new Player Mortars - Firebase Hammer

[Jester]

Wok,

I was playing while you guys were giving mortar support and yes it was pretty cool. I think that having mortar support is a really good idea and useful as well, but I did see a problem with having so MANY mortars available.

 

It seemed a bit to OP.

 

I was playing medic and had the time to observe rather then seeking enemy out constanly between revives/heals. What I was seeing was way more mortar kills then actual gun fights. With 2-3 mortars it was wiping out full squads of enemy at a time. While this may be a good thing for getting them dead, it seemed as though the infantry units were spending more time just running around trying to find something to shoot at rather then actually getting to shoot at enemy.

 

I think maybe limiting the number of mortars or how many rounds they can fire is a must.

 

I can also see a problem this may cause when people who worry about their score start getting ahold of them. These types of people are just gonna keep lobbing mortars the whole game all over an AO trying to rack up their personal score.

 

That leads me to my next point. Mortars just plain out demolish everything. Beings how the structures do not rebuild themselves, once you level the cities/towns there is not going to be any cover for AI or players alike.

 

Lastly, I think that you should make it that whoever is on a mortar be either in TS or use in game mic to communicate rounds fired. I know when you are being shot at, the last thing you want to do is look at chat to see "round/s out".

 

These are just a couple of the things I noticed while playing and I am not saying I am against mortars. I just hope they get used responsibly and dont take away the fun factor of this mission.

[Cain]

Wok,

I was playing while you guys were giving mortar support and yes it was pretty cool. I think that having mortar support is a really good idea and useful as well, but I did see a problem with having so MANY mortars available.

 

It seemed a bit to OP.

 

I was playing medic and had the time to observe rather then seeking enemy out constanly between revives/heals. What I was seeing was way more mortar kills then actual gun fights. With 2-3 mortars it was wiping out full squads of enemy at a time. While this may be a good thing for getting them dead, it seemed as though the infantry units were spending more time just running around trying to find something to shoot at rather then actually getting to shoot at enemy.

 

I think maybe limiting the number of mortars or how many rounds they can fire is a must.

 

I can also see a problem this may cause when people who worry about their score start getting ahold of them. These types of people are just gonna keep lobbing mortars the whole game all over an AO trying to rack up their personal score.

 

That leads me to my next point. Mortars just plain out demolish everything. Beings how the structures do not rebuild themselves, once you level the cities/towns there is not going to be any cover for AI or players alike.

 

Lastly, I think that you should make it that whoever is on a mortar be either in TS or use in game mic to communicate rounds fired. I know when you are being shot at, the last thing you want to do is look at chat to see "round/s out".

 

These are just a couple of the things I noticed while playing and I am not saying I am against mortars. I just hope they get used responsibly and dont take away the fun factor of this mission.

There's a reason it's called a firebase and not just a mortar.

I would estimate 4 mortars would be the maximum limit, as in the firebase there's two little mini-pits and one larger pit, a mortar in the smaller ones, and two in the larger one.

Also, as Raz has said, the number of HE rounds fired will be limited. Also, I believe the mortars you witnessed were not what's going to be intended, as if I'm not mistaken there were no other round types. Its just that the mortars were re-enabled, I think. The way those mortars are reloaded are just that the gunner has to get out after firing 16 rounds, and assemble another mortar using fresh kit. This isn't whats going to happen, as it'd mean practically endless amounts of ammo.

Again, as Raz said, the mortar slots will most likely be closely monitored by admins to ensure no TKing or flat out area saturation of AOs. Experienced mortar gunners will not want to waste their ammo, and since the targets being given by the team/spotters are going to be priority targets most likely, there's no real reason for any gunner to start spamming their rounds, as they don't actually know where the enemies are. Firing on accurately marked targets will give them /more/ score than area saturation.

And since the server restarts every couple of hours, the buildings do sort of respawn. I can't count the times I've gone into Agia with a hunter-full of satchels to blow up the entire town, and then to come back a few hours later in the day and find them back to normal.

And it's not really fair to force people to use teamspeak or a microphone to be a certain class. In the TRU, perhaps, but not in the more casual servers such as the EU one I frequent. It may not be easy, but keeping an eye on the chatlog is a must, a majority of the players in the server will not be on mic. I've been both a frequent mortar gunner and pilot on the server, and nobody has found any real fault with just communicating via text. Yes it might be slower, but it still gives the info. And frankly, if you do start running into a fire mission, which is most likely marked on the map and communicated via chat, it's your own fault you're not seeing the messages. And it's probable that someone on mic will see these and warn you. This doesn't just apply to mortars, mind you. Friendly fire when assaulting urban AOs, captured Ifrits, set charges, etc. A lot of these are communicated via chat, and you should really be paying more attention if you find yourself dying a lot due to these.

I'm sorry, I get a little peeved sometimes when people say that teamspeak/voice comms is a must in certain situations that don't really need it.

[wok]

Wok,

I was playing while you guys were giving mortar support and yes it was pretty cool. I think that having mortar support is a really good idea and useful as well, but I did see a problem with having so MANY mortars available.

 

It seemed a bit to OP.

...............

 

I also think it was a little OP, I got like 40 kills in ten minutes. Have in mind mortars were just introduced and will probably be tweaked and changed in the near future. We basically had unlimited ammo, once we went out of rounds in a mortar we could just assemble another one fully loaded, When we moved closer to the AO we were only firing at marked targets, since we had limited rounds. So yea, there are things to change.

 

I have to agree that four mortars firing at the same places may have been too much, but think about a few mortar teams moving to different locations of the map and firing only on marked targets, then four is not that much, but I do think 4 should be the maximum. Three may be better, one stays in base and two moving.

[razgriz33]

working on a script to remove mortars from boxes or prevent them setting up

[wok]

working on a script to remove mortars from boxes or prevent them setting up

 

I think you can easily do that here https://bitbucket.org/ahoyworld/aw-invade-annex/src/5c67f75da077/gear/config.sqf?at=dev#cl-30 (line 30).

 

Replace it with something like:

vas_backpacks = ["B_AssaultPack_khk", "B_AssaultPack_khk_holder", "B_AssaultPack_khk_Ammo", "B_AssaultPack_khk_Medic", "B_AssaultPack_khk_Repair", "B_AssaultPack_dgtl", "B_AssaultPack_dgtl_AAR", "B_AssaultPack_dgtl_Spotter", "B_AssaultPack_rgr", "B_AssaultPack_rgr_AT", "B_AssaultPack_rgr_Medic", "B_AssaultPack_rgr_ReconMedic", "B_AssaultPack_rgr_Repair", "B_AssaultPack_sgg", "B_AssaultPack_sgg_ReconExp", "B_AssaultPack_sgg_ReconLAT", "B_AssaultPack_sgg_Spotter", "B_AssaultPack_blk", "B_AssaultPack_blk_DiverExp", "B_AssaultPack_blk_DiverTL", "B_AssaultPack_cbr", "B_AssaultPack_mcamo", "B_AssaultPack_mcamo_AA", "B_AssaultPack_mcamo_AAR", "B_AssaultPack_mcamo_Ammo", "B_AssaultPack_ocamo", "B_Kitbag_mcamo", "B_Kitbag_mcamo_Eng", "B_Kitbag_sgg", "B_Kitbag_cbr", "B_Bergen_mcamo", "B_Bergen_mcamo_AAA", "B_Bergen_dgtl", "B_Bergen_dgtl_AAT", "B_Bergen_dgtl_Exp", "B_Bergen_khk", "B_Bergen_khk_AAA", "B_Bergen_khk_Eng", "B_Bergen_rgr", "B_Bergen_rgr_AAT", "B_Bergen_sgg", "B_Bergen_sgg_Exp", "B_Bergen_blk", "B_FieldPack_khk", "B_FieldPack_blk", "B_FieldPack_blk_DiverExp", "B_FieldPack_blk_DiverTL", "B_FieldPack_ocamo", "B_FieldPack_ocamo_AA", "B_FieldPack_ocamo_AAR", "B_FieldPack_ocamo_Medic", "B_FieldPack_ocamo_ReconMedic", "B_FieldPack_oucamo", "B_FieldPack_oucamo_AAR", "B_FieldPack_oucamo_ReconExp", "B_FieldPack_oucamo_Spotter", "B_FieldPack_cbr", "B_FieldPack_cbr_AAT", "B_FieldPack_cbr_Ammo", "B_FieldPack_cbr_AT", "B_FieldPack_cbr_Repair", "B_Carryall_ocamo", "B_Carryall_ocamo_AAA", "B_Carryall_ocamo_Eng", "B_Carryall_oucamo", "B_Carryall_oucamo_Exp", "B_Carryall_khk", "B_Carryall_cbr", "B_Carryall_cbr_AAT", "B_OutdoorPack_blk", "B_OutdoorPack_tan", "B_OutdoorPack_blu", "B_HuntingBackpack", "B_AssaultPackG", "B_AssaultPackG_AAR", "B_AssaultPackG_Eng", "B_BergenG", "B_BergenG_Medic", "B_BergenC_red", "B_BergenC_grn", "B_BergenC_blu", "Bag_Base", "B_AssaultPack_Base", "B_Kitbag_Base", "B_Bergen_Base", "B_FieldPack_Base", "B_Carryall_Base", "B_OutdoorPack_Base", "B_BergenC_Base"];

That's the most complete list I could find on google, just make sure you don't include B_Mk6Mortar_Support and B_Mk6Mortar_Wpn.

[razgriz33]

Fixed, will now be able to read the rest of your feeback in a little more ease

 

edit: that's exactly what i did but not to that extent, i did it manually, not added al lbackpacks to save time

[razgriz33]

@cain your post is perfect

-that stuff was not intended

-I will strongly vote against limiting who gets the slot, look at all the amazing pilots we got from not doing that

-Text chat is used in the real world too, Even JTACs directing A10 will use messages sometimes

 

keep your feedback as a gunner/reciever coming in since the fix.

 

I have heard 4 mags of HE is too many for 30 minutes, will see what the others say too

[Mach2k5]

"REPEAT" is used only in fire missions, repeating designated pre planned fire missions for e.g.:

 

REPEAT FIRE MISSION "Mike Delta 101" or REPEAT FIRE MISSION "Mike Hotel 766"

 

Also

 

During fire mission the Pro Word REPEAT is used to fire the same volleys again using the same sheaf and amount of rounds.

 

Otherwise REPEAT is never EVER USED!!!

Also do at the moment bare in mind that Stratis is only 20Km2 the BETA Map is 270 Km2

[Cain]

@cain your post is perfect

-that stuff was not intended

-I will strongly vote against limiting who gets the slot, look at all the amazing pilots we got from not doing that

-Text chat is used in the real world too, Even JTACs directing A10 will use messages sometimes

 

keep your feedback as a gunner/reciever coming in since the fix.

 

I have heard 4 mags of HE is too many for 30 minutes, will see what the others say too

Thank you. 

 

No problems, I'm actually attending the game night today, and I'll be checking back later on to give more feedback.

Also with the 4 mags of HE per 30 minutes, I'm not too sure. 32 rounds per 30 minutes sounds ok, but maybe not for every mortar. If there'd be a way to have a sort of 'group ammunition' for all the mortars at the firebase, not a separate ammo stack for each mortar, then you could tweak it a bit to maximize efficiency of the mortars, because if each of the, lets say four, mortars gets 4 mags per 30 minutes, that's 128 total.

I'd like to have a go at it myself to see exactly what's going on with it all.

 

Edit: Are the new mortars disabled for now? I'm using the gunner slot and to be honest I have no idea how to find/assemble the mortars at the new firebase.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Cain

[wok]

4 rounds every 30 minutes is too few in my opinion, talking about explosive rounds, not smoke and flares. I think 12 - 16 (HE) rounds every 30 minutes could be a good number, with 2 mortars that's just 8 rounds each, that way the gunner wont run out of rounds after just a few targets, but will also have to keep on eye on what he fires since 8 rounds can be fired in just a minute, and if someone decides to just spam mortars anywhere they will be able to do it for a very short period of time until they are out of rounds.

[Cain]

4 rounds every 30 minutes is too few in my opinion, talking about explosive rounds, not smoke and flares. I think 12 - 16 (HE) rounds every 30 minutes could be a good number, with 2 mortars that's just 8 rounds each, that way the gunner wont run out of rounds after just a few targets, but will also have to keep on eye on what he fires since 8 rounds can be fired in just a minute, and if someone decides to just spam mortars anywhere they will be able to do it for a very short period of time until they are out of rounds.

Wok its 4 magazines, where a magazine is 8 rounds I think.

[wok]

Wok its 4 magazines, where a magazine is 8 rounds I think.

 

Oops my bad. Sorry, i never heard of a mortar magazine.

[Cain]

Oops my bad. Sorry, i never heard of a mortar magazine.

I don't know exactly what they're called, but lets leave it at magazines xD

[razgriz33]

correct, sorry for the scare there wok. Arma deals with things in magazines.and as cain says 8 rnd mags.

 

The mortars are not disabled when you tried, some idiot probably disassembled them, im not sure how to stop this...

[PVT_Ben]

Firebase trenchfoot feedback:

1)     The biggest problem is people using it without knowing what they are doing. Ive joined a number of times and found the mortars disabled and mortar bags littering the floor, where people have obviously been setting up their own mortars and getting infinite ammo. I don't know if this is possible, but if you could display a guidelines screen when someone joins as mortar gunner, maybe that would help. Something along the lines of: dont disable the mortars, you have X ammo which respawns every Y minutes, protocall for artillery firemissions is Z.

2)     Most people don't call in mortar targets. There are a select few I have found who will play spotter (big thanks to Edward in particular), but most of the time you can sit in a server for the whole game and not have a single mortar strike called in. Adding a dedicated mortar spotter to the mortar gunner team would solve this, and would also solve the problem of cluttering the side chat with mortar talk since you could then talk in group chat. It would work if you could then give point rewards to the spotter for calling in successful mortar strikes.

3)     4 mags (32 HE rounds total) is quite a lot, and is more than sufficient in my opinion. It's quite easy to get the top score as mortar gunner with that many rounds, which probably shouldn't be the case. Restricting rounds would make the gunner shoot only on targets that would actually require artillery support IRL, such as fortified positions, priority targets, large clusters of infantry and armoured vehicles, rather than just any group of enemies like at the moment.

4)     Mortar flares at night are frikkin awesome.

[razgriz33]

Thanks for the feedback ben.ill add a notification to the script. in the meantime i've noticed a large bug which i need to talk to Rarek about. However i think i have just though up a fix while writing this reply...

 

anyway will crack on and thanks for the feedback again

[PVT_Ben]

potential problem with the mortars,

it seems that if the HE mortar completely runs out of ammo it wont respawn ammo again, even well after 30 minutes has passed. I had this problem before and left after about 45 minutes of no ammo, Liabilities is currently on about 45 minutes too with no mortar ammo respawn. Respawn does still work as long as there is some ammo left. Also havnt tried this with the smoke mortar yet.

 

EDIT: Did reload eventually when i returned to the server later, but it took over an hour.

[razgriz33]

I had this problem once but after i reselected the slot and came back in the mortar was full, every 5 minutes now you should receive something in the vehicle text chat if it is working.

 

I was working on a fix for this and then i saw it worked again, looks like i should re-make the fix i was working on

[edward]

Good shootin ben, pretty much all the problems ive noticed. it would would be nice to get some kills on your spots. but not really sure how u could do that, seeing as ure just lookin at them. 

 

The satisfaction of watching things explode is going to have to be enough.

[kamaradski]

How about the location, any problems so far for it being so close to mike-26 ?

[noms]

Raz, as a suggestion for a temporary solution to the disassemble issue, perhaps a looping removeAction to remove the Disassemble option?

[razgriz33]

not sure if removeaction works for default actions, will test this at the weekend  

[Hoax]

As a desperate measure how about blocking off the stairs?  So only an MH9 can drop the gunner in there, hopefully ensuring no idiots disassemble it.  Not an elegant solution though.

[noms]

not sure if removeaction works for default actions, will test this at the weekend  

I've seen it done in Arma 2 when they've removed repair and heal scripts from the default actions, if you're unsure on where to start out should take a look at some scripts on insurgency maps for Arma 2

[Cain]

As a desperate measure how about blocking off the stairs?  So only an MH9 can drop the gunner in there, hopefully ensuring no idiots disassemble it.  Not an elegant solution though.

You could do what I do when I'm mortar gunner, and absolutely surround the firebase with APERS mines. 

Hehe.