _rewardPoints = 500; _type = 3; _reason = "Air vehicle destroyed"; }
            else
            {    _armorVal = getNumber (configfile >> "CfgVehicles" >> (typeOf _unit) >> "armor");
                _rewardPoints = 150; _type = 1;
                if ( _armorVal > 700 ) exitWith { _rewardPoints = 400; _type = 2; _reason = "Armor vehicle destroyed"; };
                if ( _armorVal > 200 ) exitWith { _rewardPoints = 250; _reason = "Light vehicle destroyed"; };
            };
        };
        _rewardPoints = ceil (_rewardPoints * _modifier);
        
        if ( isNil "_killer" && isNil "_instigator" ) exitWith
        {    _killer = _unit getVariable 'lastHitPlayer';
            if !( isNil "_killer" ) then
            {    if ( isServer ) then { [_killer, _rewardPoints, _reason, nil, true, true] call addRewardPoints; }
                else { [_killer, _rewardPoints, _reason, nil, true, true] remoteExecCall ["addRewardPoints", 2]; };
                _type remoteExecCall ["trackKill", _killer];
            };
        };
        
        if ( !(isNil "_instigator") ) then
        {    if ( isServer ) then { [_instigator, _rewardPoints, _reason, nil, true, true] call addRewardPoints; }
            else { [_instigator, _rewardPoints, _reason, nil, true, true] remoteExecCall ["addRewardPoints", 2]; };
            _type remoteExecCall ["trackKill", _instigator];
        }
        else
        {    if !(isNil "_killer" ) then
            {    if ( isServer ) then { [_killer, _rewardPoints, _reason, nil, true, true] call addRewardPoints; }
                else { [_killer, _rewardPoints, _reason, nil, true, true] remoteExecCall ["addRewardPoints", 2]; };
                _type remoteExecCall ["trackKill", _killer];
                };
            };
        };
    }];
};

 

So this is your kill assist feature; when a unit is Hit by a player, a variable is set on that unit that marks who was the last person to hit it.  When the unit is killed, if Arma can't detect who the killer was (the vehicle died due to arma physics, or a cook-off, or whatever) then it should reference the 'lastHitPlayer' variable and award reward points to that player.  But as you and others are experiencing, that's not happening.

 

The local unit checks are necessary because the unit could be owned by the server or the headless client, and in an MPHit or MPKilled situation, the code is run on all connected clients.

[Johnson]

6 hours ago, Ryko said:

but for vehicles Arma is a lot more tricky

Not an ideal solution but could it recognise if you kill certain units - say crew members - and have them valued at a much higher score. Obviously not ideal and comes with its own problems, but the vehicles are only as good as the crew inside them after all. If a player disabled a MBT and then killed the crew after they bailed, he would be rewarded for his efforts 

[Art3misZA]

Can you have the markers for all active objectives show like the previous version and not only show when it’s been assigned? I get that we need map awareness and all that but while traveling, if one stumbles across the side mission or something and dies it wastes time and resources. 
 

This also helps in objectives being completed more effectively as all players are aware of active tasks at all times.

 

Also I am not a fan of how the map currently works in terms of markers for vehicles and infantry. The previous one feels a lot a cleaner and easier to use. I didn’t even use the map yesterday because it didn’t offer me anything beneficial as markers seem to fade fast and EI are not marked. 
 

My reason for bringing these points up is that you have a lot of new and casual players on EU1 and these small things plus the increased difficulty of missions makes it frustrating and will probably result in teamkills, players not wanting to play due to frustration with mechanics and difficulty etc.

 

To be honest, I still have a better, more fun gaming experience on the old version because it’s simpler and I enjoy clearing buildings of EI. Please put EI hiding in buildings again!

 

The aspects I do like are the point system and the more structured main objectives with tasks to complete.

 

Would I play this version instead of the old one if presented a choice, especially as a relatively new player? No. I was frustrated, annoyed that I kept dying trying to get out of the old AO because infantry don’t despawn, annoyed that I kept getting one shot by EI over 700m away.... 

 

I think AW need to look at what, ultimately they want from this. Is it for the experienced players, to offer a challenging experience? Is it for the casual players? Will newer players stick around, eduring the more challenging aspects and dying often to master the new version?

 

This is a long post and I am sorry but the TL:DR version is - would players play this over 3? 

 

 

 

 

[Art3misZA]

Ah one more thing. When running. Betas, you should see how long players stick around. Do they log in for half an hour and then leave or do they stay? How does this compare to the same time period running version 3? This will give the best indication if players are having a good time.

[Ryko]

Hi Art3misZA,

 

Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts down.

 

7 hours ago, Art3misZA said:

Can you have the markers for all active objectives show like the previous version and not only show when it’s been assigned? I get that we need map awareness and all that but while traveling, if one stumbles across the side mission or something and dies it wastes time and resources. This also helps in objectives being completed more effectively as all players are aware of active tasks at all times.

 

I think you're referring to the server difficulty changes which fade the task markers as opposed to a vanilla regular setting of keeping the task markers visible at all times.  There's a good argument to be made that they should remain on a casual server, and we could have faded markers on a more hard-core (EU2) server; I'll pop that question to our admin team for their thoughts.

 

My feeling was to go with the faded task markers to clear the HUD of clutter; If we went this way, it would mean that you would also see that secondary mission that's 18 kilometers away.

 

7 hours ago, Art3misZA said:

Also I am not a fan of how the map currently works in terms of markers for vehicles and infantry. The previous one feels a lot a cleaner and easier to use. I didn’t even use the map yesterday because it didn’t offer me anything beneficial as markers seem to fade fast and EI are not marked. My reason for bringing these points up is that you have a lot of new and casual players on EU1 and these small things plus the increased difficulty of missions makes it frustrating and will probably result in teamkills, players not wanting to play due to frustration with mechanics and difficulty etc.

 

My intention here was to remove the godlike ability the player has to know where all enemy infantry are, and exactly where and how they are moving, by simply opening the map.  As well, it would force the player to perform some level of target acquisition and keep them in the game world rather than flipping back and forth to the magic map; the targeting functionality (while, admittedly, not perfect) is meant to bridge the gap, but clearly, it's not used enough to do so.  My hope was that this was just something that would be adopted over time.

 

The reason the markers fade over thirty seconds is because they are statically marked, and over time it becomes misleading to think there is infantry in a certain place when they would have moved away from where they have been marked.

 

It's hard to say whether this has resulted in more teamkills; my impression is that there is an equivalent amount between 3 and 4. 

 

7 hours ago, Art3misZA said:

To be honest, I still have a better, more fun gaming experience on the old version because it’s simpler and I enjoy clearing buildings of EI. Please put EI hiding in buildings again!

 

I should note that EI do garrison in buildings.  The difference between 3 and 4 is that they will leave the building if they are shot at.  It makes no sense to glue the infantry to buildings when they are being attacked, and in addition, it has led to cases where players are absolutely certain they have cleared a town when they have not found that trio of enemy infantry that are stuck in a building.  This way, they will leave a building and engage, leading to a completion of the AO.

 

7 hours ago, Art3misZA said:

I was frustrated, annoyed that I kept dying trying to get out of the old AO because infantry don’t despawn,

 

Infantry used to despawn, until there was some hue and cry about how unrealistic it was, especially when people where about to kill an EI and it would disappear in front of them.  Keeping them in the AO makes it a bit more challenging, especially as that EI now gets a move order to go to the next AO.

 

7 hours ago, Art3misZA said:

annoyed that I kept getting one shot by EI over 700m away.... 

 

No amount of coding is going to stop that from happening, that's just Arma.  I have made some skill changes to the EI to be in line with difficulty settings present in IA3, and I have seen it result in cases where the AI gets into battles they clearly should have won, only to get shot by a player.  The logic I've seen with Arma is that if you're being shot at by an EI, it is time to reposition, as they will get more accurate over time.  You are literally dueling with an aimbot!

 

7 hours ago, Art3misZA said:

I think AW need to look at what, ultimately they want from this. Is it for the experienced players, to offer a challenging experience? Is it for the casual players? Will newer players stick around, eduring the more challenging aspects and dying often to master the new version?

 

You're wise to ask this question, and it's a question I ask myself every beta test.  Nothing is set in stone, and changes are being made all the time to adjust to the majority of the player base; especially the parameter settings of the mission that will play on our flagship server (EU1) where casual play is the intention.

 

One of the hardest things is to decide what features are "too hard" for a casual player and should be removed, versus what features are too useful or good and you just want the players to adapt to it.

 

Again, thanks for your comments, and I welcome discussion on any of these points.

[Stanhope]

Bug: ejection seats don't work. 

[Ryko]

38 minutes ago, Stanhope said:

Bug: ejection seats don't work. 

double tap V or scroll wheel eject option?

[Stanhope]

Neither, the sequence starts, the canopy is ejected but the ejection seat, a new vehicle that needs to be created, never fires. 

[Ryko]

How are you triggering the sequence

[Stanhope]

Double tapping V

[Art3misZA]

Thanks for your time in answering me, Ryko!

[Jonas]

After closing the game down using ALT+ F4 my bought reward items are now gone(weapon and laser designator). The reward points I earned stayed however.

[Minipily]

Can confirm on the ejection seats.

 

When I got hit and tried to bail out, the canopy got ejected but I was just stuck sat in the plane all the way down to the drink.

[Stanhope]

Bug: Enemy CAS as well as an enemy MBT spawned in reaction of me driving to the AO.  The AI couldn't possibly know about my position because I was 6k out of the AO.  Same happened to someone else, just only an MBT, not a neo. 

 

Mild annoyance: main objective tasks spawned as assigned instead of created.  Meaning that if you manually assigned yourself the side mission you'll have to reassign it every time an AO spawns.  Not a big issue, just an annoyance but one that is very easy to fix.

 

And lastly (for this reply) the rules related to CAS need to be revised.  The current rules are made for I&A3, where CAS is an uncommon occurrence.  Now it's rather common.  Meaning that you'll run into situations more where infantry have driven half an hour to a side objective only for the commander who's sitting comfortably at base to tell the wipeout to just level the side objective, taking away from the enjoyment from the people who are actually playing the mission. 

[Stanhope]

I lied earlier, just encounter another bug:

 

I'm the only one in the vehicle, yet the vehicle isn't empty enough to be locked?

[Jonas]

Enemy artillery will target a player until either the arty gets destroyed or the player dies. Maybe have a limited ammount of shells per target or a max amount of time a player will be targeted by artillery

[Stanhope]

Another bug: vehicles aren't being cleaned up.  Leading to there being no vehicles in base for people to use. 

 

Edit: another bug: the server FPS displayed under performance in the admin screen shows client FPS, not server FPS as it says. 

 

Edit edit: markers placed via zeus can't be edited or deleted in zeus, they become player placed markers

 

Edit edit edit:

Reinf paratrooper didn't get new waypoints for the new AO, this are his waypoints from the last AO

 

Edit edit edit edit:

Enemy ambient spawned *rather close* to base:

 

Edit edit ah I lost count already:

It's a common occurrence for ambient to spawn in in response to friendlies that they can't possibly know about. 

 

Edit^∞ :

All the enemy reinforcements were killed yet the defend objective didn't complete

 

Edit^∞+1 :

 

Manual spawned Kill HVT mission spawned with task and marker for supply cache

Edited November 4, 2020 by Stanhope

[Ryko]

2 hours ago, Jonas said:

After closing the game down using ALT+ F4 my bought reward items are now gone(weapon and laser designator). The reward points I earned stayed however.

Reward items are tied to the role you occupied when you bought them; if it's a Sniper-specific rifle, then you'll only find that weapon in the arsenal when you re-occupy the sniper role.  If it's a general weapon (like the AK-12, for example) then it should be available for any role you occupy.  It's worth asking if that's the case before assuming there's a bug.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Bug: Enemy CAS as well as an enemy MBT spawned in reaction of me driving to the AO.  The AI couldn't possibly know about my position because I was 6k out of the AO.  Same happened to someone else, just only an MBT, not a neo. 

 

Likely these are both ambient AI spawns, reflecting the fact that the entire country is a dangerous place.  I'm also assuming the enemy has access to satellites, UAVs, etc, which means they have good visibility on player vehicles.  That said, if you're finding that ambient is too frequent, then it can be toned down.  Once AOs are secured, they become zones where ambient AI cannot spawn, so if you want to be safe (at least from enemy ambient land vehicles), drive through secured zones.

 

Also - recall that not all enemies de-spawn after the completion of an AO, so it is also possible you are encountering vehicles that are not in the immediate engagement area of the AO, or vehicles that have spawned in relation to other players.  Unless you have specific knowledge to know that enemies are spawning specifically to you...

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Mild annoyance: main objective tasks spawned as assigned instead of created.  Meaning that if you manually assigned yourself the side mission you'll have to reassign it every time an AO spawns.  Not a big issue, just an annoyance but one that is very easy to fix.

 

I am 99% sure I am creating tasks as CREATED rather than ASSIGNED, but I'll check.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

And lastly (for this reply) the rules related to CAS need to be revised.  The current rules are made for I&A3, where CAS is an uncommon occurrence.  Now it's rather common.  Meaning that you'll run into situations more where infantry have driven half an hour to a side objective only for the commander who's sitting comfortably at base to tell the wipeout to just level the side objective, taking away from the enjoyment from the people who are actually playing the mission. 

 

Not sure how this is different from current rules, which require ground forces to authorize CAS strikes.  Is there a specific rule on IA3 that prohibits one player from authorizing CAS against targets when other players don't want it?

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

I'm the only one in the vehicle, yet the vehicle isn't empty enough to be locked?

Could be because you're not in the driver's seat, I will check.  Not a great hint, either way.

 

1 hour ago, Jonas said:

Enemy artillery will target a player until either the arty gets destroyed or the player dies. Maybe have a limited ammount of shells per target or a max amount of time a player will be targeted by artillery

That's true, but I would suggest that players in the reverse situation would probably not be as kind to OPFOR...

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Another bug: vehicles aren't being cleaned up.  Leading to there being no vehicles in base for people to use. 

 

Next version will feature a glorious overhaul of vehicle spawning, which hasn't gotten any love since beta 36.  It's particularly bad this version.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Edit: another bug: the server FPS displayed under performance in the admin screen shows client FPS, not server FPS as it says. 

Uh not sure that's true, but I'll check.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Edit edit: markers placed via zeus can't be edited or deleted in zeus, they become player placed markers

This is known, because you're creating a new zeus module every time you enter zeus.  It's on my list.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Edit edit edit: Reinf paratrooper didn't get new waypoints for the new AO, this are his waypoints from the last AO

They get a search and destroy waypoint when they land, if there's nothing there when they land, it will end with nothing. They will react to players through standard AI.  If the AO completes, they'll be swept up into a move waypoint to the next AO.

 

I'll check, I think they're supposed to get a move waypoint after the search and destroy waypoint, but generally, they land pretty close to the action so I've never really bothered.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Enemy ambient spawned *rather close* to base:

I can only move the goal posts so much.  That's 1.4 km from player spawn

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

It's a common occurrence for ambient to spawn in in response to friendlies that they can't possibly know about. 

See above.  Ambient spawns consider all players to reflect the idea that there are loads of OPFOR on the entire map, not just in the AO.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

All the enemy reinforcements were killed yet the defend objective didn't complete

On a counter attack mission, the mission is on a timer, not simply a slay all enemies condition, because players aren't omniscient to know when they have killed the last dude.  The mission notifies players that they have to secure the area for X minutes, and when the timer completes, the next AO spawns.  Players in the AO actually get several notifications indicating how much time is left.  Technically if there are more enemies than players in the AO when the mission completes, OPFOR should retake the AO, but I can't be bothered and it would probably slow down the game.

 

If it went for more than 15 minutes without completing, then there's a bug somewhere.

 

1 hour ago, Stanhope said:

Manual spawned Kill HVT mission spawned with task and marker for supply cache

The possibility to spawn chosen specific side missions was added hastily and with no documentation, technically you need to pause side mission spawning before launching the side mission you want or else things can get messed up.

[Stanhope]

6 minutes ago, Ryko said:

Not sure how this is different from current rules, which require ground forces to authorize CAS strikes.  Is there a specific rule on IA3 that prohibits one player from authorizing CAS against targets when other players don't want it?

Ground forces is ambiguous, who are groundforces?  Anything but vortex, reaper and talon?  Are hammer & gambler groundforces?  Do the groundforces have to be at the objective to call in cas? 

 

We don't have those issues with I&A3 because of how relatively uncommon CAS is. 

[Jonas]

5 minutes ago, Ryko said:

Reward items are tied to the role you occupied when you bought them; if it's a Sniper-specific rifle, then you'll only find that weapon in the arsenal when you re-occupy the sniper role.  If it's a general weapon (like the AK-12, for example) then it should be available for any role you occupy.  It's worth asking if that's the case before assuming there's a bug.

I was playing as engineer using the SPAR-17 with a suppressor and a laser designator before and after relaunching the game I was engineer again now without the SPAR-17, the suppressor and the laser designator. So it wasn't bec of a different class selection. 

[Stanhope]

Ammo crates dropped by vortex aren't being cleaned up: these 3 crates have been at the salt flats base since I logged on at least 2 hours ago now

 

 

 

Edit: Rewards are being unlocked twice and showing up in the (unordered) list twice:

Edited November 4, 2020 by Stanhope

[Pickle]

I was playing alone this morning as AT infantry, using Hunter HMG and enemy CAS jets spawned on me 3 times. Yeah it is interesting when one jet come up to kill you but I don't enjoy much when same neo keeps spawning again and again untill I leave hunter and never hop in back. Also same goes for the CAS and CAP jets. It doesn't always happen but, the moment they take off, a stealth Shrika spawns already flying at center of map. Also it directly attacks CAP and CAS without even using its active radar. I understand that it is because of the ambient but how fast an enemy jet could be when NATO jet starts engine, they notice that with their radars, UAVs or satellites and take off before the NATO jet that is already in process of taking off? how it can live track NATO jet without even using radar?. What Im saying is, it should take some time for enemy to take off their CAP jets, also their CAS jets shouldn't spawn over only 1 hunter with 1 infantry inside.

 

Another problems are about newbies. As I was also a newbie, I can understand their mindset, they just want biggest and coolest guns in game. So the first thing they do is occupying CAS slot and trying to control a jet that they never tried before and blowing up the jet while taking off. And then CAP jet follows the same fate. just because a newbie (there are alot of newbies btw) wanted to play with cool guns we won't have access to jets for another 1 hour. Just only this morning 4 different newbies hopped in CAS jet blew it up in average of 2 minutes and then disconnected. So basicly life time of CAS jet was shorter than 10 mins in last 4 hours. What Im suggesting as solution is, either make jet respawn times much more shorter or find a way to discourage random people from using those assets, like paying X amount of points to occupy the slot.

 

Also each player should be allowed to lock the reward vehicle they bought. It is so unpleasant how other players occupy other crewman slots and hopping in the vehicle you bought and giving you orders, or begging you to come back to base and pick them up. Not even mentioning people who threw tantrum in side chat because the other crew members didn't want to share their vehicle.

 

Apart from that IA4 has an interesting style and making me enjoy the game.

[Minipily]

May I recommend if possible, that the aircraft are given a much shorter respawn time if they crash in base and haven't left said base first?

 

This would help because I've noticed a few times, newbie pilots or just people wanting to mess around, taking aircraft and crashing them in base before they have a chance of even leaving the base area and heading to battle.

 

It could be made that if an aircraft is still within the zone area of the base and hasn't left said zone, the respawn timer would be short (incase of an accident) and when the aircraft leaves said zone, the timer is restored to default so if an aircraft dies in combat or upon landing, it is treated as a usual event and given its usual respawn timer.

 

Not sure if this has already been suggested or not, just figured it may be a neat idea to stop pilots waiting an hour for an aircraft that never left the taxiway.

[Ryko]

4 hours ago, Berker said:

it should take some time for enemy to take off their CAP jets, also their CAS jets shouldn't spawn over only 1 hunter with 1 infantry inside.

 

Yeah, that's not intended behaviour, I think you got unlucky with ambient AI.  Remember that the mission also attempts to simulate that the entire country is occupied by the enemy, not just the AO.  But three enemy air spawns is definitely not my intention there.

 

4 hours ago, Berker said:

What Im suggesting as solution is, either make jet respawn times much more shorter or find a way to discourage random people from using those assets, like paying X amount of points to occupy the slot.

Unfortunately this is the nature of a public, casual server; we don't whitelist slots, anyone is welcome to play any slot on a first-come, first-served basis.  We have guidelines in place to suggest that players learn to fly offline, but we can only kick for wasting assets, and we have no intention to create any kind of system which segregates players.

 

That said, I appreciate the point you're making, and I like the idea of reducing a respawn timer for vehicles that die within the limits of a friendly base.

 

4 hours ago, Berker said:

Also each player should be allowed to lock the reward vehicle they bought

Reward vehicles are spawned as locked to the player that bought them.

 

4 hours ago, Berker said:

It is so unpleasant how other players occupy other crewman slots and hopping in the vehicle you bought and giving you order

Are you talking about an "armor commander" in your group doing this?  I mean, I can't possibly regulate how players choose to play their roles.  I think the only thing I can suggest here is that you offer some kind of suggestion for how to alleviate this situation.

 

Right now, any group leader can lock their vehicle, as long as it's a land vehicle; air vehicles can't be locked as you could create problems transporting players, and attack vehicles don't have enough seats to justify locking.

 

1 hour ago, Minipily said:

a much shorter respawn time if they crash in base and haven't left said base first?

Yup, I like it and it's implemented.  I can't distinguish between a bad landing and a combat kill, so it's just going to have to be a generally hard exception case to try and capture base shenanigans.